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"Real World" Alien contact???


nickc
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Hi All,

I was driving to work this morning listening to 1089 talk sport,[uK] when the newsreader announced,and i quote.

"Scientists today have announced the detection of a radio signal from space believed to have originated from Alien life about 30 million light years from Earth."

 

Well as I am sure you can all imagine I was absolutely shocked and almost crashed my car in the excitement.Of course when checking on the internet the signal is almost definately not from intelligent life.[but hey for a couple of hours I was ??? well, you can guess.]

 

Here is the article on SETI. :cheers:

 

 

September 2, 2004:

 

A rash of reports in recent days that SETI@home has discovered a likely signal from an alien civilization are highly exaggerated, says SETI@home Chief Scientist Dan Werthimer of U.C. Berkeley.

 

The storm was initiated by an article in New Scientist magazine, which reported about SETI@home’s most promising candidate signal to date, and speculated about its possible origins. Like all of SETI@home’s 5 billion potential signals, this candidate, labeled SHGb02+14a, was assigned a numerical score representing the statistical likelihood that it is indeed an intelligent extraterrestrial signal. Its relatively high score placed it among the 200 “top candidates” selected for the targeted reobservation sessions that took place in March of 2003 at the Arecibo Radio Observaotry. Of all the candidates targeted in the sessions, however, SHGb02+14a was one of the very few to be confirmed during the reobservations, and the only one whose score following the sessions actually went up.

 

While this makes SHGb02+14a interesting, the chances that it actually represents an intelligent signal from beyond remain extremely slim. Random chance alone would make it probable that at least one of the billions of candidates detected by SETI@home would be observed on three separate occasions, as was the case for this candidate. Furthermore, as we reported in the SETI@home Update of May 17, 2004, the fact that this candidate’s frequency drifts rapidly makes it extremely improbable that it is a transmission from extraterrestrials. Because of the drift, explained Werthimer, “if we had looked at the sky even a few seconds later we wouldn’t have found a match” for this candidate. A signal that drifts so quickly that it can only be heard for seconds at a time at a given frequency can only be detected by blind luck. Needless to say, such a transmission is an unlikely vehicle for message from an advanced civilization.

 

At Arecibo the giant radio telescope still scans the sky, looking for an alien transmission. Around the world, millions are still crunching SETI@home data on their personal computers. The Search for extraterrestrial intelligence continues at full speed, but as of now there is no breakthrough.

 

Of course, this could change at any time… We promise to keep you posted.

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Interesting. And it points out how blind the scientists are. They have a preconceived notion that any signals of intelligence would have to appear in fashion x/y/z, and they discount anything outside that box. Of course the assumptions on what the signal looks like is based on our racial conceptions and experiences. For another race, if one exists, who is to say the signal will be in and around the frequency they keep looking at?

 

For example, numerous arguements have been made over the years as to what frequency would most likely contain any signs of alien life. Because certain people decided it is most likely around a certain band, we send out signals on that band and search in that area as well. We've concentrated our eggs in one basket, hoping that others elsewhere in the universe will think the same and hence we get the blind luck hit on their signal. When we see a strong varible signal, we discount it as no race would send out a signal in that fashion as anyone seeking contact would beam out a signal on one frequency to be noticed.

 

Now lets be an alien race. We argue over the likely frequencies to search and can't decide. To us it seems likely every band could be used by some other race so picking one over the others would limit our chances to find others in the universe. We determine the odds would be better if we start beaming out signals on a rapidly changing varible signal, hoping to attract someones attention while we scan the sky up and down the bands looking for a needle in a haystack. When we encounter a strong continious signal, we discount it as no race would send out a signal in that fashion and cut their chances of being detected since they have no idea what signal we would be looking for.

 

Oh well....

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Considering that SETI gets exactly $0.00 in government funding, that it is completely funded by donations and a large portion of the work is done on home computers that "Give up" computer time to the project. and that the folk doing the real work are mostly volenteers/students at the University of Berkley. It is an amazing thing that anything is getting done. The Hydrogen band is most hevily watched because there is less "noise" on that frequency band, Yes they make assumptions becasue they have to shrink down the amount of raw data somehow. There are more that 100,000 homce users that are doing work for SETI (me included). It may not be prefect but it is not a perfect world and we are all doing what we can do. I have processed about 1500 work units for SETI, most of which were done on older computers that required 10+ hour of processing to run, My current computer runs through a work unit in about 3.5 hours but I only do 1 or 2 a day. There are folks out there that ahve done 10 times that. Everyone knows that the odds are against us finding anything partialy because of all the unknowns, but at least we are doing something which increases out odds a great deal over doing nothing

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Didn't your good friend, Al Gore, invent SETI as something to make use of the internet he created?

 

I was merely pointing out the absurd nature of Chief Scientist Dan Werthimer discounting a signal merely because it fails to fit his criteria. Hey, it matched many of the criteria they are looking for. And they got the strong signal twice before discovering it's seems to be varible (and hence blind luck to detect). Perhaps something else is going on? Maybe the signal was constant and strong before and now is varible? Who knows. It's so close to what they are looking for. But of course if doesn't fit the narrow defintion. So, he discounts it. I would hope that behind the scenes they are looking at this one more closely to be sure of what it is (and he's just playing things down for the press).

 

Anyway, years ago I and a co-worker had had SETI on our work PC's (before they company installed some software to prevent such items from working). We also controlled some PC's used for work processing and some servers. We set up SETI on many of them up. I think we got through somewhere from 15-20,000 units. But, eventually we dropped SETI and moved on. Why? As you mention, the odds are low, OH so low, of anything ever being discovered. One could say the chances are the sun will go Nova before SETI pans out. And we figured, why waste our CPU's on that. There are other programs out there researching useful items like potential cures for cancer, human genome and DNA research, climate modeling, and others. Others with real potential to benefit everyone now. And we felt it was better to donate time to research that may actually generate useful results than keeping our heads in the sky.

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Didn't your good friend, Al Gore, invent SETI as something to make use of the internet he created?

 

I was merely pointing out the absurd nature of Chief Scientist Dan Werthimer discounting a signal merely because it fails to fit his criteria.  Hey, it matched many of the criteria they are looking for.  And they got the strong signal twice before discovering it's seems to be varible (and hence blind luck to detect).  Perhaps something else is going on?  Maybe the signal was constant and strong before and now is varible?  Who knows.  It's so close to what they are looking for.  But of course if doesn't fit the narrow defintion.  So, he discounts it.  I would hope that behind the scenes they are looking at this one more closely to be sure of what it is (and he's just playing things down for the press). 

 

Anyway, years ago I and a co-worker had had SETI on our work PC's (before they company installed some software to prevent such items from working).  We also controlled some PC's used for work processing and some servers.  We set up SETI on many of them up.  I think we got through somewhere from 15-20,000 units.  But, eventually we dropped SETI and moved on.  Why?  As you mention, the odds are low, OH so low, of anything ever being discovered.  One could say the chances are the sun will go Nova before SETI pans out.  And we figured, why waste our CPU's on that.  There are other programs out there researching useful items like potential cures for cancer, human genome and DNA research, climate modeling, and others.  Others with real potential to benefit everyone now.  And we felt it was better to donate time to research that may actually generate useful results than keeping our heads in the sky.

 

Al Gore!! now your fighting Dirty

I understod what you were saynig and In a lor of ways your right, however, Cancer research gets huge quntiteis of Federal funds, so much so that the person who finds a cure will be privatly hated by hundreds (if not thousand) of researchers becaue he/she put and end to the gravy train. (And their name will go down in history as one the the greats). The Human Genome project ended several years ago (not to say that all genitic reserach is done but the BIG push from the feds is over). Most of the other projects that are useing the same type of PTP research spliting are reasonably well funded, and anywy even if there is only a 1 in a billion chance of finding anything (assuming there is anthing to find) it is infinatly better odds than 1 in 0 which is what it would be if no-one even tried. Finally I have always been a believer that the longer the odds the greater the potential payoff, and think of the effect it would have on the entire human race if a signal was found. It would change everthing. Head in the sky? Always! :cheers::):unsure::D:alien:

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That's good to hear. It is the dreamers, the ones who keep reaching against the odds and critics (like Galileo or Columbus to name a few), that sometimes do get the big advances. :)

 

One thing though. Finding a signal, any signal, does it really have any meaning? Sure it would mean there is life elsewhere in the universe. But many people assume that already. For those that don't, proof of alien life could be life shattering. Many religons are based on the central premise that we are created in Gods image and are his chosen. To find a signal means those religons must reevaluate themselves and change. Some will be able to do so (likely under tha banner that God has many childern, a more enlightened philosophy). Others will self-destruct leading to cults, hatred, and even terrorism against the scientific community spreading these heathen lies.

 

And would the signal change life as we know it? No. We would still be concerned daily with ongoing wars, droughts, sporting events, hurricanes, serial killers, and reality TV shows, our jobs, our families, etcetera... all the things in life that keep folks attention. Oh sure, folks would talk about it for a bit. There would be headlines, and news stories and like for a few weeks. But then it would fade away and be forgotten. I can just imagine some researcher answering some reporters question about what this means and how soon will we be able to communicate with the other race. The dry answer drones on about light years of difference, round trip times in hundreds of years, no contact possible for yada, yada, yada... People focus on the here and now and the media responds. Any signal would be a mere flash in the pan. They media would say "Oops, time for the next world crisis, you scientist folks get back to us when you have something really interesting like a picture of the alien or something else. Until then, ta-ta".

 

Sorry to sound so negative. But that is reality.

 

Note that I wouldn't mind a bit of my taxes going to it. One proposal really has my interest. Building some space based telescopes that would allow us to focus on specific stars looking for potential planetary bodies. And when likely candidates are found, then sending continious signals in that system direction via some other equipment. IN other words, check out all the stars in the nearest 100 light years closely and if they have potential life bearing planets try to contact them. Hey, it would be a long shot (and long time for any response). And in the short term it would push us more into space and further develop space tech.

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For more info on Distributed computing i can advice the distributed teams of Ars Technica. I have been a member for many years and it always has been a lot of fun. We have teams in several projects: SETI, primes, cancer, protiens, encrypting, world climate etc.

 

Main website Ars Technica distributed teams

 

Ars Technica distributed forum

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That's good to hear.  It is the dreamers, the ones who keep reaching against the odds and critics (like Galileo or Columbus to name a few), that sometimes do get the big advances.  B)

 

 

 

One thing though.  Finding a signal, any signal, does it really have any meaning?  Sure it would mean there is life elsewhere in the universe.  But many people assume that already.  For those that don't, proof of alien life could be life shattering.  Many religons are based on the central premise that we are created in Gods image and are his chosen.  To find a signal means those religons must reevaluate themselves and change.  Some will be able to do so (likely under tha banner that God has many childern, a more enlightened philosophy).  Others will self-destruct leading to cults, hatred, and even terrorism against the scientific community spreading these heathen lies. 

 

 

 

And would the signal change life as we know it?  No.  We would still be concerned daily with ongoing wars, droughts, sporting events, hurricanes, serial killers, and reality TV shows, our jobs, our families, etcetera... all the things in life that keep folks attention.  Oh sure, folks would talk about it for a bit.  There would be headlines, and news stories and like for a few weeks.  But then it would fade away and be forgotten.  I can just imagine some researcher answering some reporters question about what this means and how soon will we be able to communicate with the other race.  The dry answer drones on about light years of difference, round trip times in hundreds of years, no contact possible for yada, yada, yada... People focus on the here and now and the media responds.  Any signal would be a mere flash in the pan.  They media would say "Oops, time for the next world crisis, you scientist folks get back to us when you have something really interesting like a picture of the alien or something else.  Until then, ta-ta".

 

Sorry to sound so negative.  But that is reality. 

 

Note that I wouldn't mind a bit of my taxes going to it.  One proposal really has my interest.  Building some space based telescopes that would allow us to focus on specific stars looking for potential planetary bodies.  And when likely candidates are found, then sending continious signals in that system direction via some other equipment.  IN other words, check out all the stars in the nearest 100 light years closely and if they have potential life bearing planets try to contact them.  Hey, it would be a long shot (and long time for any response).  And in the short term it would push us more into space and further develop space tech.

 

 

It's not very often that I get lumped in with some the great explorers :D Many thanks. And after such a nice compliment I hate to disagree with you that it would not have much of an effect. but there would be some signifigant changes. True most epople would not see much of a change right away. there would be a big Hulabaloo for a few weeks then something else would grab the headlines and , for the most part, it would get lost in the daily babble of things demanding the attention of the normal person,, But I know the minds of the Military and you would see a large increase in Space-based research. There would be extensive research on the signal and all kinds of work to determain the potential technology level of the civilization. If is is relitivley close (say less than 100 Light Years) If it is approxamatly the same as ours (plus or minus a bit) the Politicians will start funding general research to either catch up or to make sure we advance faster (can you imagine a cold war where one side does not even know what is going on) :lol: . There will be work done to decrease out own planetary EM emmsisions (so we do not get spotted, and so we do not give away too mucch of our own tech level).

 

 

Many relegons have already set the ground work just in case we do find another civilization, but others will have to make some adjustments. Any faith that claims that their faith is the only way and anyone that fails to follow that faith is doomed will have to change (Unless, of course, we discover that their relegion matches one of our own. FTFO). Can you imagine an Iman of Islam declairing a Jihad against an alien race that we have no real contact with :lol: or even better one that is more technoloicaly advanced than we are. There would definatly have to be some changes.

 

 

So while you are right that, for most people, very little would change early on but for researchers in Space science, Tech labs, Major defense contrators, Scientist and other researchers there would be asignifigant changes almost immediatly. for others, well reserach alway pays off, slowly more andmore people would be effected, and if governments are busy looking outward maybe (just maybe) we will stop hunting each other for a few years, (I am a realist I know it is unlikely and even if it did happen it would not last very long) :(

 

 

So unless we find out that an alien race wants only to land and take all our stuff. :D I see only good things from discovering a signal.

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I think you overrate what the military would want to do. They are concerned with viable threats. And a mere signal would not be a threat requiring huge outlays of money. One need only look at history and how changes in tactics and technology were often looked at with disdain and ignored by the military leaders of the time. They get stuck in the same mind set and limited perceptions of everyone. Now, I could see them mentioning a possible threat while seeking funding for some of the space based harware they really want. Just to get to last few votes needed for passage in congress. But of course the primary purpose will be more Earth based than anything. B)

 

As to religon, I just tried imagining a first meeting between races. The alien ship lands, the door opens, and out walks a huminoid shaped male, his face hard to make out through the long and large beard. He is followed several steps behind by two aliens covered head to toe in clothing, looking a great deal like the custom of hijab's of Muslim faiths. As the alien speaks to the crowd and translators convert it into dozens of languages, it is apparent the alien is talking about the wonders of his God and how he wishes to share those blessings on the unenlightened. Turns out first contact is with a Missionary, and he's come here to convert the heathens to the true faith (which happens to share much with Islam). Hmmmm ... sounds the the basis for a new show on Fox next year. :D

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A Missionary?!?!? That would be great, wouldn't that send the relegious fundimentalists up the wall, serve tham all right too! :lol:

 

The Director of NSA :D would have a threat assessment team assembled within 24 hours of confirming the signal. (that is if he does not have one already built). :D They would have a preliminary report to the Joint Chiefs on the table within a week and have it updated daily for the first few months (after that it would be weekly for about a year then monthly until contact). True most Generals are conservative to the point of Idiocy (it worked for the last war it will work fr the next one), but they are also politicians (you never make General Officer unless you are a politician first). They will see the advantage of building up the threat just so they can increase their budget. I am sure there are a whole host of new military "toys" that are on the shelf because there is no way to get them funded (can anyone say SDI). T.H.A.A.D (Theater High Altitude Air Defense. A High Energy ground based defensive system) will get signifigant additional funding almost immediatly. Furhter there are other nations that are far more paranoid than the U.S. :( Can you imagine the Military's reaction when China puts up a space -based laser system for "Planetary Defense". The US Military would have a cow right then and there, B) or how about the ESA sending up some space defenses. Friend or foe, ally or enemy the US will have to respond by building up its own space based defenses. There really will be no choice considering the current geo-political situation,

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Let's not forget all the business that would be generated with Internet scams. I can just imagine the spam's and scams now.

 

 

Send your greetings to our newest Neighbors, only $9.95 for 100 words

 

Get the real scoop on what's hidden in the signal the goverment won't tell you, only $19.95

 

We need your help to build a welcome space port for out newest friends, donations accepted.

 

 

OH, and lets not forget the rebirth of all the pseudo-sciences and like areas. They would have a wonderful time with all of this.

 

 

Using Astral Travel to converse with our Alien Neighbors, $29.95

 

Pyramid Power, You, and the Alien Connection, $19.95

 

Join the Intergalatic Church of Cosmic Awareness, donations accepted.

 

 

Come to think of it, there would be big bucks in this for those willing to fleece .. I mean .. help guide their fellow man in this brave new world. I think I'll go work on my web site and trade mark a few terms just in case. :D

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:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

 

OK that's enough! The folks at work alrady think I am nuts, you do not need to make it worse by making me laugh out loud so late at night. But wasn't it L. Ron Hubbard that said the onely way to really get rich in America was to start a relegon? And then set out to prove it! Hmmmm The Church of Universal Awareness, or maybe The Universal Church of Cosmic Brotherhood. I like it and to make sure I get all the $$ i can from tbe suckers (errm I mean converts) I will (through a secondary) start and anti-Church group that accepts donations to fight the growing cult, that way I will get everyone. :D Yea I am really starting to like it now. Anyone want to join early and help me set it up? sdainthood (or it's equuivlent) for the first 10 converts B)

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