Jump to content
Rolling Thunder Forums

Preplanning In Draco


richardjohns
 Share

Recommended Posts

In Draco shall we plan or complain later that we need changes because we did not plan?

 

When Andromeda started many people complained about not saving enough points, not knowing enough about colonization, research or combat and so many other things. People took advantage of the loop holes cycling leaders through different explore fleets, fleets that could hold more than they were supposed to and taking advantage of gates to not fight battles.

 

Now, I have been expanding and planning not only my staging areas for fleets, fuel, leaders and doing lots of statistics to back up what I am doing. I think ahead four to five years ahead not on tech but on logistics.

 

My questions are the following:

 

1. Should we change the game mechanics to help out those that are having a hard time planning?

 

2. Should we nerf certain rules because certain groups have gotten certain knowledge which is making them not slightly stronger but nearing the effects of pre-ice empires?

 

3. Draco requires us to have forward bases that reload fuel, fighters, drones, bombs, colony beacons, construction materials and etc. Should an empire have to pre plan almost a year to get those resources to that forward base? (FYI, I reduce my production at least 25% to do just that)

 

4. Draco requires warp point sentinels to stop faster empires. Should the AP be increased to stop these possible fast empires already closing on max AP?

 

5. Draco requires forward bases with the ability to build items to trade with other empires. What do you consider the distance a forward base would be from your home world be useful?

 

6. In Draco, is it worthwhile to do one point a turn research from your perspective?

 

7. Due to the slower AP and fuel issues, ships have less dominance for higher tonnage. Do you think that it is better to have a big fleet to control one point or lots of smaller ships to control multiple points?

 

8. In your opinion for enemy colonies, is it better to bomb, ground attack or a combination of ground attack, remove and replace them as colonists?

 

9. When finding another player, do you keep on moving forward scanning or stop?

 

10. What is a good amount of ground troops to have and I don't mean more is better?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"1. Should we change the game mechanics to help out those that are having a hard time planning?"
A bit of a vague question, but I think its the nature of the game to rewards forward planning.

"2. Should we nerf certain rules because certain groups have gotten certain knowledge which is making them not slightly stronger but nearing the effects of pre-ice empires?"
I have tried to address that by putting a lot of that sort of information in my pdf. But Supernova is a game of discovery. There are things I have discovered in Draco that are not in Andromeda.

"3. Draco requires us to have forward bases that reload fuel, fighters, drones, bombs, colony beacons, construction materials and etc. Should an empire have to pre plan almost a year to get those resources to that forward base? (FYI, I reduce my production at least 25% to do just that)"
Supernova is at its core a game of spreadsheets and planning.
"4. Draco requires warp point sentinels to stop faster empires. Should the AP be increased to stop these possible fast empires already closing on max AP?"
Wouldn't that just make the enemy faster too?
"5. Draco requires forward bases with the ability to build items to trade with other empires. What do you consider the distance a forward base would be from your home world be useful?""
If you are both setting up forward production facilities, then a third of the way to their HW makes sense.
"6. In Draco, is it worthwhile to do one point a turn research from your perspective?"
One point a turn is the most efficient long term, but multiple points lets you gain key technologies earlier. For example, gaining tech that increases your production earlier means all those extra turns with extra production.
"7. Due to the slower AP and fuel issues, ships have less dominance for higher tonnage. Do you think that it is better to have a big fleet to control one point or lots of smaller ships to control multiple points? "
Hopefully you won't be at war with people in every direction. At this stage, I would imagine one big fleet and lots of pickets would be best.
"8. In your opinion for enemy colonies, is it better to bomb, ground attack or a combination of ground attack, remove and replace them as colonists?"
Population is the most valuable resource, so BOMB should always be a last resort. If you can capture and defend a colony, invade, If you can capture but can't hold it long, invade and evacuate. If you get a fleet over the colony for just a turn, BOMB.
"9. When finding another player, do you keep on moving forward scanning or stop?"
I talk to them and work out a tentative border. Then keep going on other directions and repeat if you bump into them again. The nature of the map means the next system you find may lead into their territory again, or in the opposite direction.
"10. What is a good amount of ground troops to have and I don't mean more is better?"
For the time being, your HW is invincible. Your primary defences for your colonies are your fleet and the fact no-one knows how to find them. At this stage, I wouldn't be puttng a lot of production into ground troops.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The more you can plan and build as you go is a better thing then anything else but on the other hand do you plan for 8 jumps out or smaller on resupply for you can get back out on the same turn. This is my opinion on it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Greetings -

 

Several questions have been brought up that I would like to respond to, but not point by point or in order.

 

Firstly I must say that in this game, we as players, only know what we know. We have no way to predict what sort of curve ball Pete has prepared for us nor what other players may do. I have had many conversations with Pete about this change or that and many times it comes down to not being able to predict what inventive players will do in order to get a perceived advantage. Only Pete has a full view of everything and only he can determine if there is something that needs to be fixed. However I do find it useful to point things out to him as he won't be able to read every turn or see every issue that might pop up. Just don't expect the game to be perfect or that RTG sees and understands every nuance that players tease out of it.

 

This game is a game of choices to do or not to do. You can put all 25 RC's on one tech and get to really fast engines, at least for Draco, as soon as possible. That is great but you won't be able to build them and you won't have a broad industrial base or support tech to make them useful. If you choose the 1RC to tech approach you will have a broad base, but in the short term, especially early on you may be at a disadvantage. Face it, if you are 1 RC on your weapon of choice and your neighbor is 16 RC's you will be several generations behind in weapon tech. However this advantage is only an advantage at the moment. Getting there first is no advantage unless you can act on it. This is the best argument for turtling for a long time and waiting until you get to a certain tech level before venturing forth. Anybody who is devoting 16RC's to anything can tell you they have sacrificed a lot of other stuff to do it. In the short term it may be worth it, but every situation is different. There is also nothing to say any position can't switch to a 25 RC on a tech research program when the powerful neighbors are spotted. It is all a choice.

 

As for conquest, there is no need/requirement for any forward bases, ever. You can do everything with supply fleets, ship designs, weapon choices etc. but it might be easier or desirable to have a forward base but that can be as little as a pop group. I view a forward base as much more than a pop group with minimal population or none for the purpose of storing stuff like fuel, fighters and drones.

 

WP pickets fall into this category as well. They are very costly to put out there and are most often easily destroyed. Except for a HW system I can think of little benefit to having a large picket force. They are there for warning and to slow down the casual force. Now if there were specific weapons that were only used on orbiting platforms and were much larger, etc, etc. then that would change things a bit. However as it sits, they are not worth much. They are a bit more valuable in Draco since Gates and wormholes are gone, but still not too valuable in the long run. Certainly valuable as eyes and ears and a way to slow down unarmed or wimpy exploration fleets. they have nothing to do with enemy AP and so are not pat of the AP picture in my view.

 

 

Fleet mechanics in Draco are much the same as in Andromeda. The bigger more advanced fleet wins almost every time. The main difference in Draco is that shields are way tuned down so you can count on your ships being damaged and needing to spend time repairing. That means that even a victory can weaken a fleet substantially and then the next encounter with a much smaller force could spell the doom of the larger but damaged force. This is all to the good. However it will still force players to choose to be defeated in detail by spreading out assets or concentrating assets so they have the best possible chance of victory. slow fleets only make this choice much harder. A big fleet that is three away from the HW taking care of business will still be three away when the HW gets attacked and it may take 3 turns to get it back to defend the HW. This prevents any sort of rapid response no cavalry coming to the rescue etc. It also prevents one big fleet being used in multiple locations. By way of comparison my own Andromeda main battle fleets were usually built around a 50AP fleet minimum speed with scouting elements being in the 100-200 AP range, skimmers at 1000 AP.

 

Trade/gifting is another one of those options that players can choose to take advantage of or not. How you do it is up to you and there are a number of viable methods including the forward industrial base. in my view I would not build a production colony in most cases, but there are a couple of exceptions. I can expound on those if anybody is really interested. As far as distance goes I think distance is more relative to the WP cost of travel than actual distance. It is all about how many hops and how much fuel is needed. Methods are available, within the current rules that can move stuff back and forth across the galaxy in a single turn. It's just expensive and complicated.

 

On exploration I think it much depends on the nature of the position you run across and the routes through and around said position. I tend to press on if possible but that can also be a provocation to war. Just running into a single fleet does not mean you are on the doorstep.. That fleet may have slipped through a one way and be 20 hops from the HW so pulling back just because you found him may not be called for.

 

The ground troop question is not one that can be answered. Assuming the same tech the following force levels would be more or less equivalent

 

DEF .25 - 400 divisions

DEF 1 - 100 divisions

DEF 20 - 5 divisions

 

If you have taken a pathetic lifeform in order to get better RB then you will be falling in the .25 end of the spectrum while a standard human is a 1 and a troll with full regen and extras strength is in the 20+ category.

 

Don't forget the TAC ratings either. A force of 100 divisions only covering 4 TAC areas will do poorly against a smaller force of 40 that cover all tac ratings.

 

As to bombing colonies or not. The BOMB order is broken and who knows if it will ever get back to use. From a practical stand point though, pop is invaluable so why would you waste it. Bombing a pop group does not destroy the troops or the stuff stockpiled there so why do it. The only real use is to bomb a HW when you find they are in the 20 DEF category and you find yourself in the .25 end of things. Now you have made them mad and have no hope of ever conquering them on the ground. Then you might want to kill off as many pop as possible just so they can't come back and return the favor.

 

Finally, in my view the AP cap is too low and too much % of mass is required to get to multiple AP, even with the best engines you are still devoting a large % mass to engines. I don't agree with the cap or the reason for it, but it is what it is. However, it would be better all around if the engines were more efficient so that only 10% of mass or less is required to get to 8 AP from top engines. As it sits Nobody ever has to research engines at all. War fleets will be 1 AP since to do otherwise will send eggs to battle with 40-50% of mass in engines just to get 2-4 AP.. The defender sits back with 1 AP ships loaded with an extra 40% armor and it is all over but the singing.

 

 

:cheers::cheers:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's not true. SNROTE has ALWAYS changed when it needed to be. Some changes didn't quite work out so well for some. Some recent changes include the adding of several new installations and player request and adding bonuses to ground combat with the research of certain technologies.

 

What they say is true. You can never please everyone :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As I understand it, the main problem with high AP fleets from Steve's point of view is that it leads to huge convoy routes taking ages for the game to process. Maybe a compromise would be to limit the APs that can run through a convoy route each turn eg Union rules require all ship crews to have a rest after spending 10 APs running through a convoy route, while not limiting the APs of fleets run manually.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Convoy routes are very important for my colonies. I will increasing my colony world count by a lot (100+) by the end of the year and they requires lots of orders per turn. I am currently at 41. By limiting the amount of things that a convoy routes does would force me to pay more for my turns.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can offset the one high ap fleet with several fleets running to the same colony. I wiuld send fleet 1 turn, fleet 2 would start the following turn, etc etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...