Thors Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Funny, Prior to reading your post, it did dawn on me that I was being a bit hypocritical. It took some time, but it did occur to me about the "at war with ally scenario". Since there were no set guidelines to this special game, we all had some varying notions about it. My bit of "gray area" had to do with defensive mechanisms. I think most people will also have the inherent notion that if you're defending yourself, you'll do what is necessary to survive. IE: if an aggressor has you in a headlock, strangling you, biting their forearm to get out of it would not be a dirty trick. Yet aggressively grabbing someone's arm and biting it is altogether different, isn't it? And if you are down and the aggressor kicks you in the face, that is a dirty trick. Get it? The "at war to fly over" seemed a much lesser "evil" when it was intentioned in a defensive manner. Ireland did not attack Portugal; certainly not his home nation to force him out. I did not take Portugal's Ally request, as I thought he *may* have been insincere about working with Ireland. As I told you, Ireland and I would have been like dominoes had I not supported the fight. I came into 93 a sort of "newb". I did not form much in the way of opinions as to how the game should be played and what constituted sportsmanship and un-sportsman conduct. On one side of the people I TA'd with, I heard about "common tools" of manipulation within the game rules. Then I started hearing a more principled version. One player whom knew the mechanics of the game to extreme detail, held exceptionally high ethics about it, and he influenced me greatly as time went on. I heard all about the "Morale Bomb" which I had to agree was a dirty, unacceptable trick of the game; a perversion if you will. But... That too was also playing within the game rules! So where does one draw the line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reece Posted May 10, 2015 Report Share Posted May 10, 2015 Well I think we are beginning to see each others points. The game certainly has been a learning experience. I assume the sportsmanship mentor is DAG and agree that he often goes beyond what is required. In the current game he posted a note that he would defend GB so his position was clear. Most players would not have been so clear. Can't speak for others but I think the rules are the rules and that players can use any of them. They are there to ensure every player has the same potential. Everyone has rules that they dislike and would like to see changed or modified. This game was an attempt at that (Eliminated the TA from the PAP option). I think considering the longevity and maturity of the victory players we could probably even set up rules that aren't in the program. The vast majority would play by those conditions. Most players overestimate their enemy, that's why we both think the other has the advantage in Britain at the moment. Because of this perception its going to be hard to say which player is down unless its just clearly a lopsided engagement. In regards to integrity and honesty those are factors that you judge based on your interaction with a player. Did you have a peace agreement to turn 50. If so and one player attacks before turn 50 then he has broken his agreement. Certainly the double cross is within the game mechanics but it does show a lack of integrity and players judge that player by his actions. Have fun, RIck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coothunter Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 That is too bad that some of you are thinking of leaving Victory. As far as I can see, most people are playing within the rules. This is a vicious game. There have been games where people did the FP/DW/FP on me. Now, I guard against that tactic. Sometimes you are in a bad position and there is no realistic way out. That happens. Other times, things work out well and the game can be really fun. Because of the difficulties, it makes surviving a game quite an accomplishment. I have found this game to be fun. It is natural for countries to work together. If it is in their best interest, they should work together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthling Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 Just curious, how do people cheat at Victory!? The rules are the rules and they are coded. I know there are a few glitches in the code, such as the RPD one that was more recently brought to light for me. But, really, what rules are not adhered to by the players? The FP/DW/FP thing is a BS argument, IMO. If you are careless enough to let your morale drop to the point it is negative, especially as a result for excessive spending, you deserve the punishment. The morale bombing problem, yeah, I agree that was an extreme that created a major strategy shift that would have ruined the game and needed to be fixed. But, it was WITHIN the rules at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Drake Posted May 13, 2015 Report Share Posted May 13, 2015 That is too bad that some of you are thinking of leaving Victory. As far as I can see, most people are playing within the rules. This is a vicious game. There have been games where people did the FP/DW/FP on me. Now, I guard against that tactic. Sometimes you are in a bad position and there is no realistic way out. That happens. Other times, things work out well and the game can be really fun. Because of the difficulties, it makes surviving a game quite an accomplishment. I have found this game to be fun. It is natural for countries to work together. If it is in their best interest, they should work together. I know all about the FP/DW/FP tactic, Coot. I was forced to drop as Portugal in turn 34 because of that. My morale was already taking a hit because of my treasury, but that tactic drove me so far in the hole that, if they stopped right then, I would've spent the rest of the game doing PA orders--and probably would still be negative at game's end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coothunter Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Earthling, what is wrong with the RPD code? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthling Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Earthling, what is wrong with the RPD code? If it is unsuccessful, you do not get charged for the cost. You only get charged if the mission is a success, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dageraad Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 This makes the RPD order far more attractive. But it is not documented in the rules. It is comparable with the OMA TAS not going off when there is no army to bomb at the designated location. One of the perks of the game not known by everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthling Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 This makes the RPD order far more attractive. But it is not documented in the rules. It is comparable with the OMA TAS not going off when there is no army to bomb at the designated location. One of the perks of the game not known by everyone. OK ~ that surprises me that anyone would not one know about that one.. I think I (we) knew about that one way back in Game 33 (My first). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sven Drake Posted May 26, 2015 Report Share Posted May 26, 2015 This makes the RPD order far more attractive. But it is not documented in the rules. It is comparable with the OMA TAS not going off when there is no army to bomb at the designated location. One of the perks of the game not known by everyone. OK ~ that surprises me that anyone would not one know about that one.. I think I (we) knew about that one way back in Game 33 (My first). I may be wrong, but I think when you do RPD for AE, you get charged even if unsuccessful. With APD orders, you always pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dageraad Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 New map: - Well see how the news in Russia goed. It will tell us were the frontlines are - Lowlands now fighting with Portugal over France? - The Icelandic navy made an intercept and causes a Ship points sunk total of MINUS 1300. - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Whose ships did the Icelandic navy sink? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reece Posted June 7, 2015 Report Share Posted June 7, 2015 Those would be unarmed Swedish relief ships helping the embattled residents of Scotland. Seams Ireland, Iceland, Lowlands and Great Britain all want to see the poor Scots suffer. Glad to hear you have a minus 1300 ships sunk, guess that is some sort of glitch as it appears the losses should have been around 51 points. Now we just have to salvage the ABBA tapes we were distributing to keep the Scottish spirits up in face of the advancing British Army that has entered the Scottish highlands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ike Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 New map: - Well see how the news in Russia goed. It will tell us were the frontlines are - Lowlands now fighting with Portugal over France? - The Icelandic navy made an intercept and causes a Ship points sunk total of MINUS 1300. - Yes Lukas, Lowlands has progressed deep in France and is even in Italy. He is doing well. It is and will be a tough fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rottweiler Posted June 23, 2015 Report Share Posted June 23, 2015 The party in Italy is now officially over. Now all I have to do is clean up the mess (damn American tourists). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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