14 replies to this topic

[Kurassier]

Something has come up that has me a little irritated, and I guess I'd like the opinion of the rest of you, since this could affect you as well. I'd also like to know if RTG has a 'policy' on this, and if not, they should probably implement one.
What to do about picking up dropped empires?
Personally, I don't believe that dropped empires should be allowed to be picked up (or handed over to) another player that has an empire 'in the same area'. I think this gives that player an unfair advantage over others in the same area.
Opinion?

Thanks in advance for your input.

Note, I'm note talking about empires that are not known to be connected, such as a core empire picking up an empire started 50 turns later, etc. Just empires that are close to each other.

[Hughestrog]

Getting (as a minimum) another Home World without a fight would be unbalancing, if the empires are bordering each other.

Mind you, can you use the diplomacy option to get them to join your empire?

[Drasn]

Since a player can run multiple positions, a player could have chosen on turn 0 to start 5 positions which would probably all be in the same area.

In my mind the complaint can't be about one player having an unfair advantage in an area because of multiple positions. It has to be about the sudden shift of power that would happen when they pickup another empire.

With that in mind, picking up an allied empire might be perfectly acceptable where picking up an enemy empire would certainly not be. Of course this is assumming this was a transfer of ownership and not a legitimate in game conquest.

[RTGPete]

With regard to the dropped position policy, we make no attempt to determine any sort of political entanglements, area of space ownership or anything else as that would be flat-out impossible from our end. There’s no way we could possibly figure out who considers what area of space “theirs” or really anything else of a political nature as that is far too complex a matter for us to make any kind of intelligent determination.

If the current owner of a dropped empire wishes to start playing his empire again, he can do so. If he wishes to transfer ownership of his dropped empire to somebody else and let them play it instead of himself, he can do that. There's really no difference between the two options when it comes to the empire being active, and nearby players can do whatever they want with regard to their political affairs. The dropped status of an empire should definitely not be counted on to be neverending - taking out such positions is probably a good security move in any event, if for no other reason than to simply add another homeworld of production to your Vast Overmind Of Death™

I might add that players who pick up positions simply to suicde them into their new-found neighbors (1) could just as well have done the same thing owned by the current dropped owner, and nobody would have been the wiser, and (2) potentially give themselves a bad reputation among the general playerbase, which is often not a good thing at all. All of that is up to you guys to sort out.

[Octus Imperium]

Kurassier, on Jun 16 2006, 05:30 AM, said:

Something has come up that has me a little irritated, and I guess I'd like the opinion of the rest of you, since this could affect you as well.  I'd also like to know if RTG has a 'policy' on this, and if not, they should probably implement one.
  What to do about picking up dropped empires?
Personally, I don't believe that dropped empires should be allowed to be picked up (or handed over to) another player that has an empire 'in the same area'.  I think this gives that player an unfair advantage over others in the same area.
  Opinion?

Thanks in advance for your input.

Note, I'm note talking about empires that are not known to be connected, such as a core empire picking up an empire started 50 turns later, etc.  Just empires that are close to each other.
   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On first blush, I would think picking up an empire within a reasonable range of an established position (say 10 jumps for argument purposes) would be unbalancing for the neighbors and unfair. However, if this happened within the early phase of an empire's existance (say 15 cycles or so) or if the new owner is unaware that the aquired empire is near his/her's established empire (a request for a random empire?), I see no significant unbalancing.

Octus

[WKE235]

This topic came up a long time ago .. the thread is still floating about on this board I bet. In my case, my Apshai encountered the Bashkar. Sometime after our first encounter, the Bashkar was transferred to another player who owned the Acari, and nearby race. And the Apshai discovered this change in ownership just about the same time a third race was transferred to them .. The Colony.

Oh the mails ran hot and heavy on this for quite awhile. Accusations. Heated words. The works. Overall, the policy from RTG was as Pete said above. They will transfer a position to another with the permission of the current owning player. And dropped positions are never truely dropped (as the owner can always come back at anytime). There is also one thing Pete did not state. What Pete and Russ said in a letter to everyone on the board long ago was simply .. Trust Us. With all their experience in gaming over the years, trust them to not do things in the game that would really screw another player.

On this I have to agree. They have been fair and open about the game and how things like this are handled. So trust them on this.

How did things with the Apshai turn out? Well, the whole affair got me into contact with many neighbors. The owner of The Colony got his empire back and played it for awhile (Note that the Acari player did not have to transfer the empire back, but they did do that). A lot about space combat was learned by all as Bashkar still attempted to move in on Apshai space (triggering all the screen thread discussions). Bashkar was then invaded by multiple races and fell (after he dropped, so resistance was minimal). The Colony player decided to drop and transferred ownership to me. The Acari is being hunted down.

ON this last item, yes, I have had an empire transferred to me, and yes, it is next to my other race (Apshai). So let me say this .. coordinating the efforts of two empires or trying to take advantage of the two next to each other is difficult, even with control over both turn sets. Heck for the most part I still play each as seperate (though I did start planning for a trade route between the two to trade some tech differences and try to start focussing R&D .. just haven't gotten round to it yet).

I will add that I still disagree with a policy of allowing such transfers. Perhaps other players would be far better than I (or more focused) and do much better taking advantage of two races next to each other. But it is RTG's game, and I do trust Pete and Russ. And since I argued this to death with RTG, and they decided it was still their policy, I will simply trust them and live with it. Of course, as you can see from above, they are above all fair in how they handle this. Since I have to live with the policy, I have made use of it myself (despite my disagreeing with it -- sounds like I have the makings of a politician).

[Prospective]

I recall reading a similar post made a year or two ago about dropped empires, and I think the response Pete gave was the same as today's.

My understanding is that THE ONLY way one person can pick up a drop is with agreement of the original owner. There is no way to call Pete and say "I want to pick up a drop". That has to limit transfers quite a bit. In most cases, if you run across a dropped position, you will never be able to transfer ownership since the original owner no longer plays. No contact = no way to transfer.

The most likely option then, is a transfer of ownership between friends. If two friends are playing, it's probable that a cooperative relationship already exists. That being the case, there is no change in a balance of power since the two setups are probably already working together.

Is a policy really needed?

[Laserwolf]

WKE235, on Jun 16 2006, 11:44 AM, said:

The Colony player decided to drop and transferred ownership to me.  The Acari is being hunted down. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Come get me big boy.

I expect you to squash me with combined fleets like Lars used with his two adjacent empires...

[Locklyn]

Combined fleets? 99.9% of the current picket fleet that is liberating Hellenic domain is comprised of GGT ships as is very apparent in the all the battlereports that I have been sharing on the boards. The Brotherhood of Builders Empire has so far added a Heavy Cruiser (The ICC Allied Pride) and a survey vessel (The Frontiers Bane) so I would hardly call that combined fleets

When the rest of the VC arrives that will be another story all together

/Locklyn

[Laserwolf]

Locklyn, on Jun 16 2006, 12:37 PM, said:

Combined fleets? 99.9% of the current picket fleet that is liberating Hellenic domain is comprised of GGT ships as is very apparent in the all the battlereports that I have been sharing on the boards. The Brotherhood of Builders Empire has so far added a Heavy Cruiser (The ICC Allied Pride) and a survey vessel (The Frontiers Bane) so I would hardly call that combined fleets

When the rest of the VC arrives that will be another story all together

/Locklyn

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And the BUILDERS did not BUILD components for that massive fleet? Come on now Lars, of course they did. Thats what mule empires are for...

[Locklyn]

I have three conquered homeworlds doing that for me, BOB has one conquered HW of their own doing production so we're good
/Locklyn

[WKE235]

Laserwolf, on Jun 16 2006, 05:18 PM, said:

WKE235, on Jun 16 2006, 11:44 AM, said:

The Colony player decided to drop and transferred ownership to me.  The Acari is being hunted down. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Come get me big boy.

I expect you to squash me with combined fleets like Lars used with his two adjacent empires...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Looking over my guidelines on proper species interactions, the guidebook says the most proper response is to "Yawn vigerously to indicate your boredom with the speaker, and add some missive to demostrate you hold the speaker in low esteem and value. Considering making comments relating the speaker and whatever they said below that of common household tasks. For the more fiscally minded, relating the value of the speaker / task directly to something of zero or negative value can also work".

Hmmmm..... let me see here. AH, I've got it.

Yawn Yawn. OK Laser, I'll do just that. But I hope you don't mind waiting. I can't really do anything until I mix this weeks wastes into the compost heap out back. Not to mention snaking out that toilet that keeps getting plugged up. And DON'T get me going about the dogs intenstinal problems around the house. Ya know, this may take awhile. I'll call you when I have time to schedule the invasion. But thanks for your interest.

[Locklyn]

You DAH MAN WKE!!

/Locklyn

[hobknob]

Regardless of how old the position is, we need to be able to pick up dropped positions. To do otherwise would force many single positions to be dropped when their only ally is forced to drop due to RL circumstances. It is inevitable that folks will drop for one reason or another and the transfer of positions is the fix for that.

[Kurassier]

Thanks for the input.