11 replies to this topic

[Sha'thar of the Gosht Kohr]

Following the posts regarding WP plotting software, is it now possible for someone to automate starmaps? That is, have a plotter print out little boxes with system names within, connected by lines with the WP number and class listed at each end?

As the game continues to progress, those of us who aren't so crazy about cartography and who don't have plotters might be willing to reasonably support a cottage industry by those players who do have access to such abilities.

I can see it now. We send you the db and pay via paypal (or somesuch), and you snailmail us a nice big starmap for the wall.

Any thoughts?

Mapping is hard when you have paws.

[ali-t-akua]

Sha'thar of the Gosht Kohr, on Sep 4 2006, 02:16 PM, said:

Following the posts regarding WP plotting software, is it now possible for someone to automate starmaps?  That is, have a plotter print out little boxes with system names within, connected by lines with the WP number and class listed at each end?

As the game continues to progress, those of us who aren't so crazy about cartography and who don't have plotters might be willing to reasonably support a cottage industry by those players who do have access to such abilities.

I can  see it now.  We send you the db and pay via paypal (or somesuch), and you snailmail us a nice big starmap for the wall.

Any thoughts?

Mapping is hard when you have paws.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only issue with farming out the mapping that I can see is confidentiality.

By the way Cestval has written a program called SNFindPath that can output to Graphviz to make a map so I believe that the datafile and these two programs could produce what you are asking for in a semiautomated fashion negating the need for you to farm this work out and risk your confidential information.

Maybe Cestval would care to comment on the feasibility?

[Lord Uriel]

Big Kitty,
It took a little explanation, but I was able to get Cestvels' program to work. I exported it to a jpeg, then took it to a larger OfficeMax in my area and printed out the starmap on a sheet of paper the size of a desk top calender for $4.30 (for two copies). It doesn't have warp points, but it shows which ones are oneway jumps.

I'd like to figure out how to import it to CMaps, (I tried it, and it didn't work), so I could edit in colors of different systems and such.

Anyway, it's not exactly what you're looking for, but for now ... it's better than nothing.

Lord Uriel

[cestvel]

If you use "dotty" (supplied with GraphViz) you can see your Graph and modify it how you like (e.g. color code it).

Sadly you would need to do that the next time again, when you add nodes to it.

Can you give me an example how you want to colorcode the Systems? I may be able to find a way to add it to SNFindPath.

And you have more info from your printaouts than there are in the mdb.

In the mdb you only have to which system a WP leads, not to which WP.

The Idea was to have an export via SNFindPath, so you have not to add all the information
by hand. But after the initial export, you edit only the saved file and add your
additions by hand.

[Paradigm]

Personally I don't think I'll play another game like this if it does not include mapping. It has become too much of a time drain / chore. I still do not understand how giving out the X/Y/Z coordinates would have any affect on game play since it is impossible to move outside of warp lines. If we had the X/Y/Z coordinates it would greatly facilitate automated mapping software.

I would be willing to pay a little extra for a serviceable map. Perhaps there is an opportunity here for some out of work programmer to make beer money. RTG could contract out optional mapping. Include a MAP order and for an extra buck you get a JPEG or PNG or whatever map with your results. Fifty cents goes to the down on his luck programmer who wrote and maintains the mapping software and the other 4 bits to RTG for generating the extra file. Or some similar arrangement. Not sure if a couple hundred (?) bucks a month is worth someone's time to write a decent mapping program. With one way WP's and such, efficiently laying out the map requires a non trivial algorithm. No computer generated map is going please everyone. All of the work would have to be done up front before how much profit would be generated was known.

[cestvel]

But, despite for a nice wall decoration, for what do you need a printed map?

With SNFindPath it tells you the shortest Path between Systems and prints you out the WPs you need to travel.

So what extra information do you get from the printed map?

[Paradigm]

I don't print it. I have yet to print a single piece of paper for SuperNova.

Sometimes the shortest route is not the best route.

I also annotate my map to show some additional information. Since I reference it constantly while writing orders, I can't really imagine playing without a map.

[ali-t-akua]

Quote

So what extra information do you get from the printed map?

One of the things about a visual representation is the ability to pull information from different sources to one place and quickly understand relationships. I don't annotate with WP because I have SNFindPath, however I do add in other information I find useful such as locations where I have run into alien player run empires, systems with Gas Giants and systems which have WP I have not explored.

[cestvel]

What do you annotate?

I have a Webinterface to my databse, so that when I click on my map on a system if ives me the detailed information to the system (planets, WP).

And when is the shortest not the best path? The program can calculate the shortest Jump (least orders) and least fuel consuming path.

You can ignore systems and make it to visit systems. What other path calculation do you need?

[cestvel]

Ok, I use a enhanced version of the graph, which I generate from my infromations stored and collected in the database.

I have WP Information in it, and the info if it has planets or Gas Giants. This information I cannot generate from the mdb, as it simply has not the information in it.

[Paradigm]

cestvel, on Sep 5 2006, 03:23 PM, said:

And when is the shortest not the best path? The program can calculate the shortest Jump (least orders) and least fuel consuming path.

Border patrols is one example.

[Lord Uriel]

Well, this is the first map I've printed. Ideally, in any map I have, I would like it to indicate Gas Giant locations; and be able to color code systems by empire. For example, what I've colonized, where my neighbors are, and most importently, where the enemy is.

It's not tremondously important that I have a printed map. However, I did note it didn't take too long to do my turns this weekend.

Perhaps it's just a connection to my days of playing Victory, where you have the huge wall map.

Lord Uriel