19 replies to this topic

[the Wolf]

Anybody have any insight in what the right tactics are? How many do you need, in what mix, do fortifications make any difference, any other tips?

[Hamish]

the Wolf, on Jun 10 2007, 10:17 AM, said:

Anybody have any insight in what the right tactics are? How many do you need, in what mix, do fortifications make any difference, any other tips?

Difficult question....
I think it all depends on what you expect to encounter, and what you need to defend.
If you defend against CBs, you can forget about CLABs, their range is just to short to harm ships, these guys are only interesting when attacked by an AA, since the ships will have to come close then, and if your enemy makes it to the shore they will fight along as LDBs. CHABs are terribly expensive, so I think you should only build them in your major cities. Anything under 20 Pop I'd just forget about it. It's less painful to take the damage from the CB than it is to pay for building and maintaining lots of CHABs. And you need lots of them. If your CHABs get silenced, you might as well not have built them. The damage they do to ships is more than a few scratches, but not by much.

So....
* CLABs only in locations where you expect AAs
* CHABs in locations where you expect CBs
* CHABs only in large numbers, and therefore few locations

Weither or not fortifications are worth their cost is another question entirely, and I'm undecided on that one.

[Genaral Ghazi]

You should not build clab in your major cities that you are trying to protect with chab. Here's why: say you build up your chab real high and have a few hundred clab to go with it. I come in and target your clab and break it's moral because I can hit it with my big guns at a range that your clab can't reach my ships. I can break your defensive moral without ever having to fight your chab off. On your dson if you target small warships you will fire at the clab and if you target lw you will engage the chab.

[Hamish]

Genaral Ghazi, on Jun 10 2007, 05:54 PM, said:

You should not build clab in your major cities that you are trying to protect with chab. Here's why: say you build up your chab real high and have a few hundred clab to go with it. I come in and target your clab and break it's moral because I can hit it with my big guns at a range that your clab can't reach my ships. I can break your defensive moral without ever having to fight your chab off. On your dson if you target small warships you will fire at the clab and if you target lw you will engage the chab.

Hmmm, not so sure if that last bit of information is true. Russ, can you shed some light on that?

[Genaral Ghazi]

hmmmm.. maybe you should try it sometime it seems to be quite effective...............

[RTGRuss]

Hamish, on Jun 11 2007, 11:57 AM, said:

Genaral Ghazi, on Jun 10 2007, 05:54 PM, said:

You should not build clab in your major cities that you are trying to protect with chab. Here's why: say you build up your chab real high and have a few hundred clab to go with it. I come in and target your clab and break it's moral because I can hit it with my big guns at a range that your clab can't reach my ships. I can break your defensive moral without ever having to fight your chab off. On your dson if you target small warships you will fire at the clab and if you target lw you will engage the chab.

Hmmm, not so sure if that last bit of information is true. Russ, can you shed some light on that?

CHAB and CLAB would both participate in any coastal battery vs naval force combat. CLAB does not take damage as well as CHAB and could be deliberately given primary target status so that's a real valid concern - although 'silencing' of the batteries is based on the whole of CHAB/CLAB factors and damage taken so if your coastal battery is mostly CHAB the enemy still has to do a fair amount of damage to the them. CLAB is also unable to return fire *if* the enemy stays beyond 20,000 yards (a common tactic). If the enemy closes within 20,000 yards then CLAB can be very effective since it has a higher rate of fire than CHAB and 6" shellfire can do a fair bit of damage.

Given the cost and the gunnery tactics employed most nations opt to just build up CHAB in important cities/coastal provinces. IF the enemy makes a mistake of closing within 20,000 yards though CLAB can be quite effective. That may not be likely but then again if there is no CLAB at a location an enemy could close within 20,000 yards in a battle with CHAB and not have to worry as much - the CHAB ROF would increase a little along accuracy but the naval force units would get that benefit as well and it might allow for smaller warships and secondary armaments to be used in the fight so...point and counterpoint.

You don't want to build up a lot of CLAB given its vulnerability in long range duels but if you have a solid foundation of CHAB at a location there is a case to be made for a battery or two of it just to keep the enemy honest or to take advantage of potential enemy mistakes. If in doubt though - build CHAB.


Russ

[Hamish]

Genaral Ghazi, on Jun 10 2007, 05:54 PM, said:

On your dson if you target small warships you will fire at the clab and if you target lw you will engage the chab.

And is this true?

[Meaty_Bites]

Quote

and could be deliberately given primary target status so that's a real valid concern

I would say that is a yes


Also wolf's question:

Quote

How many do you need

has not been answered.

[RTGRuss]

Hamish, on Jun 12 2007, 09:26 AM, said:

Genaral Ghazi, on Jun 10 2007, 05:54 PM, said:

On your dson if you target small warships you will fire at the clab and if you target lw you will engage the chab.

And is this true?

CHAB is considered "LW" (Large Warship) and CLAB is considered "SW" (Small Warship) for DSON targeting purposes - it would give one or the other primary target status for your naval force and would work exactly as it would in a normal fleet engagement (i.e. It isn't the only targeting factor and it won't target a given class of unit to the exclusion of all others but it would give that class of unit the primary target status which would lead to it be targeted far more often).

Russ

[Predator]

Thanks Russ.

As you play the game of Victory you will notice there are alot of things you can do that aren't necessarily in the rule book. This is only one example....experiment with your orders you may be surprised!

[miraeng]

Predator, on Jun 13 2007, 08:47 PM, said:

Thanks Russ.

As you play the game of Victory you will notice there are alot of things you can do that aren't necessarily in the rule book. This is only one example....experiment with your orders you may be surprised!

On the question of Forts.
They are so good when built up to legendary strength.
Even if the Army defending that location has zero MUN it will defend like you would not believe.
If you come across an Army protected by a fort it is an advantage to attack with a few TAS's first.
Paul

[cd_ernst]

miraeng, on Jun 14 2007, 11:29 AM, said:

Predator, on Jun 13 2007, 08:47 PM, said:

Thanks Russ.

As you play the game of Victory you will notice there are alot of things you can do that aren't necessarily in the rule book. This is only one example....experiment with your orders you may be surprised!

On the question of Forts.
They are so good when built up to legendary strength.
Even if the Army defending that location has zero MUN it will defend like you would not believe.
If you come across an Army protected by a fort it is an advantage to attack with a few TAS's first.
Paul

About those forts and CB's,

Can forts be destroyed by a CB when build in a port?
And considering the fact that CLAB/CHAB are considered SW/LW, wouldn't the Naval Gunnery training program give you a modifier when attacking a port city with a CB?
Is the distance sailed to a port city when ordering your fleet to CB that city a factor in it's success? (Would a CB be more successful if you would sneak your fleet in at night 1 turn before you CB the city?)

Anyone?

Donald

[the Wolf]

And what about fortifications? Do they protect CHABs and CLABs?

[nfbeerse]

the Wolf, on Jun 15 2007, 08:43 PM, said:

And what about fortifications? Do they protect CHABs and CLABs?

Yes, fortifications do also protect coastal batteries trying to fight of a coastal bombardment.

Hope this helps,
Norbert

cd_ernst, on Jun 15 2007, 08:16 AM, said:

Can forts be destroyed by a CB when build in a port?

Donald,

Fortifications in (port)cities can not be targetted in an attack. A ground-assault is the only way to eliminate an enemy fort...

cd_ernst, on Jun 15 2007, 08:16 AM, said:

And considering the fact that CLAB/CHAB are considered SW/LW, wouldn't the Naval Gunnery training program give you a modifier when attacking a port city with a CB?

Donald,

The training program "Naval Gunnery" is not factored is a combat against coastal batteries... Perhaps the training program "Coastal Bombardment" is, but I will have to look into that...

Hope this helps,
Norbert

[Hamish]

nfbeerse, on Jun 17 2007, 12:50 AM, said:

cd_ernst, on Jun 15 2007, 08:16 AM, said:

Can forts be destroyed by a CB when build in a port?

Donald,

Fortifications in (port)cities can not be targetted in an attack. A ground-assault is the only way to eliminate an enemy fort...

This is not entirely true. You cannot target the city fortifications directly, but they are part of your targets when you use General Targets.

nfbeerse, on Jun 17 2007, 12:50 AM, said:

cd_ernst, on Jun 15 2007, 08:16 AM, said:

And considering the fact that CLAB/CHAB are considered SW/LW, wouldn't the Naval Gunnery training program give you a modifier when attacking a port city with a CB?

Donald,

The training program "Naval Gunnery" is not factored is a combat against coastal batteries... Perhaps the training program "Coastal Bombardment" is, but I will have to look into that...

Hope this helps,
Norbert

This is entirely not true, here's the definition of the Naval Gunnery training program, copy/paste from the rulebook:
Naval Gunnery
+.01 Special Combat Modifier per level. Applied as a bonus to hit in naval combat and coastal engagements (ship vs coastal artillery units).