23 replies to this topic

[Mahdi]

OK, I'm still the new guy so I get to ask the dumb questions. I thought that if you added more engines to a design you would get more APs. I took the basic Pathfinder class and added 10 more engines and it still has a rating of 2AP. Do I have to wait for advanced engines? Is there a formula for figuring out how many engines are needed to actually get the number up?

Thanks for the help,
Mahdi

[Calamaran]

Yes, there is a formula but it depends on the total trust vs total weight of the design.
It is total trust from the engines devided by the total tonnage of the ship or fleet if you have more than 1 ship. Total tonnage includes engines but does not include fuel or other sorts of cargo.

I will use Mk III Nuclear engines for an example: Each Mk III Nuclear engine puts out 1,000 tons of trust. Assuming you have 4 of these on a 1,000 ton ship design you would get to a total trust of 4,000 tons.
4,000 tons of trust / 1,000 tons of weight gets you 4 APs for this ship.
So a 1,000 ton ship design which includes 4 Mk III Nuclear engines would have 4 AP.

As you get better engines, the number of engines needed to get to the same amount of AP's will deminish, assuming the other part of the design remains the same.
Also, no ship can ever get below 2 AP. Even if you put a single Mk I Nuclear engine on a 1,000,000,000 ton ship it would still have 2 AP.

Hope this helps to clarify things.

Calamaran.

[Mahdi]

OK, so since I'm a new empire and only have MK I which have 300 lbs thrust (I think that's the spec) then you would need 120 engines to get a 12,000 ton ship to a level of 3 AP. Is that correct?

Mahdi

[Calamaran]

Correct. Unfortunately, the weight of the 120 engines is also 12,000 tons so you could not put anything else in the design.
If you want ships with higher AP and have them do anything else but making in system moves you will need better engines first.

Calamaran.

[Krelnett_of_Kraan]

You put great thrust in your spell-checker, don't you?

Calamaran, on Feb 23 2008, 04:16 PM, said:

Yes, there is a formula but it depends on the total trust vs total weight of the design.
It is total trust from the engines devided by the total tonnage of the ship or fleet if you have more than 1 ship. Total tonnage includes engines but does not include fuel or other sorts of cargo.

I will use Mk III Nuclear engines for an example: Each Mk III Nuclear engine puts out 1,000 tons of trust. Assuming you have 4 of these on a 1,000 ton ship design you would get to a total trust of 4,000 tons.
4,000 tons of trust / 1,000 tons of weight gets you 4 APs for this ship.
So a 1,000 ton ship design which includes 4 Mk III Nuclear engines would have 4 AP.

As you get better engines, the number of engines needed to get to the same amount of AP's will deminish, assuming the other part of the design remains the same.
Also, no ship can ever get below 2 AP. Even if you put a single Mk I Nuclear engine on a 1,000,000,000 ton ship it would still have 2 AP.

Hope this helps to clarify things.

Calamaran.

[hobknob]

Here are a couple of thoughts about engines and AP's.

I don't recommend trying to get higher than 2 AP's out of your designs until you get Mk I Fusions or Mk III Nuclear engines. they will both provide a 5 AP design but is it really worth it?

Assuming that the most efficient design includes 50% engines, you can easily see how the AP progression will go.

Mk III Nuclear Mk I fusion = 1000 thrust = 5 AP
Mk IV Nuclear Mk II Fusion = 2000 Thrust = 10 AP etc.

Engine thrust simply doubles for a while.

It is possible to get higher AP ships out of lesser engines if you design the ship with 100% engines. This tactic is really only useful for ships that will stay in system and only need to patrol or do planet scans.

I would recommend waiting until you get to Mk II fusions before worrying about it.

There is also a ship building spreadsheet out there that does all the calculations for you.

[Mahdi]

Thanks for the advice,

Mahdi,
Vereor est mens iuguolo

[Locklyn]

Mahdi, on Feb 24 2008, 08:39 PM, said:

Thanks for the advice,

Mahdi,
Vereor est mens iuguolo

Kick me a message or email and I'll see if I have some of the basic sheets laying around that I can send you



/Locklyn

[WKE235]

hobknob, on Feb 24 2008, 06:29 PM, said:

Mk III Nuclear Mk I fusion = 1000 thrust = 5 AP
Mk IV Nuclear Mk II Fusion = 2000 Thrust = 10 AP etc.

Engine thrust simply doubles for a while.

Of course the numbers do get rather large as tech progresses. Mk IV Antimatter is 64,000 thrust (or around 320 AP if you want in a 50% design ship .. 32 AP in a 5% design). And there is more beyond. You can set-up some pretty radical convoy routes eventually. Imagine a 100 AP cargo ship. Even with a small cargo capacity of say 100,000 tons, you can move a huge load in convoy runs.

Actually, good question for everyone. What IS the highest AP ship you've built? Come on, I know you want to brag.

[Takeda]

[/quote]

Of course the numbers do get rather large as tech progresses. Mk IV Antimatter is 64,000 thrust (or around 320 AP if you want in a 50% design ship .. 32 AP in a 5% design). And there is more beyond. You can set-up some pretty radical convoy routes eventually. Imagine a 100 AP cargo ship. Even with a small cargo capacity of say 100,000 tons, you can move a huge load in convoy runs.

Actually, good question for everyone. What IS the highest AP ship you've built? Come on, I know you want to brag.
[/quote]

and if starts everyone running multiple 100 AP convoy routes how long until we have to wait unitl Tuesday or Wednesday for turn results? I am not a computer guy, but it seems that convoys would eat up a huge amount of computer time. I was a bit suprised there was not a cap on convoy routes like some standing orders in victory. But as I mentioned, I am not a computer guy.

Before the Mk II tomatoes start flying at me ...I am not suggesting a limit on convoy routes. I am just a little curious about how how things work sometimes. I used to love those books that showed the inside of planes and ships (still do).

Takeda

[looker]

847

2 colony berthings and ~100 Mk I total conversion engine no warp
You can move a lot of pop in a hurry, but be willing to take crap when
your in-system friends get 1200 page turns with just convoy alien sighting reports.
Even your best friends get a kick out of calling you "SPAM BOY"

[Octus Imperium]

Let's see, that 100K freighter with 100 AP is put on a convoy route...

Oh no, it didn't work as planned! And that REALLY screwed up production on 5 worlds....

OH NO! The HW didn't build X and Y and Z! Now my orders for next turned are FUBAR!

Where did this convoy route go bad? I can't seem to find it in these 60 pages of print out of bad convoy results. And it moved what to where?????? How am I gonna get all those Improved CM's back to the right place? Oh, another convoy route I guess....

How many orders is this gonna take to fix? I can't afford to put my kid and one of Pete's through college as well!

How do you built an 8 AP 1 Meg freighter again?

Octus

(Rate limiting step in mega APs and convoy routes is a typo in an order.)

[Locklyn]

Or you could have a six 240 AP 3 Mton freighters in a convoy route and suddenly wonder why they stopped out in the middle of nowhere...ah....240 AP means a lot of fuel And then you build a 240 AP fuel tanker to ensure that those bad boys get their fumes...*sigh*

/Locklyn

[Octus Imperium]

Locklyn, on Feb 25 2008, 08:50 AM, said:

Or you could have a six 240 AP 3 Mton freighters in a convoy route and suddenly wonder why they stopped out in the middle of nowhere...ah....240 AP means a lot of fuel And then you build a 240 AP fuel tanker to ensure that those bad boys get their fumes...*sigh*

/Locklyn

Sure hope that didn't happen to anyone on these boards......

[Kurassier]

Takeda, on Feb 24 2008, 10:23 PM, said:

I am not a computer guy, but it seems that convoys would eat up a huge amount of computer time. I was a bit suprised there was not a cap on convoy routes like some standing orders in victory.

True, but I was even more suprised that there is not a cap on APs per ship. How about those 100-200 AP skimmer ships that SKIM, OC, 100-200 times per turn. Multipy that by about 20 ships........ and you have 6- 8000 orders on skims alone. At, lets say 10 orders per page, you have 600-800 pages of a turn, that is doing nothing but supplying fuel dumps.
and people wonder why turns are so long......