10 replies to this topic

[Flagritz]

First I will apologise for potentially re-opening the old Screen ship debate. However I had this idea and while I know its very unlikely to actually happen I thought Id throw it out there.

Just as weapons increase in size as the technology increase why couldn't Armor do the same?

Each level increase by a factor of 10

So
Level 1 = 1 Ton
Level 2 = 10 Tons
Level 3 = 100 Tons
Level 4 = 1,000 Tons
Level 5 = 10,000 Tons
Level 6 = 100,000 Tons
Level 7 = 1,000,000 Tons

The factors would also increase so for instance Titanium composite is a Level 2 armour giving 8 integrity, so its new 10 Ton version would have 80 integrity.

With this system as your tech level increases the benfit of building screens would come down (especially as your industrial capacity is increasing). So if you had T'ckon 68 instead of fielding 1000 small ships it would be 1 big ship (and then is it worth it at all?) If you chose to build the smaller armor thats fine but better weapons tech means that smaller high AP ships can be utilized to wipe out the screens.

Its just a random thought! :]

[ali-t-akua]

Flagritz, on Aug 23 2008, 08:44 AM, said:

First I will apologise for potentially re-opening the old Screen ship debate. However I had this idea and while I know its very unlikely to actually happen I thought Id throw it out there.

Just as weapons increase in size as the technology increase why couldn't Armor do the same?

Each level increase by a factor of 10

So
Level 1 = 1 Ton
Level 2 = 10 Tons
Level 3 = 100 Tons
Level 4 = 1,000 Tons
Level 5 = 10,000 Tons
Level 6 = 100,000 Tons
Level 7 = 1,000,000 Tons

The factors would also increase so for instance Titanium composite is a Level 2 armour giving 8 integrity, so its new 10 Ton version would have 80 integrity.

With this system as your tech level increases the benfit of building screens would come down (especially as your industrial capacity is increasing). So if you had T'ckon 68 instead of fielding 1000 small ships it would be 1 big ship (and then is it worth it at all?) If you chose to build the smaller armor thats fine but better weapons tech means that smaller high AP ships can be utilized to wipe out the screens.

Its just a random thought! :]

I am assuming that you keep the strength per ton. Wouldn't you now just put shields on the screens?

[Flagritz]

ali-t-akua, on Aug 23 2008, 04:57 PM, said:

Flagritz, on Aug 23 2008, 08:44 AM, said:

First I will apologise for potentially re-opening the old Screen ship debate. However I had this idea and while I know its very unlikely to actually happen I thought Id throw it out there.

Just as weapons increase in size as the technology increase why couldn't Armor do the same?

Each level increase by a factor of 10

So
Level 1 = 1 Ton
Level 2 = 10 Tons
Level 3 = 100 Tons
Level 4 = 1,000 Tons
Level 5 = 10,000 Tons
Level 6 = 100,000 Tons
Level 7 = 1,000,000 Tons

The factors would also increase so for instance Titanium composite is a Level 2 armour giving 8 integrity, so its new 10 Ton version would have 80 integrity.

With this system as your tech level increases the benfit of building screens would come down (especially as your industrial capacity is increasing). So if you had T'ckon 68 instead of fielding 1000 small ships it would be 1 big ship (and then is it worth it at all?) If you chose to build the smaller armor thats fine but better weapons tech means that smaller high AP ships can be utilized to wipe out the screens.

Its just a random thought! :]

I am assuming that you keep the strength per ton. Wouldn't you now just put shields on the screens?

Yep, the strength per tonne remains the same :]

Shields aren't as effective as armour and don't get a bonus for being in a orbital or Surface fortress, they are also much more expesnive to build, however yes because of there size they would become a more viable option for your screens (and I suppose then a ship projecting force shields is a true screening ship

The question becomes is it worth building a thousand 1K ton ships with force shields or one 1,000,000 ton tckon surface fortress? Opening up more stratergys (those who build the screens can be overwhelmed by high AP small ships with good weapons), those that build the surface fortress lose the benefit of the swarm.

[Lord SaHeru]

early on swarm is good but once your start getting all those nice higher end toys the advanatage starts to fade some.

So say a single ship with
1 mill of Takon
10 Type D statis field generators
1000 Mk IX Force Shields
5 Mk IV Holographic Cybernetic Battle Directors
100 Type D Spinal thingy-ma-bob

VS 1000 1K ships

My big ship can spead its fire power out enought to level that fleet pretty quick and you will not have enough damage to even tickle my shields.

Now flip that and have 1000 fortresses plus a giant 1 or two and I am going to lose. The other advantage that a fortresses has is that once the fight is over you can scrap them all and rebuild as good as new. Where as I have to drag my ship back to port to do any effective repairs.

Even a swarm with all the latest shinny toys is not going to last as long unless it they have some big gun ships in the back. Not to mention that there just might be a bridge system that allows you to target the big guns first while ignoring the swarm. Which of course makes sense...

"Captain the enemy has sent in 1000 ships but their weapons are not even penetrating our shield, but 10 feet of our port is a 5 million ton Nova class imperial dreadnaught..who should be shoot at?"

Captain pulling his finger out of his nose and wiping the drool off of his face responds with a commanding voice "ummm..can we get a shot in at it?"

"yes sir! we can take it out in 1 volley"

"well let the computer just shoot at everything else then and stop bothering me I have this wooden block I am I trying to put in this round hole"

J

[Locklyn]

Just get Flag Bridges installed and you will be a happier sentinent being.

/Locklyn

[WKE235]

Ahhh Locklyn ... Flag Bridges you say? Are you just pulling our limbs? Or trying to reignite the whole "There is a magic tech out there that you can use to control what you shoot at" debate.

I have yet to see any "Flag Bridge". But I have seen fire control systems with enough FC that mulitple billions of firepower can be divided across the sky frying hugh swaths of screens, very very quickly.

[Locklyn]

We have no idea of what you are talking about of course there is no flag bridge tech, that was an unfortunate translation error by some clerks who now have had their city nuked.

There is nothing here to see go back to your regular fire control computers

/Locklyn

[hobknob]

Increasing armor tonnage would do little to stop screen swarms. Screens are designed to be destroyed and high end armor is wasted on them. You really can't put anything on a 1000 ton ship that will prevent it from being obliterated by any decent volley.

All you would accomplish with 1M ton Tckon would be to have ships that were all about the same integrity. This already happens with other large systems. You have to decide if you will have 1, 2, or 3 Type D spinal Starbores. That is about it since they are so stinking huge.

No, smaller systems are much nicer and make ship design entertaining.

[Lord Deependra]

Locklyn, on Aug 24 2008, 12:54 PM, said:

We have no idea of what you are talking about of course there is no flag bridge tech, that was an unfortunate translation error by some clerks who now have had their city nuked.

There is nothing here to see go back to your regular fire control computers

/Locklyn

"Exploration teams from Fleet #9999 search ABCDE-9 for anything of interest, and discover an abandoned Terraforming Station here!
They examine their discovery quite closely, and much is learned concerning Mk II Flag Bridge technology!", but not, alas, anything of practical use, such as what it does!

[hobknob]

It is much similar to the ring girls at a boxing match. In between rounds they walk around with big signs (flags) that proclaim what round it is. In our case they are trying to distract the enemy targeting systems.

[RTGPete]

The old screen debate boils down to:

If the enemy has poor fire control or no way to simply out right ignore the presence of your screens, they can be very effective. Otherwise, they are generally a waste of tonnage. Though screens look good on paper, they are worthless when countered properly, and you would have been much, much better off simply building regular warships, more armor on existing ships or whatever else out of the tonnage used up on the screens.