33 replies to this topic

[Sakarissa]

I've read on earlier threads where the Fortress division took only one Troop Berthing and where they too up 10 Troop Berthings. What is the real answer?

Sakarissa
The Circle

[Kurassier]

Sakarissa, on Jan 6 2009, 01:15 PM, said:

I've read on earlier threads where the Fortress division took only one Troop Berthing and where they too up 10 Troop Berthings. What is the real answer?

Sakarissa
The Circle

10.

[El Capitan]

Yes, 10 is correct.

[Coconutheads]

Sak,

I posted a couple battles that show the Fortress unit takes only ONE troop berthing space.

Please read my posts regarding the attacks on two of Black Cloud's homeworlds in the last month or so. In both cases, my troop transport has 1003 troop berths. If you total up the number of troops I dropped, I believe they tally to 1000 units exactly.... and there were at least 24 or maybe 26 Fortress units included in that tally.

So, while others may build different sized Fortress units, mine perform (and cost) the equivalent of 10 units but only use one troop berth space to transport.

[Kurassier]

Coconutheads, on Jan 6 2009, 08:01 PM, said:

Sak,

I posted a couple battles that show the Fortress unit takes only ONE troop berthing space.

Please read my posts regarding the attacks on two of Black Cloud's homeworlds in the last month or so. In both cases, my troop transport has 1003 troop berths. If you total up the number of troops I dropped, I believe they tally to 1000 units exactly.... and there were at least 24 or maybe 26 Fortress units included in that tally.

So, while others may build different sized Fortress units, mine perform (and cost) the equivalent of 10 units but only use one troop berth space to transport.

Interesting. I tested it by buiding a 40 capacity troop ship. I then attemped to load 10 Fortress units and only 4 were loaded. I then unloaded the transport and attempted to load 60 other division types and 40 were loaded.

[WKE235]

Kurassier, on Jan 7 2009, 05:10 AM, said:

Coconutheads, on Jan 6 2009, 08:01 PM, said:

Sak,

I posted a couple battles that show the Fortress unit takes only ONE troop berthing space.

Please read my posts regarding the attacks on two of Black Cloud's homeworlds in the last month or so. In both cases, my troop transport has 1003 troop berths. If you total up the number of troops I dropped, I believe they tally to 1000 units exactly.... and there were at least 24 or maybe 26 Fortress units included in that tally.

So, while others may build different sized Fortress units, mine perform (and cost) the equivalent of 10 units but only use one troop berth space to transport.

Interesting. I tested it by buiding a 40 capacity troop ship. I then attemped to load 10 Fortress units and only 4 were loaded. I then unloaded the transport and attempted to load 60 other division types and 40 were loaded.

I think there are several bugs in the program processes that load ships. For example I had a troop transport that for some reason could only be fully loaded on the Home World. When I tried to embark troops on remote worlds after taking them over, only 1/2 the troops would ever load. Pete fixed that manually for several turns. Don't know if that was ever fixed as the troopers final mission saw them die in a HW assault so the ship had nothing to take home.

[Coconutheads]

Typically I haven't used Fortresses before the attack on BCL. So, I only have these two battles to use as an example, but in both cases, I was able to load my full compliment of troops including the Fortress units. The first LC order was issued at my 'homeworld' and the second was at my newly acquired 'homeworld' and there were no loading problems.

So... not sure what to say. I've never had issues loading non-fortress troops regardless if it was my original HW or a captured location.

[TErnest]

Coconutheads, on Jan 7 2009, 08:12 AM, said:

Typically I haven't used Fortresses before the attack on BCL. So, I only have these two battles to use as an example, but in both cases, I was able to load my full compliment of troops including the Fortress units. The first LC order was issued at my 'homeworld' and the second was at my newly acquired 'homeworld' and there were no loading problems.

So... not sure what to say. I've never had issues loading non-fortress troops regardless if it was my original HW or a captured location.

I have heard reports that when Fortresses are loaded using the LC order, that they only take 1 berthing each. But, when loaded via a EAF order, they take 10 berthings each. Never confirmed this myself, though. Can anybody out there confirm or deny?

TErnest

[cestvel]

TErnest, on Jan 7 2009, 05:52 PM, said:

Coconutheads, on Jan 7 2009, 08:12 AM, said:

Typically I haven't used Fortresses before the attack on BCL. So, I only have these two battles to use as an example, but in both cases, I was able to load my full compliment of troops including the Fortress units. The first LC order was issued at my 'homeworld' and the second was at my newly acquired 'homeworld' and there were no loading problems.

So... not sure what to say. I've never had issues loading non-fortress troops regardless if it was my original HW or a captured location.

I have heard reports that when Fortresses are loaded using the LC order, that they only take 1 berthing each. But, when loaded via a EAF order, they take 10 berthings each. Never confirmed this myself, though. Can anybody out there confirm or deny?

TErnest

I thought it was the other way around
But in any case, I had Fortresses on my ships only using up 1 slot. But I cannot remember if I did an EAF
or an LC.
But with EAF being correct using them 10 slots, that would explain WKEs problem, as he surely did an EAF from the captured HW.

[Coconutheads]

Again my experiences varied.

When the TT was first created, the initial troop embarkation used a LC order. They ALL division types I possessed in the battles posted boarded with no issues and EVERY troop unit including Fortresses fit in to a single space.

Then, after I conquered the first Black Cloud homeworld, I used the EAF order to pick up the troops to go after the second HW. Again, ALL units boarded with no hitches and every unit including Fortresses fit into a single space.

So, if this is any comfort for any of you, as of the two December 2008 turns, I have concrete examples that any previous issues LC or EAF issues have been fixed and that EVERY troop unit fits into a single berth, regardless of what may have happened in the past.

If anyone has examples where Fortresses use more than one space (please don't include examples prior to December 2008 as it looks like it was fixed), or whether there was a difference between an EAF or LC order (spacewise for Fortresses), please post it here.

[hobknob]

I have found that fortresses take up the full 10 spaces when loaded via the LC order, however they have always taken taken a single space when loaded by the EAF order. However, even when using the EAF order they wouldn't load unless there were at least 10 berths available.

Things have been pretty consistent for me as well.

[El Capitan]

I could be wrong because it's been so long since I asked Pete about this, but I'm pretty sure his intent was that Fortress units would take up 10 troop berthings. Until I hear otherwise from him, and to be on the safe side because I don't like failed orders, I will always have 10 berths available for each Fortress unit. They are the equivallent of 10 units so why should they only take one berthing to transport?

[Coconutheads]

El,

I agree totally, it doesn't make sense for them to take up one berth. But, why don't you need improved timber to build Improved Industries? Why are Mineral Fertilizers around? Those don't make sense either. I think it's folly to try to make sense of everything in SN... you'll drive yourself nuts doing so.

My recommendation is to treat fortresses as taking one berth... if you find out they take 10 (whether you load using a LC or an EAF), then you just have yourself a 'reserve' unit of fortresses. If they take one, then you have yourself a larger force than you expected. The definition of a win-win scenario.

[El Capitan]

The difference is what Pete intended for the game. If Pete says that Fortress units should be able to load into one berthing, then that's what I'll do.

Yes, there is a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense. Pete intended Improved Industries to be made from Improved Timber but when it didn't turn out that way, he let it be known that it wasn't worth making the fix and that the rule was you could build Imp. Const. Mats. with regular timber. So it's not soley about what makes sense but what the rule is supposed to be.

Clearly, the berthing issue isn't working as intended and hasn't been "fixed" as you assume, or we wouldn't be seeing such varied results from different players. And it's my opinion that if Pete has been trying to fix it, his intent was not to allow the equiv. of 10 troops to be loaded into one berthing.

Based on the varied results from different players, one of these things has happened:

1. The programming was intended to require one berthing per troop with the exception of Fortresses. As they are the equivilent of ten troops, they would require ten berthings. Because of some unintended "glitch", some people were/are able to load Fortress units into one berthing.

2. The programming was intended to require one berthing per troop including Fortress units. Due to an unintended "glitch", some people have been prevented from loading Fortess units into one berthing.

I can think of lots of reasons how the first example could happen. The main reason being the error occured in how the LC works vs. the EAF. It gets much harder to explain how the second example could happen. Not impossible, but much more unlikely.

Having said that, it's possible that the first example is the case but Pete has decided it's not worth fixing, and like the timber example, he is now allowing Fortess units to be loaded into one berthing. But unlike the timber example, Pete hasn't said that the rule has changed.

So, until Pete states that the rule is that Fortress units take only one berthing, I'm loading them into ten berths.

Something else to consider --- Whether one berthing can carry a Fortress unit or not might not only have to do with when the "fix" was made (assuming one has been made) but might also have to do with when the troop transport ship was built. I've seen other examples of a fix being made but the fix didn't apply to ships that were already in service.

[El Capitan]

Coconutheads, on Jan 10 2009, 10:29 AM, said:

My recommendation is to treat fortresses as taking one berth... if you find out they take 10 (whether you load using a LC or an EAF), then you just have yourself a 'reserve' unit of fortresses. If they take one, then you have yourself a larger force than you expected. The definition of a win-win scenario.

This is not necessarily how this would play out. If using the EAF order, I don't think you can choose which troops to load and which to leave behind. I think the program loads troops from the army force alphabetically until the troop transport is full. So, you could end up with all of your Fortress units loaded but you would leave behind all your Transport, Space Defense, Security, NBC, Naval, Militia, and Medical units, etc. behind. This could cause some disastrous results in a ground battle and would not be what I would consider a win-win scenario.

This is why I would rather be safe than sorry. At least until Pete states that Fortress units count as only one troop when loading. Then, if it doesn't work properly, it's on his shoulders to fix.