101 replies to this topic

[D.I.E.]

Well... first thing's first. Congratulations to the PA, most notably the Phoenix Empire, for their victory over our forces this turn. My ally and I just got our various body parts handed back to us piece by piece this turn.

Their side had heavys, along with several thousand screens. We had heavys, one of which was equipped with a Mk I Flag Bridge.

Take a look. From all indications, every single point of our firepower was directed exclusively at enemy screens. The flag bridge did absolutely no good. No effect. Nada. Nothing. Goose egg.

Comments?

Tony


================================================================================
=========================================
Alien Fleet Sighting : Semjan - 3 [in-system move by empire # 737]
HLD Murean Holdfast # 733 'Double Helix Entwining A Black Hole'
[X-Ray] 45th Swarm
4933 COZ Screen Echo (Assault Corvette - 1,000 tons)
BNG Bene Gesserit # 1622 'Silver Gom Jabbar On Skeletal Finger'
[Tango] Fleet 1096
1 BB Junior Worm (Battleship - 5,120,000 tons)
1 NDN Chains of Servitude (Nova Dreadnaught - 92,355,000 tons)
1 WC Sardaukar A (War Cruiser - 1,499,500 tons)
1 BM Inquiry of Flame (Monitor - 2,112,000 tons)
MAC MacroHard # 2496 'Rainbow Stripes'
[X-Ray] Scout
3240 AUXL NanoBOT (Light Auxiliary - 1,100 tons)
PHO Phoenix Empire # 3587 'Cat's Paw On A Field Of Orange, Encircled By Stars'
[Quebec] 2000th EXPL Group
10 CO Lightgrazer (Corvette - 1,500 tons)
[Quebec] Fleet 1001
2700 SOX tach324 (Surface Outpost - 1,000 tons)
[Whiskey] Homeworld PDC
1 PFX Lioness (Planetary Fortress - 26,235,400 tons)
6144 SOX tach324 (Surface Outpost - 1,000 tons)
1 SOX Cargo1000 (Surface Outpost - 1,000 tons)
1 CTX Lion (Planetary Citadel - 134,544,000 tons)
Imperial Demonic Envelopment Page 18 of 431 Saturday, March 07, 2009 737
490 SOX lgrazer (Surface Outpost - 1,400 tons)
================================================================================
=========================================
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
** NAVAL BATTLE REPORT **
----- SEMJAN [ G (Yellow) 0 V ] [Single Star] - 3 -----
Imperial Demonic Envelopment # 737 (+14 [Leaders * Lifeform]) ----- Bene Gesserit # 1622 (No Naval Commanders) -----
Total tonnage: 565,586,500.....Base Fire Control: 162 [91,950,770,000 bridge]
Phoenix Empire # 3587 (No Naval Commanders) ----- MacroHard # 2496 (No Naval Commanders) ----- Murean Holdfast # 733 (No
Naval Commanders) -----
Total tonnage: 178,822,400.....Base Fire Control: 337 [60,434,482,000 bridge]
666th Plague Fleet Imperial Demonic Envelopment #737 Fleet Admiral Diablo of the Beta Circle
666th Plague Fleet Imperial Demonic Envelopment #737 Grand Admiral Set of the Gamma Circle
------------------------------- ** Imperial Navy Report: Fleet Order of Battle ** ------------------------------------------
Murean Holdfast # 733 [Double Helix Entwining A Black Hole]
45th Swarm [ROE: X] *Standard Line* (Fleet Tonnage: 4,933,000)
[Deploy Location 1] 4933 COZ Screen Echo (Assault Corvette - 1,000 tons [each])
<384,774 Fuel>
------------------------------- ** Imperial Navy Report: Fleet Order of Battle ** ------------------------------------------
Imperial Demonic Envelopment # 737 [World Impaled On Pitchfork Over Open Flame]
666th Plague Fleet [ROE: Q] *Standard Line* (Fleet Tonnage: 464,500,000)
[Deploy Location 1] 1 NDNF Leviathan of the Deep (Flag Nova Dreadnaught - 464,500,000 tons [each])
<10 Colony Beacon>--<26,941,300 Fuel>--<4 System Probe>
------------------------------- ** Imperial Navy Report: Fleet Order of Battle ** ------------------------------------------
Bene Gesserit # 1622 [Silver Gom Jabbar On Skeletal Finger]
Fleet 1096 [ROE: T] *Gom Jabbar* (Fleet Tonnage: 101,086,500)
[Deploy Location 1] 1 BM Inquiry of Flame (Monitor - 2,112,000 tons [each])
[Deploy Location 1] 1 WC Sardaukar A (War Cruiser - 1,499,500 tons [each])
[Deploy Location 1] 1 NDN Chains of Servitude (Nova Dreadnaught - 92,355,000 tons [each])
[Deploy Location 1] 1 BB Junior Worm (Battleship - 5,120,000 tons [each])
<100,000 Advanced Construction Materials>--<27 Colony Beacon>--<11,151,649 Fuel>
<17 Imperial Army Mechanized Infantry>--<55 System Probe>
------------------------------- ** Imperial Navy Report: Fleet Order of Battle ** ------------------------------------------
MacroHard # 2496 [Rainbow Stripes]
Scout [ROE: X] *Standard Line* (Fleet Tonnage: 3,564,000)
[Deploy Location 1] 3240 AUXL NanoBOT (Light Auxiliary - 1,100 tons [each])
<788,100 Fuel>
------------------------------- ** Imperial Navy Report: Fleet Order of Battle ** ------------------------------------------
Phoenix Empire # 3587 [Cat's Paw On A Field Of Orange, Encircled By Stars]
Homeworld PDC [ROE: W] *Standard Line* (Fleet Tonnage: 167,610,400)
[Deploy Location 1] 490 SOX lgrazer (Surface Outpost - 1,400 tons [each])
[Deploy Location 1] 1 SOX Cargo1000 (Surface Outpost - 1,000 tons [each])
[Deploy Location 1] 6144 SOX tach324 (Surface Outpost - 1,000 tons [each])
[Deploy Location 2] 1 CTX Lion (Planetary Citadel - 134,544,000 tons [each])
[Deploy Location 12] 1 PFX Lioness (Planetary Fortress - 26,235,400 tons [each])
Fleet 1001 [ROE: Q] *Column Attack* (Fleet Tonnage: 2,700,000)
[Deploy Location 7] 2700 SOX tach324 (Surface Outpost - 1,000 tons [each])
2000th EXPL Group [ROE: Q] *Column Attack* (Fleet Tonnage: 15,000)
[Deploy Location 7] 10 CO Lightgrazer (Corvette - 1,500 tons [each])
** Battle Damage Assessment Report **
**DESTROYED** [181st] BM Inquiry of Flame (Monitor - 2,112,000 tons) [Integrity: 0 / 401,310,600] [Shields: 0 /
2,000,000,000] (Green, Timid)
20,000 Cargo Bay, 3 Drone Rack, 40 Fuel Shuttle, 335,000 Fuel Tankage, 330 Mk I Total Conversion Engine
800 Mk IV Meson Screen, 8,000 Mk IX Force Shield, 1 Mk VI Jump Survey Sensor, 1 Nuclear Transwarp Drive
400,000 Tckon 68, 1 Troop Berthing, 1 Type D Spinal Meson Accelerator
**DESTROYED** [180th] BB Junior Worm (Battleship - 5,120,000 tons) [Integrity: 0 / 252,878,000] [Shields: 0 /
2,500,000,000] (Green, Timid)
1,100,000 Cargo Bay, 1 Drone Rack, 100 Fuel Shuttle, 800,000 Fuel Tankage, 1,200 Mk I Gravitic Thruster
10,000 Mk IX Force Shield, 1 Mk VI Jump Survey Sensor, 1 Nuclear Transwarp Drive, 250,000 Tckon 68
Imperial Demonic Envelopment Page 19 of 431 Saturday, March 07, 2009 737
5 Type D Spinal Meson Accelerator
**DESTROYED** [359th] WC Sardaukar A (War Cruiser - 1,499,500 tons) [Integrity: 0 / 400,875,700] [Shields: 0 /
1,000,000,000] (Green, Timid)
10,000 Cargo Bay, 2 Drone Rack, 300 FCS-1 Archer Fire Control, 20 Fuel Shuttle, 175,000 Fuel Tankage
210 Holographic Battle Display, 80 Holographic Neural-Feed Battle Grid, 235 Mk I Total Conversion Engine
4,000 Mk IX Force Shield, 1 Mk VI Jump Survey Sensor, 1 Nuclear Transwarp Drive, 400,000 Tckon 68
2 Troop Berthing, 1 Type D Spinal Meson Accelerator
-------------------------------------------------- DepLoc 1 ------------------------------------------------------------
**DESTROYED** [360th] NDN Chains of Servitude (Nova Dreadnaught - 92,355,000 tons) [Integrity: 0 / 2,075,230,000] [Shields:
0 / 80,000,000,000] (Green, Timid)
25,000 Cargo Bay, 1,000 Fuel Shuttle, 12,000,000 Fuel Tankage, 13,000 Mk I Total Conversion Engine
6 Mk IV Holographic Cybernetic Battle Director, 320,000 Mk IX Force Shield, 1 Mk VI Jump Survey Sensor
1 Nuclear Transwarp Drive, 2,000,000 Tckon 68, 120 Type D Spinal Meson Accelerator
Particle Beam: 23,654,400,513
Maneuverability: 36.03, Missile Defense: 50.00 %
**DESTROYED** [2308th] NDNF Leviathan of the Deep (Flag Nova Dreadnaught - 464,500,000 tons) [Integrity: 0 / 20,381,655,680]
[Shields: 0 / 375,000,000,000] (Green, Timid)
10,000 Cargo Bay, 2 Drone Rack, 969 Fuel Shuttle, 46,450,300 Fuel Tankage, 1 Mk I Flag Bridge
852 Mk I Total Conversion Engine, 10,931 Mk IV Gravitic Thruster, 46 Mk IV Holographic Cybernetic Battle Director
232,250 Mk IV Meson Screen, 1,500,000 Mk IX Force Shield, 2 Mk VI Jump Survey Sensor, 1 Nuclear Transwarp Drive
20,000,000 Tckon 68, 206 Type D Spinal Meson Accelerator, 44 Type D Spinal Starbore
Fusion: 96,800,002,098, Particle Beam: 40,606,720,880
Maneuverability: 8.00, Meson Web: 66.70 %, Missile Defense: 50.00 %
** Battle Damage Assessment Report **
-------------------------------------------------- DepLoc 1 ------------------------------------------------------------
SOX Cargo1000 (Surface Outpost - 1,000 tons) [Integrity: 1 / 1] (Green, Timid)
1,000 Cargo Bay
**DESTROYED** [1584th] SOX lgrazer (Surface Outpost - 1,400 tons) [Integrity: 0 / 12,600] (Green, Timid)
1 Light Graser, 1 Mk II Long Range Sensor
Coherent Beam: 11,440
Sensors: 58.90 %
AUXL NanoBOT (Light Auxiliary - 1,100 tons) [Integrity: 200,560 / 200,560] (Green, Timid)
300 Fuel Tankage, 2 Holographic Neural-Feed Battle Grid, 1 Light Fusion Bolt, 1 Mk I Nuclear Jump Drive
1 Mk IV Antimatter Engine, 200 Tckon 68
Fusion: 2,112
Maneuverability: 58.18, Missile Defense: 50.00 %
COZ Screen Echo (Assault Corvette - 1,000 tons) [Integrity: 500,320 / 500,320] (Green, Timid)
100 Fuel Tankage, 2 Holographic Neural-Feed Battle Grid, 1 Mk I Total Conversion Engine, 1 Mk II Nuclear Jump Drive
500 Tckon 68
Maneuverability: 256.00, Missile Defense: 50.00 %
SOX tach324 (Surface Outpost - 1,000 tons) [Integrity: 5,403,600 / 5,403,600] (Green, Timid)
4 Holographic Neural-Feed Battle Grid, 600 Tckon 68
-------------------------------------------------- DepLoc 2 ------------------------------------------------------------
CTX Lion (Planetary Citadel - 134,544,000 tons) [Integrity: 315,791,721,000 / 315,791,721,000] [Shields: 410,000,000 /
410,000,000] (Green, Timid)
7 400cm Spinal Rail Gun, 45,000 Holographic Neural-Feed Battle Grid, 175 Mk II Holographic Cybernetic Battle Director
15,000 Mk IV Deflector, 1,640 Mk IX Force Shield, 22 Repair Bay, 1,280 Siege Tachyon Blaster
35,000,000 Tckon 68, 4,000 Type D Disintegrator
Energy Disruptor: 7,040,000,153, Matter Disruptor: 7,040,000,153, Particle Beam: 5,406,720,117
Projectile: 1,261,568,027
Deflectors: 30.90 %
-------------------------------------------------- DepLoc 7 ------------------------------------------------------------
**DESTROYED** [1172nd] CO Lightgrazer (Corvette - 1,500 tons) [Integrity: 0 / 1,480] (Green, Timid)
1 Light Graser, 1 Mk II Long Range Sensor, 1 Mk III Fusion Engine
Coherent Beam: 11,440
Maneuverability: 2.67, Missile Defense: 25.00 %, Sensors: 57.20 %
-------------------------------------------------- DepLoc 12 ------------------------------------------------------------
PFX Lioness (Planetary Fortress - 26,235,400 tons) [Integrity: 108,137,568,600 / 108,137,568,600] [Shields: 1,000,000,000 /
1,000,000,000] (Green, Timid)
25,000 Holographic Neural-Feed Battle Grid, 50 Mk I Long Range Sensor, 9,000 Mk IV Deflector
2,000 Mk IV Repulsor CIDS, 4,000 Mk IX Force Shield, 11,913 Mk VII Standoff Missile, 7 Repair Bay
12,000,000 Tckon 68
Missile: 2,439,782,400
Deflectors: 57.90 %, Missile Defense: 23.40 %, Sensors: 0.20 %
Imperial Demonic Envelopment Page 20 of 431 Saturday, March 07, 2009 737
----- Post-Battle Damage Assessment Report-----
Side 1
[1] 1 Chains of Servitude class NDN..................................................1 Destroyed
[1] 1 Inquiry of Flame class BM..................................................1 Destroyed
[1] 1 Junior Worm class BB..................................................1 Destroyed
[1] 1 {Flagship} Leviathan of the Dee class NDNF..................................................1 Destroyed
[1] 1 Sardaukar A class WC..................................................1 Destroyed
Side 2
[1] 1 Cargo1000 class SOX
[1] 490 lgrazer class SOX..................................................62 Destroyed
[1] 3,240 NanoBOT class AUXL..................................................382 Destroyed
[1] 4,933 Screen Echo class COZ..................................................574 Destroyed
[1] 8,844 tach324 class SOX..................................................1284 Destroyed
[2] 1 Lion class CTX
[7] 10 Lightgrazer class CO..................................................1 Destroyed
[12] 1 Lioness class PFX
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[Flagritz]

Only had a quick scan, however none of the screens were purely armor, some had engines some had weapons.

I wonder if the flag-bridges ensure a proportion of the firepower is directed at ships with weapons, however those ships with weapons closer to the front get targeted first...

While the flagbridge may be best for screen fleets which are just armour maybe they arent the solution for screen fleets which are made up of other items.

However the Phoenix screens are not as strong as a pure 1000 ton tckon 68 surface fortress, this then reopens the door for small high FC ships to clear the screens prior to the main fleet being committed.

What I suggest is that you send me the ANZ for flagbridges, Ill have a good look, I think by analysing the prequisites and description I can come up with a better explanation for you...... its worth a try! :}

[General Miles Avatar]

Flagritz, on Mar 7 2009, 04:55 PM, said:

Only had a quick scan, however none of the screens were purely armor, some had engines some had weapons.

I wonder if the flag-bridges ensure a proportion of the firepower is directed at ships with weapons, however those ships with weapons closer to the front get targeted first...

While the flagbridge may be best for screen fleets which are just armour maybe they arent the solution for screen fleets which are made up of other items.

However the Phoenix screens are not as strong as a pure 1000 ton tckon 68 surface fortress, this then reopens the door for small high FC ships to clear the screens prior to the main fleet being committed.

What I suggest is that you send me the ANZ for flagbridges, Ill have a good look, I think by analysing the prequisites and description I can come up with a better explanation for you...... its worth a try! :}

Seems any enemy ship with a weapon is a threat and is dealt with accordingly. Hmmmm. Perhaps this is a hint to design REAL screen ships not just slugs.

[Lord Deependra]

The attackers only had 5 ships which doesn't give the flagship much protection. I wonder how early in the fight the flagship was destroyed.

[cestvel]

As 2308th ship. And the non-screen ships were not evenhit by a stray ray.

Not even one point of damage to the PDX in Deploc 2. Nope, the Flag Bridge clearly did not work at all.

[Lord Deependra]

Without knowing what the Flag Bridge is SUPPOSED to do, it looks like it took the non-military ships out of the equation when targetting. If a ship has weapons, computers or defensive systems, its still a valid target.
The nett effect of the Mk I Flag Bridge would seem to be to remove unarmed transports and lumps of armour from the battle. Not exactly the technology needed to make screens obsolete. I wonder what the Mk II Flag Bridge does?

[sir smeg]

From a brief look through you seem to be missing navel commanders, something I vaguley rember the Gremloids saying where a requirement.

Sir Smeg

[WKE235]

I think in a previous discussion it was clearly shown the MK I Flag Bridge removes junk ships, those with no weapons, from the target selection. But ships with weapons, including CIDS, were still in the selection list.

So when I look this over, I see this ship:

SOX tach324 (Surface Outpost - 1,000 tons) [Integrity: 5,403,600 / 5,403,600] (Green, Timid)
4 Holographic Neural-Feed Battle Grid, 600 Tckon 68

Basically nothing but armor and computers, was fired on?! (1,284 of 8,844 lost). Now that DOES surprise me. If anything with a computer is considered a viable target (any computer adds to the fire control ratings of the fleet, so perhaps that is considered dangerous??), then yes,screens are still king. I mean even junk ships can all be given a mk I computer, or something similar, just so they get shot at.

Since this was a mixed fleet action, I would check with Pete. My thought is the tach324 and Screen Echo ships should have been ignored as they have no weapons and no CIDS .. just armor, computers, and engines. Since they were not ignored, my guess would be the flag ship presence was not applied in the battle due to the mixed fleet (two races .. only one with a flag ship .. so no flag ship applied). I would hope that is an error.

[cestvel]

sir smeg, on Mar 8 2009, 05:44 AM, said:

From a brief look through you seem to be missing navel commanders, something I vaguley rember the Gremloids saying where a requirement.

Sir Smeg

The IDE had commanders and they owned the Flagship.

But WKE has a point. Maybe the Bene Gesserit were battle leaders when merged and Flag Bridge was
completely ignored. That would explain the results the best way.

Lord Deependra, on Mar 8 2009, 04:37 AM, said:

Without knowing what the Flag Bridge is SUPPOSED to do, it looks like it took the non-military ships out of the equation when targetting. If a ship has weapons, computers or defensive systems, its still a valid target.
The nett effect of the Mk I Flag Bridge would seem to be to remove unarmed transports and lumps of armour from the battle. Not exactly the technology needed to make screens obsolete. I wonder what the Mk II Flag Bridge does?

From its description higher Flag Bridges only add more value to Ground Exploration.

[Locklyn]

It might be that something was missed if Pete didn't supervise this battle. Pete has told me that in allied fleet actions, only one race needs have the flagship in its fleet for its effect to count for all allied fleets as was the case with BOB, BHD and GGT vs Hellenic League actions. I must admit though that as all my Flag Bridge battles were advertised to Pete before the action, they might have had a bit more hands on action by Pete?

The results of this battle seem contrary to what Pete has described to me about Flag Bridges but then again he might have changed something and forgot to tell us,

Cheers

/Locklyn

[WKE235]

Locklyn, on Mar 8 2009, 11:39 PM, said:

It might be that something was missed if Pete didn't supervise this battle. Pete has told me that in allied fleet actions, only one race needs have the flagship in its fleet for its effect to count for all allied fleets as was the case with BOB, BHD and GGT vs Hellenic League actions. I must admit though that as all my Flag Bridge battles were advertised to Pete before the action, they might have had a bit more hands on action by Pete?

The results of this battle seem contrary to what Pete has described to me about Flag Bridges but then again he might have changed something and forgot to tell us,

Cheers

/Locklyn

I think we are in agreement .. contact Pete, have him look into it. The battle may have to be rerun.

Of course I suspect you will still lose a rerun battle. I mean they will still have 3000+ screens firing weapons, and that will draw some firepower away from the 517 Billion hit point strong forts. But I suspect many shots will get through, and you will damage the ground installations, perhaps severely. The only question is how much damage will you do.

[hobknob]

If the flag bridges can't tell the difference between a screen ship with a pop gun and a surface fort dishing out Billions of damage then they will do very little to reduce the numbers and frequency of screen usage in the game.

I am certainly glad I have not eliminated all those XSHIP orders....

[Locklyn]

Well I am still building 15,000 screens per turn untill I have seen that it is the way of the future...but I have also started building destroyer and cruiser sized screens to counter that possibility.

Pete, any chance of a feedback?

Cheers
/Locklyn

[Coconutheads]

Bump

[WKE235]

Have you contacted Pete and heard anything back????