7 replies to this topic

[dageraad]

Why are some nations more succesfull than others?

First, lets define “success”. Most important resource to define succes is to make it to RTG “Survivors”- list. As of game #77 the score is
:


This way of measuring the succes of a nation is not without drawbacks. It does not measure why a certain nation is dropped, which nations were dropped in which turn of the game ande which nations were never started to begin with. But it is a measure of success. And Baltic states and Syria are 3x as succesfull as France.

Why?

First, lets look at the position of the nations. One would guess that nations at the outside would be more succesfull als countries near the center, as the center has far more competition.

`
:

The map above presents a measure of competition for each nation. The numbers are composed of
# Neighbors over land
+ #(Neighbors of neighbors over land)/2
+1 if bordering on sea
+1 if port

Periferal nations on the eastern edge of the map tend to be more succesfull. But not on the southern, northern and western edge.

Lets look to the economy:




No pattern here. Northern Russia has a strong economy and is succesfull. But So has France, and it is not. Both Baltic states and Syria have a weak economy, but they are succesfull.
Maybe there is no pattern. But I still have the nagging feeling that France is a real challenge,

[Rogue Leader]

Many times it's a matter of luck. Who drops and when. I took France to the end in a game where many dropped for no reason. England, Spain, Portugal and North Africa all dropped for non game related reasons. I did have a good battle against Lowlands to start followed by a great air battle against Poland and Bulgaria. Saudia and Turkey won, but it was fairly close.

If you come in with a team it's also a matter of what countries you end up with.

[Rogue Leader]

I like playing countries that can have aic nets that can be independent. I REALLY hate railing food. Saudi really sucks. After you run out of start-up supplies you're railing all the time.

I also like medium sized countries that can grow economically. It's a thrill to rake in 5K from your home country. Spain, France and Iraq were great. I really want to try Persia. That looks like a great country to play. I really dislike the Scandanavian countries. The north really sucks for counting on air strikes.

[Kurassier]

Also, you need to factor in the proximity of resources to borders. If I remember correctly, France has the majority of it's resources on it's border with Lowlands, Germany and Switzerland. Awfully tempting. IN addition, France has several nations nearby that have limited options.
Spain vs. Portugal, or France (and if Portugal, France is next) with a 3rd option of Morocco.
Lowlands vs. Germany or France.
GB, if not fighting Ireland, vs. France.
and don't forget that eventually, Canada, US and Iceland need to land somewhere.
France is a pain, kudos to Rogue Leader, Des and any others who have succeeded as France.

And all the big countries have to rail things ALL the time. Playing Central Russia in 81 and it seems half my orders are MCRs every turn.

[Rogue Leader]

Kurassier, on Jun 9 2009, 06:36 PM, said:

Also, you need to factor in the proximity of resources to borders. If I remember correctly, France has the majority of it's resources on it's border with Lowlands, Germany and Switzerland. Awfully tempting. IN addition, France has several nations nearby that have limited options.
Spain vs. Portugal, or France (and if Portugal, France is next) with a 3rd option of Morocco.
Lowlands vs. Germany or France.
GB, if not fighting Ireland, vs. France.
and don't forget that eventually, Canada, US and Iceland need to land somewhere.
France is a pain, kudos to Rogue Leader, Des and any others who have succeeded as France.

And all the big countries have to rail things ALL the time. Playing Central Russia in 81 and it seems half my orders are MCRs every turn.

I liked Central. There is some railing going on, particularly to Moscow, heavy to the east. Nice that food isn't an issue. I didn't think it was that bad.

[Erich von Manstein]

dageraad, on Jun 9 2009, 11:01 AM, said:

Why are some nations more succesfull than others?

First, lets define “success”. Most important resource to define succes is to make it to RTG “Survivors”- list. As of game #77 the score is
:


This way of measuring the succes of a nation is not without drawbacks. It does not measure why a certain nation is dropped, which nations were dropped in which turn of the game ande which nations were never started to begin with. But it is a measure of success. And Baltic states and Syria are 3x as succesfull as France.

Why?

First, lets look at the position of the nations. One would guess that nations at the outside would be more succesfull als countries near the center, as the center has far more competition.

`
:

The map above presents a measure of competition for each nation. The numbers are composed of
# Neighbors over land
+ #(Neighbors of neighbors over land)/2
+1 if bordering on sea
+1 if port

Periferal nations on the eastern edge of the map tend to be more succesfull. But not on the southern, northern and western edge.

Lets look to the economy:




No pattern here. Northern Russia has a strong economy and is succesfull. But So has France, and it is not. Both Baltic states and Syria have a weak economy, but they are succesfull.
Maybe there is no pattern. But I still have the nagging feeling that France is a real challenge,

LOVE your maps.


But I think survival depends on three things:

- Quality/determination of you & your TA's
- Quality of your opponent(s)
- A bit of luck


Von Manstein

[Rednas]

Erich von Manstein, on Jun 10 2009, 01:44 PM, said:

dageraad, on Jun 9 2009, 11:01 AM, said:

Why are some nations more succesfull than others?

First, lets define “success”. Most important resource to define succes is to make it to RTG “Survivors”- list. As of game #77 the score is
:


This way of measuring the succes of a nation is not without drawbacks. It does not measure why a certain nation is dropped, which nations were dropped in which turn of the game ande which nations were never started to begin with. But it is a measure of success. And Baltic states and Syria are 3x as succesfull as France.

Why?

First, lets look at the position of the nations. One would guess that nations at the outside would be more succesfull als countries near the center, as the center has far more competition.

`
:

The map above presents a measure of competition for each nation. The numbers are composed of
# Neighbors over land
+ #(Neighbors of neighbors over land)/2
+1 if bordering on sea
+1 if port

Periferal nations on the eastern edge of the map tend to be more succesfull. But not on the southern, northern and western edge.

Lets look to the economy:




No pattern here. Northern Russia has a strong economy and is succesfull. But So has France, and it is not. Both Baltic states and Syria have a weak economy, but they are succesfull.
Maybe there is no pattern. But I still have the nagging feeling that France is a real challenge,

LOVE your maps.


But I think survival depends on three things:

- Quality/determination of you & your TA's
- Quality of your opponent(s)
- A bit of luck


Von Manstein

Manni,

I agree, but the luck component you must reduce, because a sound plan, objectives, focus, good co-operation with your TA's are as that important than 18 divisions. If you want to be safe for a couple of turns play an island, or play USA and become TA with Canada, or Norway and become TA with Sweden etc.

Greetings Rednas Ruler of Greater France VIC79.

[Race Pilsner]

I think France sucks air regularly because it has a lot of bordering states in the game (5) and three of those borders represent nations with limited opening game options.

Germany has the highest number but if you exclude East Prussia (removing Baltic States border from Germany) and include Britan as a border for France, they are nearly equal in number. Also, Germany isn't such an attractive target for the states south of it early in the game. Switzerland needs food production and there is little of that in Southern Germany. Austria has little of value to target inside Germany on his border. Poland has most of his assets on the German border. Denmark has a narrow access route which isn't too hard to defend. I think these are all factors in why Germany finishes more games than France.

Also, Germany of course always has German Tech which has strong ground and air units at the beginning of the game. France can have any tech and if a player takes American or British tech when playing France they will likely get to test it's effectiveness against German Tech.

Add to that the likelyhood that France will be attacked by food poor Switzerland, or by Spain (which has only two real possible opening game moves), or by Lowlands (which also has very limited opening game options), or by all of them because a big party is more fun than a little one. Clearly France is a nation with real likelyhood of excitement from turn 3 onwards, and almost as certainly with multiple suitors to contend with simultaniously.

Baltic States on the other hand only really borders Poland, Northern Russia, and Central Russia. Also, Baltic States looks like a boxing glove so a lot of players probably assume it could be very dangerous to attack. Syria is full of crazy radical people (no offense intended of course) so I am assuming many would be equally reluctant to attack Syria.


Race Pilsner