170 replies to this topic

[Viro]

Hello,

This is sort of a doozy of a first post, so I've highlighted the questions for the people you read (i.e. briefly scan) the way I do when I see a blob of text.

The vast majority of my questions have been answered by other beginner threads (this one, and this one, and this one), but most of those posts are from the 2004-2005 era.

Which leads me to my first question: Is the advice given in those threads (regarding lifeform design) from 2004/05 still appropriate? Or have there been major changes in the mechanics or gameplay style of newer players?I've developed an interesting lifeform and empire that I'm fond of and would even roleplay with when appropriate, but with a DB of -8 I don't expect to be doing much ground combat, is this a fair assumption?

I've ran across many suggestions to setup the same lifeform multiple times, so as to get a good home system. My problem with this is, I can't afford to spend $40 on 4 setup tries, and second, I probably wouldn't know a great system from a mediocre one. Is running multiple setups a "must do" thing? Plus it seems like creating 4 empires and abandoning 3 is akin to littering the universe?

One of the main reasons I've chosen SuperNova is because of the sheer magnitude of the gameverse, and from what I've read in the forums, SN provides a great opportunity for the hacker in me to whip up and maintain some custom tools to aid the administration of my future empire. However, right now I'm worried that the Turn Entry program will not work on Linux. I've muddled about with wine, and gotten it to a state where it crashes asking for "SN Turn Entry Data." Are there any current players out there using the Turn Entry program in Linux?

Mental Powers.. I've imbued my lifeform with Class 4 of two of the mental powers, because it fits into the story of their evolution. However, I've just done a search on the forums and according to these threads as of 2003 and 2006 Mental powers provide:
* Ground Combat Bonuses (I plan to be avoiding this, -1)
* Access to certain WMDs (WMDs probably won't be used by my lifeform, -1)
* Small bonuses to Exploration and Diplomacy (Definitely going to be doing, so +1)
So is 400 SPs of Class 4 Mental Powers worth the small bonuses to exploration and diplomacy?

Finally, because SN is a slow paced game.. can I really make some awful decisions in designing my lifeform that will prevent me from having fun in the game (such as a Tiny, CB -8, pure avian lifeform.. think hummingbird philosophers in space)? It seems like given enough time everything will sorta work itself out.

I apologize for the huge thread, but I wanted to be as clear as possible.. so I can join asap! (When is the next turn due btw?)

Many thanks

[BlendMeAnother]

First thing everyone will want to know is if you sent in your setup already?

Most people are very helpful on the boards so ask away.

The rest is my opinion.

Mental powers are not needed for a good character, some may say it is a waste.
You will need ground combat capability if you plan to defend your home world if it gets attacked or take over a player world.
There are tech's that let you build up your race treats later in the game so you do not have to have a perfect start.
The only setup I would consider bad is if you did not have a gas giant in your home system, I think that is pretty rare, you are safe with just one setup.
Do not spend all your setup points. Save around 500, you get to use them to quickly advance in some research categories.

You can email me at blendmeanother@yahoo.com

[Viro]

BlendMeAnother, on Jul 29 2009, 02:39 PM, said:

First thing everyone will want to know is if you sent in your setup already?
Mental powers are not needed for a good character, some may say it is a waste.
You will need ground combat capability if you plan to defend your home world if it gets attacked or take over a player world.
There are tech's that let you build up your race treats later in the game so you do not have to have a perfect start.
The only setup I would consider bad is if you did not have a gas giant in your home system, I think that is pretty rare, you are safe with just one setup.
Do not spend all your setup points. Save around 500, you get to use them to quickly advance in some research categories.

Nope, I haven't sent in my setup yet... I wanted to get some answers to my questions before sending it in.

That's what I'm trying to determine exactly.. am I wasting SPs by maxing in two of the mental powers for RP reasons? (I think atm I have around 650 SPs left)

Is -8 DB insanely low? I assume most 2000pt lifeforms have some mega positive DB bonuses.

[LenLorek]

Hi Viro, and welcome to the SNROTE universe. I will atempt to answer some of your questions based upon my experiences of this game, but I am sure that some other players will disagree or elaborate further depending upon their experiences.

Last things first: the next game turn deadline is the end of Tuesday, August 4, 2009. The deadlines are every two weeks.

If you feel that you have made a mistake with your chosen species characteristics, then you will be able to compensate with Technology Research (including genetic engineering) -- technological advance is a Very Important part of this game so do not neglect this area; but be aware that you cannot possibly research in all directions, so plan well. If in doubt, you could do worse than research the "Improved ..." and then "Advanced ..." items that will be needed for the higher tech ship components (the various weapons and their specific defenses, shields/armor, engines, jump drives, bridge, etc) and planetary installations.

You are correct that the mental powers' greatest advantages are in Ground Combat. But, as you have noted, there are other (lesser) advantages as well.

If you enjoy designing, creating and working with spreadsheets, then you have joined the ideal game! Early on, SNROTE was nicknamed "Spreadsheets in Space" by someone (can't remember who) -- and it is as apt now as it ever was. Also, Cestvel's SNFindPath has been of great help to me, so download it even though you won't need it until you have explored several star systems.

I have heard about these rich players who can afford to pay for and scrap starting positions. I am not one of them, and I suspect that such players are in a tiny minority. You will enjoy playing your chosen race better than playing the numbers, until you meet a hostile neighbor when you will need to start playing the numbers. You will enjoy playing with friends/allies even more, which keeps the game sociable and enables you to share information (to expand the data in your spreadsheets) and tips/suggestions (including advice on Technology Research that suits your Empire), so I strongly advise that you join an alliance or start your own -- I think that most of the existing alliances in SNROTE are filled with experienced players who may not want a newbie, so you may find it easier to join or create an alliance of newbies.

Ground Combat is less important than Space Combat -- unless/until you find an enemy's home world (which may take you a year or more of game play), when Ground Combat becomes a very desirable element of the game!

I have never used Linux, so I can not help you there.

If you make mistakes with your orders (which you will), don't worry too much -- because of the length of this game, the consequences of your mistakes will diminish over time until you forget that you ever made them. Also, remember that we all make mistakes, including your neighbors in the game, so it kinda evens out.

The changes in game mechanics that I recall since the start of SNROTE all those years ago: there are 40 orders to an order block, not 30; in space combat, massive numbers of screens are the best tactic until your enemy acquires Flag Bridge technology (and even then there is some dispute among players); Cloaking Technology has been crippled for game balance purposes; sensors are not needed to detect ships of other Empires; Legendary Characters do not need to be transported by ship, they can be instantly transferred from anywhere to anywhere (even to far away star systems) using the AC order; your diplomatic stance with regard to other Empires (Alliance, Non-Agression Pact, War, etc) does not need a meeting of the Empires' diplomats.


I hope this helps!

[hobknob]

From my perspective most of the advice that was posted years ago is still pretty valid, however there are some areas that may need an update based on current happenings.

Early on it was very common to find lifeforms with minimums everywhere to keep as many SRP's as possible. Many of those positions found themselves in a bind later when they had very poor ground combat capabilities. In addition, you really don't need more than 600-700 SRP's.

When looking at your design you have to remember that the +'s and -'s are not equal. Having 8 -'s tells one nothing really. Some of them may be worth a 10% penalty, some 5 or some other value.

Me personally, I would only take 1 level in the mental powers. That would save you 300 points to save or to offset some of those negative values on your design.

What ever you do, you will want to save some SRP's to get a jump on your tech research. I try and get 600-700, but that is a soft number. If you only have 300 that will work as well. Much depends on how you want to play.

Starting systems. There are good ones and lousy ones and you can't really tell from a single glance in most cases. If you are setting yourself up to be a terrible colonizer then you are really just concerned with your HW and what it can provide. If you are a colonizer then having planets/moons to colonize in your home system is important. So, for the non colonizer you really care about what resources your HW can provide. If you don't have them on your HW then you will have to create them from Raw which is doable at the first but very limiting later on. The resource that seems to create the most problems is Crystals IMHO. For the colonizer you need a couple of planets in your system that have low attrition. this probably means similar temps and same atmosphere as your HW, in addition they need to be worthwhile to colonize meaning they can provide some resources that you need and may be either missing or in short supply on the HW. Another factor is temperature, IMHO colder is better here. If you start on a cold world then you can more easily get to asteroids and planets with vacuum for atmosphere. If you are warmer then you can't. It's that simple.

I run several positions and basically the cold ones can colonize and the hot ones can't. You don't have to colonize, but you will want to at some point.

Also, in my opinion, having no or few negatives is a good thing. You should also know that even though it is not spelled out in the rules, you take negatives for below average strength, size and agility so being tiny has some big disadvantages that don't show up in the +/-'s of the rules.

However, any position can be a good position and just about any lifeform can be a good one. A lifeform that you like is certainly preferable to one that tries to max/min the design criteria. try out what you want and if you have regrets, you can always try it again. Many do.

Don't hesitate to ask more specific questions either on the board or in private. There are many here who will be glad to give you a helping hand.

Good luck.

[Lord Deependra]

There have been a few new orders added/changed.

DECF (Decommission Fleet)
The DECF order can now be used to send all your empty fleets back to your homeworld in a single order. Enter the keyword HOME as the Fleet ID # and all fleets with no ships in them will be relocated to your homeworld.

DELS (Delete Standing Order)
Used to delete up to five standing orders (identified by their priority number)
DELS, [Priority #], [Priority #], [Priority #], [Priority #], [Priority #],

ESTA (Edit Standing Order Priority)
Change the priority # of up to five standing orders
ESTA, [Priority # to Edit], [New Priority #], [Priority # to Edit], [New Priority #], [Priority # to Edit], [New Priority #], [Priority # to Edit], [New Priority #], [Priority # to Edit], [New Priority #]

EXIL (Exile Character)
Exile a specific character
EXIL, [Character ID#]

FNAM (Rename Fleets)
A new order, FNAM has been added – it is very similar to the NAME (Name Legendary Characters) order, allowing you to rename up to five fleets per FNAM.
FNAM, [Fleet #], [New Name], [Fleet #], [New Name], [Fleet #], [New Name], [Fleet #], [New Name], [Fleet #], [New Name],

FOB (Fleet Order of Battle)
Gives an analysis of the fleet
FOB, [Fleet ID#]

JETT (Jettison Cargo)
The JETT order no longer requires an action point.
If you Jettison a System Beacon, your fleet will deploy a System Beacon. There is no point in deploying more than one System Beacon at once in the same system.

MESS (Send Message)
An order to send standard messages in-game to another empire.
The MESS order can be used to send any text that you like. Since there isn't much room in the entry box for a long message, enter a MESS order and then head to the Edit Orders screen to change the message to meet your needs. If you want to include information such as your email address or phone number, just type that into your message. Please keep your messages free of profanity and in the spirit of the game.

DECF (Decommision Fleet)
The DECF (Decommission Fleet) order can be used to send all of your empty fleets back to your homeworld in a single order. Enter the keyword HOME as the Fleet ID # and all fleets with no ships in them will be relocated at your homeworld.

NUD (Naval Unit Deisgn)
The NUD (Naval Unit Design) order can be used to alter the Mission Class of an existing ship, surface fortress or orbital installation design. Issue an NUD with the same name as an existing design and the order will change that design's Mission Class to that indicated in the NUD. The NUD order will no longer rename new ship designs with the '-A' series if you issue an NUD with a design name already in use; instead, it will alter Mission Class.

PAP (Political Action Proposal)
You can set any level of alliance you like with this order, which is used primarily to allow for complex Rules of Engagement fleet settings. The level of alliance you choose is one-way: that is, you can indicate that you treat the other empire as an “alliance”, but he could do a PAP order and set a relationship with your empire as a “trade pact”. Both parties do not need to issue PAP orders at the same time. One could issue a PAP and the other does not ever have to reciprocate.
PAP, [Empire #], [Agreement]

REVO (Instigate Revolution)
Used to change your primary government type, secondary government type and/or imperial tradition (also allows you to specify the title of your new emperor). May be issued once every 25 turns.
REVO, [new primary govt type], [new secondary govt type], [new Imperial Tradition], [new Emperor title]

TAC (Ground Force Tactical Ratings)
Gives analysis of an army, showing all the tactical ratings from your technology and units.
TAC, [Army ID#]

Lists for LC (Load Cargo) and OC (Offload Cargo) have been added. During execution of an LC, ALL order, if an item is found in the Load Cargo exclusion list, that item will not load. It is skipped as if it was not present in the population group. The same is true for OC, ALL orders - items in Fleet Cargo will be skipped if they are encountered during an OC, ALL order and are listed in your OC exclusion list. To add items to your LC exclusion list, issue an LC order with the special keyword GLOBAL EXCLUDE as the first item. Example: 'LC, 12345, 25, GLOBAL EXCLUDE, EXCLUDE, Processed Radioactives, EXCLUDE, Light Beam Laser, EXCLUDE ' would add Processed Radioactives and Light Beam Laser to your LC exclude list. This order acts like a toggle, so if either or both of those items happened to be on your LC exclude list already, they would be removed. 'OC, 12345, 501, GLOBAL EXCLUDE, EXCLUDE, Fuel, EXCLUDE, Light Drone, EXCLUDE, Interceptor, EXCLUDE ' would add Fuel, Light Drone and Interceptor to your OC exclude list (or remove them if already on that list). These lists are only checked when an LC, ALL or OC, ALL order is encountered. It is also checked if you happen to enter an LC, ALL NO FUEL or OC, ALL NO FUEL order. The population group and fleet #'s entered in these GLOBAL EXCLUDE LC and OC orders do not matter, because these are global lists used for your entire empire. You can still use the ALL NO FUEL option if you like, but this system sort of replaces it - you could simply add Fuel to your LC exclude list.

Specific LC and OC item exclusions have been added as well, for use with regular versions of those orders. Just list an item like you would normally, but use the keyword EXCLUDE as the quantity and that item will be skipped. Example: OC, 12345, 34, Construction Materials, 25000, Fuel, EXCLUDE, Crystals, 10000 would load Construction Materials and Crystals but would skip loading Fuel. These specific exclusions are checked during LC, ALL or OC, ALL orders as well as regular LC and OC orders. For the most part I'd expect the global lists to have items added such as Fuel, Processed Radioactives and Water (things needed for Power generation) or OC exclusions for expendables such as fighters or drones. Using specific exclusions during an LC, ALL order would look like this: 'LC, 12345, 25, ALL, 0, Fuel, EXCLUDE, Construction Materials, EXCLUDE, Processed Radioactives, EXCLUDE'. This would load everything from pop group # 12345 onto fleet # 25, but would skip Fuel, Construction Materials and Processed Radioactives. Make sure to put a number in for the quantity field right after the ALL keyword - it isn't used for anything, but you need to get past it to start entering excluded item names...so put some number in there and then start keying in , EXCLUDE pairs as if you were entering a regular LC or OC order.

[cestvel]

New HW setups seem to have imprved by Pete lately. All my newer ones got Iron, Timber and Hydro Power in good yields.
So I think you will be good with the setup you get back from Pete. He even did not set up two of my three positions I sent in, because he thought I only did the one out of three startup, which I did not wanted to have, but I wanted to check out different designs

I was able to get my SNFindPath to run on MacOS using wine, but I was not able to get the Turn Entry Program to function properly (It crashes if you try to enter orders, most likely some not fully implemented fuinction in Wine), but I got it to start up after some
tinkering.

Best bet is to use a VM and use a Windows (yuk!) installation in it for the Turn Entry Program and SNFindPath.

I have posted my extraction tools running on linux, so search for them (using mysql now ) You might find them useful as a hacking type.

Just buy 1st level Mental Abilities, which saves a lot of SRP and research them higher up if you need them.

[Flagritz]

cestvel, on Jul 29 2009, 03:08 PM, said:

New HW setups seem to have imprved by Pete lately. All my newer ones got Iron, Timber and Hydro Power in good yields.
So I think you will be good with the setup you get back from Pete. He even did not set up two of my three positions I sent in, because he thought I only did the one out of three startup, which I did not wanted to have, but I wanted to check out different designs

Shock.... you tried to set-up multiple positions at the same time..... oh wait, lets not ruin this thread also, Ill be good :]


One thing I would advice is to not neglect your industrial capacity, developing the industrial techs to get increased production and access to ICE is hugely important for an empire and should be one of your big priorities. Also Deep core surveyors and better Industrial complexs are really useful. Search the forums for these items and youll have a good idea how to achive them.

While the ability to deploy say level 5 weapons is good, if you can deploy 5 times as many level 4 weapons thats even better!
Looking long term all weapons and shields have a top level so while you might take longer to get there then your neighbors your ability to deploy 3-4 times more then when you do have the ability to produce them will make you a force not to be messed with.

Best advice I was given was to think long term and to think big... advice I wish I was given when I first started! :}

[Lord Deependra]

Oh, and welcome! The galaxy needs more hummingbird philosophers :-)

[WKE235]

Mental Powers.. I've imbued my lifeform with Class 4 of two of the mental powers, because it fits into the story of their evolution. However, I've just done a search on the forums and according to these threads as of 2003 and 2006 Mental powers provide:
* Ground Combat Bonuses (I plan to be avoiding this, -1)
* Access to certain WMDs (WMDs probably won't be used by my lifeform, -1)
* Small bonuses to Exploration and Diplomacy (Definitely going to be doing, so +1)
So is 400 SPs of Class 4 Mental Powers worth the small bonuses to exploration and diplomacy?


In my opinion, buying the class 4 levels right off the bat are a big waste of SP's. I can understand buying level 1. As once you have that, you can research levels 2, 3, and 4. But the rest of the points can be used on better racial traits like Natural Chemical Exchager (nice environmental bonus, good for colonization and combat). Or saved for use on early research (like on techs needed to build transwarp drives).

As for the bonus for diplomacy, any neutral will join you after a series of Diplomatic meetings. The diplo bonus might speed that up by a turn or two, tops. But it definately NOT worth the early spend. And the exploration bonus is also a waste. You get better exploration results with having a scientist on the ship as opposed to anything from mental bonuses.

[Viro]

Thanks everyone

You've been very helpful. I've made 5 lifeforms at this point, and now I have to decide between them. It seems that ground combat, while not used often is important when a gound battle actually occurs.

I found this rule supplement about Revolution and Exile, and noticed that as an example the supplement uses the leader title "Pharaoh." I don't see that in the list of leader titles in the main rulebook, are we allowed to choose a custom title?

Also, I've definitely decided to take only the class 1 mental powers in any lifeform. I admit I'm somewhat sad mental powers don't have the potential to play a bigger role, but I suppose its in the name of balance.

As for "cold worlds" vs "hot worlds." Regarding lifeform design, the only way I can see to make my lifeform prefer cold worlds is by taking the special attributes "Low temp resistent" and/or "High temp sensitive," but these refer to just temperature not atmosphere (which I assume cold worlds have none). Is this dependent on the HW? I.e., if your HW has no atmosphere then your lifeform can probably colonize any 'ol rock big enough to stand on?

Finally, I can't search for "Ice-x" the query is too short, can anyone recommend a few posts or a better search term?

Viro

[cestvel]

I took "Cold Resitant" once and ended up on a pretty cold world, so the SRPs were actually wasted

I got to the notion, that your choices on your lifeform have nothing to do with on what kind of planet you end up.

Save these extra points and buy them later from lifeform engineering if you need them. Then you can decide if you need to be Cold or heat reststant.

[Soerenjev]

Viro, on Jul 30 2009, 08:41 AM, said:

I found this rule supplement about Revolution and Exile, and noticed that as an example the supplement uses the leader title "Pharaoh." I don't see that in the list of leader titles in the main rulebook, are we allowed to choose a custom title?

You can choose whatever title you like.
Choose your Gouvernment wise, as this decides your Character mix.
For ICE:
http://www.rollingth...?showtopic=1999

[Paradigm]

Viro, on Jul 29 2009, 08:59 AM, said:

One of the main reasons I've chosen SuperNova is because of the sheer magnitude of the gameverse, and from what I've read in the forums, SN provides a great opportunity for the hacker in me to whip up and maintain some custom tools to aid the administration of my future empire. However, right now I'm worried that the Turn Entry program will not work on Linux. I've muddled about with wine, and gotten it to a state where it crashes asking for "SN Turn Entry Data." Are there any current players out there using the Turn Entry program in Linux?

It runs under windows under VirtualBox http://www.virtualbo...Linux_Downloads under Linux.

If you are not familiar with VirtualBox, the fully open source version ("ose") is probably available from your distribution's repository which makes it simple and convenient, but that is probably not the latest version so if you really want the latest version, use the above URL. Make sure you install the guest additions as it makes VB more convenient to use, especially the excellent mouse pointer integration. Those are probably also in your repository as "virtualbox-ose-guest-modules*". One thing to keep in mind with those is that they are dependent on the kernel version, so when you upgrade your kernel, you need to upgrade and reinstall the guest additions for that particular kernel version.

I assume this will work for MacOS as well.

[WKE235]

Viro, on Jul 30 2009, 07:41 AM, said:

As for "cold worlds" vs "hot worlds." Regarding lifeform design, the only way I can see to make my lifeform prefer cold worlds is by taking the special attributes "Low temp resistent" and/or "High temp sensitive," but these refer to just temperature not atmosphere (which I assume cold worlds have none). Is this dependent on the HW? I.e., if your HW has no atmosphere then your lifeform can probably colonize any 'ol rock big enough to stand on?

The terms Low or High really are not longer used. It's more of just being "Temperature Sensitive" or "Temperature Resistent". You see, each racial trait provides bonuses, +'s or -'s to overall abilities. The adds and subtracts are in play at all times in all conditions. So when you select a trait like "Temp Resistent" you gain bonuses to colonization, ground combat, close combat, space combat, and overall defensive bonuses.

Think of it this way. Your HW starts with a certain temperature, axial tilt, gravity, and atmosphere. When you go to another planet, it's values are compared to your HW values to get a base value of colonization / survivability based on the differences. This base value is then modified based on the colonization bonuses of your racial traits picked. It's additive, so this bonus applies in all cases. IE, if the world you are looking at has the same temp as your HW, and you choose Temp Resistent, well, the bonus for Temp resistent still applies. So if the HW had an Oxygen atmosphere and this new world Chlorine, that difference is still partially offset by the additive bonus from temp resistent. This same additive nature applies to the Gravity Tolerance items (Low and High do not matter, it's additive).

This makes sense as it's not really fair to pick one of these traits, and then with a random HW find out it provides no value. For example my HW has 4.8 Gravity, and max in the game on Gas Giants is 5.0. If I had picked High Gravity Tolerance as a trait, well, it would have been wasted as nothing would ever had applied to it. By being a general additive that applies in all cases, the racial trait is instead something that can be valued at all times.