24 replies to this topic

[CLEernest]

I took a look at the recent poll about war or peace and was rather suprized. Most people wanted war. I think its just a little pointless. First alleies means you can get lots of new stuff via trading. Also if everyone goes to war I'll have to divert my time from my quest for knowlage to incinerate all you idiots who could be a nusance.

[President Guztov]

Our Star Cruisers will stand ready for your attempt tp 'incinerate' Us. we welcome a little target practice to break up this survey warp survey warp nonsense.

[EternusIV]

War is inevitible. But I wholeheartedly adopt the sentiments of Mr. Ernest.

I think that we will see a lot more bloodshed as people beocme more familiar with their surrounding territory and level of technology.

[Shade]

I think one reason for the high poll numbers on war is the time it is taking people to find other players. Going so long without any combat whatsoever is bound to make people's trigger fingers itchy. Sure, it is going to depend on the type of player, but even those who think war is just another aspect of this game and don't consider themselve only in it for the fighting are going to be itching for some action. Besides, I can't think of a better way to improve your position in this game than taking possession of another homeworld. I don't know, I'm not going to just blast away at whoever I run into, but I'm definetely preparing myself for violent confrontations, I've had lots of destroyer class warships being built regularly now and making plans for a big huge "Flagship" to be built soon. I'm also doing a fair amount of colonization/mining on other worlds, but it just doesn't seem to be doing much to increase my output; I only send about 40 Pop a turn off my homeworld as colonists.

[AKO]

I didn't read the poll as to "What do you want?" but as to "What do you expect?"

Hence, I voted war, looking at quite a few of aggresive posters in these forums. They seem to want war, and then that is what they will get (it needs 2 for peace, only 1 to make war).

So, I do not draw the conclusion that so many want war, but that many anticipate and brace for war to come over them.
Kind regards,

[Azuth]

Ahhhh....I love the smell of Mk VI Plasma bombs in the morning, don't you?

[hobknob]

Well, what else is there to do? This is a war game after all and space conquest doesn't really come without the conquest part.

[USMC_POINTMAN]

Well I would guess you could go to war with just the neutrals. That sounds like fun. :lol:

Bomb the little things and be friends with the real players.

No I think I will find some friends in my Dark part of space and hunt down others that need to be hunted.

Its all fun untell some one gets there butt kicked.

[WKE235]

hobknob, on Jan 30 2004, 03:54 PM, said:

Well, what else is there to do? This is a war game after all and space conquest doesn't really come without the conquest part.

I would question calling this a wargame. A true wargame is an actual game of war; something the simulates the military aspects and activities of war so as to prepare and educate participants for the activity of war. Given the sci-fi genre the educational aspects would be questionable. The overall focus of the game on military matters would also be questionable given the amount of game focus on resources, build queues, and the like. No, better to describe this as a game that has war as one of it's features that players can employ.

An that is the key here. War is a feature than a player can employ. It is not something that you HAVE to carry out in this game, merely an option (an interesting option for many). This game has all four aspects you would find in 4-X type games (eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, eXterminate .. aka War). But, the big difference is other such games are in finite size univerese. In other games you can explore the whole universe, you can expand into all areas, you can exploit all that's best for you, and you can (having nothing left to do) exterminate all the other players.

In SN:ROTE, not every planet will be great for you to settle. Advances in technology may make it easier to settle planets more different than your base racial traits. But, exploiting those tech advances costs R&D (a very limited resource) and materials (for building Domed Cities or Thermal Transfer stations or whatever). From an economic point of view, putting down the items that will get population loss down to an acceptable (or growing) would make the payback costs for many planets still very high. It would be much better for you and an ally (or two) to settle planetary bodies based on your abilities to minimize the amount of lost population and invested resources, maximizing the economic return. And this means sharing systems.

So instead of going out and gunning for other players, you could go out, work with others, and each work towards improving your economies. An added benefit is with trusted allies, each can concentrate on research in specific areas, so with trading you have multiple advanced techs on your ships. Yes, you will still have to build warships. Not all of your neighbors would be as enlightened as you and your allies. But an alliance ship might have 4th generation armor, engines, shields, weapons, computers, etc.... due to trading and working with allies. All the better to defend against the barbarians in other areas of the universe (and make them pay if they start something ... never start a war, but make damn well sure you finish the war in your favor).

[Sha'thar of the Gosht Kohr]

GREAT post!

[EternusIV]

BTW Warmongers out there......

Y'all done the math/figurin' on what it will take to overpower a homeworld?

(typical case scenario) TWO-THREE YEARS of tech just to effectively strike fast and hard enough (AFTER you've surveyed your way all the way there) + your target has produced defenses less than 50-60% of what you're sending in his/her direction.



THATS why there will be Peace for a long while

[Shade]

I don't know...from many of the posts I see, I can imagine a lot of players are not building up lots of defenses.

Most of us haven't found a single player. I can imagine many players are thinking they won't crank up defenses until they have an enemy, but by then, it may be too late if someone finally comes across them and he's been building up an armada, it could very well be strong enough to handle whatever defenses the other guy can get going in the turns it may take for the warmonger to show up...and who says the warmonger is going to let on that he is moving an armada into position to strike the poor guys homeworld?

With this in mind, I've got a que that gives me a regular building of troops for defense, and a few research centers are always researching techs that help towards defense.

[Sha'thar of the Gosht Kohr]

Sha'thar admits to having a few warships. Built only for the practice of building, and to be slightly toothier should someone decide to become pesky with those 10cm Autocannons with which the Pathfinders come equipped.

[WKE235]

One thing I've been wondering about is how the cruel and evil warmongers (and aren't they all cruel and evil ) are using all the R&D knowledge garnered in the early part of the game. What I mean is, suppose someone decided to start a new empire say 10 turns ago, using all the information garnered by others in the first 25 or so turns (they were part of a group so they got lots of R&D intel). They could concentrate their SRP and RC in bunches to complete weapons and defenses for ships. After 10 turns they could easily have the ability to build ships with a selected Adequate weapon type with Adequate armor (and JSS III). They could continue to research the Good weapons and transwarp drives while the first warships roll off the line. Heck, they could have spent the first 10 turns stockpiling likely materials because they actually designed on paper the ship they wanted on turn one. So on turn 11 they own a fleet of nice 2nd generation warships. These ships could be barrelling down towards an unsuspecting player (one who did not know all the research -or- one who spread out their research -or- one who went for more economic items) who would be hard pressed to defend against them(Adequate versus Fair is a big advantage).

Do you think this is possible? Or, is the combination of techs required to build such ships along with the need to survey warp points and explore first to find where to send the ships mean such a scenerio does not have as big of an advantage as one might think?

[EternusIV]

WKE-

Your scenario is clean cut but IMHO overlooks a couple other hurdles.

Finding another homeworld is not a small task - even with Mk IV JSS tech and lots of APs.....which translates into more time for the 'non-cruel-evil-warmonger' type to amass decent tech.

PLUS

Once the 'non-cruel-evil-warmonger' type knows you are coming (presumably at least 2 systems out - while the 'monger' is still poking about to find the right path to the homeworld), the defender gains enough time to amass enough resources to mount a fairly large defense (slap all his/her stockpiles into one design and roll em up in one big Orbital Spacestation Burrito)

Question is: Will the warmonger have at least 2 turns worth of production to stand a chance against the more feeble defender under the BEST of circumstances after luckily finding the path to the target HW?

I'm pointing out hurdles.....

Of Course, somebody will get crushed within the year and the victor will have much respect from me....I dont care how defenseless the target is....it would take one heck of an effort to even FIND a homeworld lest defeat it once they knew you were coming.

This will all change once we have nice uber engines and have things mapped out....but I wouldn't expect even the newest races to have the capacity to wipe someone out within a year (which is fine by me )