Another Newbie Question,

Next turn, I'm going to be putting my population groups to work and build up my production base but I can't find the cost in building these Installations and exactly what each one does. Can anyone help and point them out to me? Downloads please?

Also, what resources do I need below to construct ships. I got an idea but when I looked up Synthetic Materials which is important in the process of building your defence fleet, it tells that it requires Gaseous Elements, Petrochemicals and Industrial Chemicals. Then when I looked up Gaseous Elements, it states that it requires Raw Resources to make it? What makes Raw Resources?????

It's getting to the point that it feels like I'm running in circles.


-Coal Mine
-Crystal Refinery (ship building)
-Fiber Mill
-Fuel Refinery
-Gas Refinery
-Gemston Mine
-Iron Mine (VERY important for steel - ship building)
-Light Metal Mine (transaluminum - ship building)
-Mineral Fertilzer Tanks
-Precious Metals Mine
-Radioactive Mine (ship building)
-Rare Elements Mine (ship building)
-Shenn Stone Mine

Any helpful advice will be appreciated. Thanks.

Neil

Neil,

I understand how you feel, I've been in this game since October of last year and can appreciate some of the frustration.

Start by going to the Rolling Thunder website. Here's the link:

http://www.rollingthunder.com/supernova/index.htm

At the bottom are links to the rules and various player made files that can be helpful to the newbie. In the "Supernova Rules" section, you will see a file called "SN Installation Supplement". That file will provide information regarding the construction of mines, cities, and any other startup "building".

Raw Resources are produced by Strip Mining Complexes. Each Stripmining Complex generates 1,000 Raw Resources per game turn. Since you have 85,000 on the startup, you will initially produce 85,000,000 Raw Resources per turn.

Keep asking questions, these guys have been very helpful to me and I'm sure they will be equally as helpful to you.

One other suggestion is to read all the old posts contained here in the forums. There is a lot of information (overwhelming at first) but it has answered a lot of my questions. And, look up some of my early posts. I asked a lot of questions that you probably will be asking, and I've received very helpful answers.

It is a steep learning curve, but this game has been very enjoyable. You'll get the hang of the basics soon enough.

Steve

Hey Steve. My sanity thanks you.

Just when I feel that I'm getting on top of everything, something new hits me. I'm hurrying now to get a better understanding of the rules before my next turn arrives. I also realize now that I might have to print a lot of this stuff out.

Cheers.

Neil

Part of the enjoyment of this game (to me) is the discovery of new tech, exploration finds, interesting worlds and a successful production run. The latter is the most difficult to create and sustain. Just when I thought I had it right, I ran out of adequate raw material production. When I got the Improved Stripmine numbers up, Industrial capacity became problematic. And I sure needed all those MK II Fusion Engines to expand the colonies at a reasonable rate for more Iron and Crystals, but those got dinged by the Industrial Capacity problem. MAYBE this turn things have been realigned again, but even if things run smoothly this cycle, I just bet the summer will not be here before the next production problem raises it's ugly head.

In other words, steep learning curve AND steep enjoyment curve!

(And in a year or less, you will be answering newbie questions!)

Octus Imperium

I have to wonder how some empires around here and get away with building these huge multi-million ton dreadnaughts. I hate the idea of one showing up unexpectedly on my doorstep.

I also noticed that I have no radioactive resources listed on my homeworld geological survey. Is this something I have make through my industrial complexes?

Neil

Definitely less. (I started 50 weeks ago.)

There is a couple spreadsheets in the download section that will help you. One is a list of all first level tech and some second level tech and what it takes to build it, if it is a buildable item (not all are, some techs are enabling and automatically go into effect once you complete the research). The second one has a production spreadsheet you can use.

Most mines by the way require 500 Construction Materials (Con Mats) and one pop to build and produce a variable rate of production based on the following formula:

Output = # of mines *(yield- # of mines/10). There is more information on this elsewhere in the forum.

Con Mats require Timber and Steel to build which require iron and lumber. You can get iron from either raw materials (from stripmines) or from mines.

To build ships you issue the SHIP order. You need to have all of the items required in inventory or the order fails. Each item is made up of other items and so forth down the the base material level. (I have counted up to four level of production.) Also you need to have enough shipyard slips to build each ship and enough total shipyard capacity or the ships you want will be placed into a queue for next turn. Ships are built based on the assigned priority.

I hope this helps. Oh and everyone makes mistakes with their production queue so dont worry. (There is a thread on newbie errors that lists a couple of them.)

Do I actually need shipyard slips to build ships? Here I thought I was okay with 100 shipyards.

Thanks for all the help here everyone. The last thing I want to do is waste my turns fumbling around completely clueless.

Neil

Absolutely. Each shipyard gives you the capacity to build 10,000 Tons so your 100 shipyards gives you 1 Million Tons of capacity. However, you need the slips to build a ship. Each slip will allow you to build one ship. I believe that you start with one slip. I would suggest you build enough slips to build 5 to 10 ships at least for a start. Later on you may want to add to the number and add more shipyard capacity as well.

When building ships, there are two installations that impact how many ships you can build in one turn and how many tons of ship can be completed in a turn. The two installations are: Shipyard
Shipyard Slip


Shipyard
Each shipyard is capable of producing 10,000 tons per turn. With the initial 100 shipyards, you can produce up to 1,000,000 tons of ship EACH TURN.

Shipyard Slip
A shipyard slip allows you to build additional ships in parallel. You start with 1 shipyard slip. Until you build more, work will only be done on 1 ship at a time.

If you issue a SHIP order and specify multiple ships, only the first one will be worked on and the rest will be put in a queue. Once the first ship is completed, work will begin on the second ship. When the second ship is complete, work will begin on the third ship.... etc etc etc.


An example:

With your initial 100 shipyards and 1 shipyard slip, you can build 1 ship, any size from 1,000 tons (the minimum ship size) up to 1,000,000 IN A SINGLE TURN. If you try to build a 1,000,100 ton ship with your initial configuration, it will take 2 turns to finish the ship.

However, if you constructed one additional Shipyard in the above example, your capacity would have increased to 1,010,000 tons. The ship in the above example would be completed in one turn.


Another example:

Assuming 100shipyards and 1 slip, if you specify a quantity of 2 (or more) in your SHIP order, and each ship is 500,000 tons, the first ship will be completed the turn the SHIP order was submitted and the second ship would be completed on the following turn.

However, if you had constructed an additional Shipyard Slip in this example, BOTH ships would have been completed (since you have 2 slips and the capacity to build 1,000,000 tons).

Hope that helps.

Oh, one thing you have to remember. In order for work to begin on a ship, the individual components need to be in your "Stockpile" list.

Lets say you design the following ship:

1 Mk I Nuclear Engine (100 tons)
1 Mk I Nuclear Jump Drive (100 tons)
3 10cm Autocannon (300 tons)
500 Fuel Tankage (500 tons)

To build this ship, you'll need to issue a SHIP order. However, on THE TURN you issue the SHIP order, you will have to have 1 Mk I Nuclear Engine, 1 Mk I Nuclear Jump Drive, 3 10cm Autocannons and 500 Fuel Tankages built and listed in the "Stockpile" section of your printout. If you do not have the components pre-built, the order to build will be cancelled and you'll get a message stating that you do not have the appropriate components to build that ship and will have to re-issue the same orders over again (after building the required components).

Always have the ship components that you need for a particular ship design built and in the stockpiles before issueing a SHIP order.

Regarding the ship above, you'll notice that the tonnage adds to 1,000 tons. This is the absolute smallest ship that is allowable in game. There is no upper limit that I've ever heard of. Next, you'll see that there is no Standard Hull Plate or Mk I Computer Systems, Cargo Bays, Mk I Short Range Sensors, etc., etc. in this design. None are required (though each system has it's benefits).

Actually, I don't believe that there are any requirements to building a ship (other than having 1,000 tons in it). To qualify as a ship, you might be required to have at least one engine on board (can anyone confirm this is true?). I think if you omit any engines, the object is considered to be an "Orbital Installation". So, theoretically, you could have designed the above example as 900 Fuel Tankage and 1 Mk I Nuclear Engine and it would be valid.

Keep asking the questions and reading old posts, they are invaluable.

Steve

You are correct. One engine is required to be a ship. Orbital Installations and Planetary Installations only vary by how you chose them when you are defining the design. Also, the structural integrity of a Orbital is three times a ship and a Planetary is nine times.

One final point. If you want to leave your system don't forget fuel tanks and a Jump Engine. (There may be other ways to leave the system without Jump Engines but they are not common knowledge at this time at least not as far as I know.)

Yes.

You'll need to convert Raw Resources into Radioactive Elements, then these into Processed Radioactives to be able to run your Power Plants.

If you're going to go ahead and build a lot more slips, then remember to be supplying enough power. The order that installations are supplied with power are as follows (I think):

Shipyards
Fuel Refineries
Resource Extraction
Stripmining Complexes
Industrial Complexes
Other

Apparently it's not nice running out of power, as it screws your order queue up. A viable alternative (depending on yield) may be hydro or geothermal.

Also remember that shipyards also draw 100 power each now whether or not they are being used or not unless this has been changed again?
Since the excess power report is broken you cannot rely on it to report your power need s correctly so keep your own track.

Cheers
/Lars

I have to wonder how some empires around here and get away with building these huge multi-million ton dreadnaughts. I hate the idea of one showing up unexpectedly on my doorstep.



You wont have to worry about this possibility for quite some time... and even if one does poking around it will most likely be from one of your neighbors who will most likely be at around the same level of technology. I dont think an elder empire will be visiting your area of space for
years real time. Its a really big galaxy.

And that is an understatement.

One other thing that often trips people up is the order that things are produced.

The orders you enter are run (except ships and production orders) then standing orders then convoy routes

Power is generated
Mines are run
Factories
Ships are built (All itmes must have been completed at the time the build order is given, not when it occurs)
Research is completed
People are born

And the eternal cycle rotates next turn.

There are some subtleties but if you keep this in mind it will help

(Oh and a lot of this is in the rule set but there is so much there that sometimes it is hard to remember everything until you actually have run a few turns.)

Find or make a spreadsheet that will help you with production. While Pete can run production on the back of an electric bill envelope, I cannot.

Excel is my friend. Make it yours also. There are many versions out there for the asking.

Enjoy, its a good game.

Tom
Rathe Federation

You guys are fantastic!

I'll be going into town tomorrow to print the rules and everything else I need out. However I have one more question about Installations: When built will they automatically go to work making the elements I need or will I have to Tool them through BI order code? I know I have to use it to make Steel from Iron, etc.

I'm looking forward to the day when I can do all of this in my sleep (I'm not even on my second turn yet). Oh yes, it will be an early Christmas when that day comes.

Cheers.

Neil

Once built- and assuming they have enough power and pop- they'll keep on churning out resources until you dismantle them. No need to give them orders.

Additional Comments on Player Aids and starting out:

1. There is a spreadsheet called: Items and Installations Starters Guide
This spreadsheet is great.
2. Start by sorting the spreadsheet by Classification.
3. From there, scroll down to the Classification called -- Resources. These represent two major items --
a. "Resources" found on a planet that can be mined or factoried (coal -- lumber) -- look at your turn report to determine what you have.
b. Items that can be purchased using the Raw Resources-RRs (each costs 10 RRs)
4. The rese of the catagories are well defined and give what resources are needed.

Using your example of Synthetic Material. Assuming you had none of the items needed (gaseous elements, industrial chemicals, and petrochemicals), you could issue the orders like this
a. BI 100 Gaseous Elements
b. BI 100 Industrial Chenicals
c. BI 100 Petrochemicals
d. BI 100 Synthetic Material

A-C would use 1,000 raw resources each to produce 100 each of the items
D would then use the items produced in a-c to make the Synthetic Materials.

Since we are slightly limited in the # of orders we can use, it works for me to work via a spread sheet and have a different column for each 'Resource' . Then, I use a sum of the column to figure out how much I need to 'build'. As a short example, look at producing:
1 Standard Hull Plate (5 steel) and...
1 Heavy Machinery (3 steel)

Long -- not efficient method
1. build 15 iron = 150 raw resources
2. build 5 steel = 15 iron
3. build 1 Standard Hull Plate = 5 steel
4. build 9 iron = 90 raw resources
5. build 3 steel = 9 iron
6. build 1 Heavy Machinery

This took 6 orders.

More Effieicent way.
1. build 24 iron = 240 raw resources
2. build 8 steel = 24 iron
3. build 1 Standard Hull
4. build 1 Heavy Machinery

This... 4 orders

Yes, you only saved 2 orders but ask the old-timers, in normal operations, figuring out these needs will save you many orders.

Hope this helps..... Reading all
the Newbie posts has really helped me out alot!

Larry (4 turns into the game)

Sure does!

Can I use this method to construct ships? Manufactor the needed components in the shipyards, then build the actual vessel with the shipyard slip on the same turn?

Thanks!

Neil

Neil
'Fraid not. To build a ship you have to have the necessary "parts" on hand at the beginning of the turn. the construcion program attempts to deduct the various parts when you isse the order. If the parts are not there the order failds. If the parts are there the ship goes into the shipyard queue and waits for the shipyards to run (later in the turn). So if you have all the necessary parts you can design a ship and have it ready for the next rurn. Hope this helps
T'Lariss

Remember, too, that shipyards don't build ship parts. ICs build ship parts (along with everything else) and shipyards (if you have enough slips) put them together into ships.

What (or when) do you need Heavy Machinery?

Well, you need Heavy Machinery for ... hmmm, nope, don't need them there. Would have made sense to use them for stripmines, but nope, not used there. Then maybe you need them for ... hmmm, again, not used for that. How can you build a shipyard with no heavy machinery, but, it's not required. Dang it, where in the heack are they used? (Sounds of papers being shuffled, mumbling, some occasional curses).

AH-HA! You need 500,000 Heavy Machinery in the building of a Fortress. Um... (more shuffling) .. and that appears to be the only thing to use Heavy Machinery. Pretty dang disappointing. I do see that (shuffling again) Improved Stripmining uses Improved Heavy Machinery. So far that's the only use I've seen for IHM.

Seems Heavy machinery is almost as useless as Black Market Goods, Consumer Goods, and Luxury Goods.

...and coal, and mineral fertilizers, and plantfoods...

....there maybe a use.......

If you're lifeform is a plant, does plantfood help

Larry

Sadly, no. You still need meat, grain, f&v, and water to make foodstuff. plantfood desn't even enter into it.
Oh, and you still need foodstuff to feed your ground troops even if you paid for full photosynthesis. does that seem right to you?

One other detail to pay very close attention to is the order that you construct items. You have to go from basic items to components to finished products or your production orders will fail.


If you input
BI 2 Cargo Bays
BI 10 Steel
BI 30 Iron

Then the first two orders will process but fail do to lack of supply and you will end up with 30 Iron sitting on your planet.

My production spreadsheets start with mined items then works thru refined items (ie Steel, Refined Crystals) then Subcomponents (Electronics, Synthetic Materials) then Finished Goods (Mk I Computers, Mk I Engines). Then when I write my production orders I follow the same process converting raw to basics, basics to refined....etc.

Also be aware of the difference between a BI order and an EB order. Along with the Installation Guide there was an Orders Supplement on the player aid page, although it may be somewhat dated.

A good idea is to make a master list for yourself on how to order your production something like this below which is an old one for one of my Empires:


MASTER PRODUCTION QUEUE FOR GOB


10-90 Priority Items One Build NON tooled

10
20
30
40
50
60
70
80
90
100
110
120
130
140
150
160
170
180
190
200
Level One Resources Plus ESP Resources (26) Tooled

300 0 Caldaran Crystals
340 0 Coal
380 0 Crystals
420 0 Fibers
460 0 Fruits&Vegetables
500 0 Gaseous Elements
540 0 Gemstones
580 0 Ghuran Demonblood
620 0 Grains
660 0 Industrial Chemicals
700 0 Iron
740 0 Light Metals
780 0 Lumber
820 0 Meat
860 0 Mineral Fertilisers
900 0 Petrochemicals
940 0 Precious Metals
980 0 Radioactive Elements
1020 0 Rare Elements
1060 0 Rare Herbs & Spices
1100 0 Shenn Stones
1140 0 Water
1180 0 Garoxx Jewels
1220 0 Jinn Crystals
1260 0 Trintalum
1300 0 Non Tooled Build Space

Level Two Resources Plus Space for Improved Resources (30) (When Advanced comes then eliminate lowest level etc)

1340 0 Food Stuffs
1380 0 Fuel
1420 0 Luxury Goods
1460 0 Petroleum
1500 0 Pharmaceuticals
1540 0 Plantfoods
1580 0 Processed Radioactives
1620 0 Refined Crystals
1640 0 Steel
1680 0 Synthetic Materials
1720 0 Textiles
1760 0 Timber
1800 0 Transaluminum
1840 0 Weapons
1880 Improved FoodStuffs
1920 Improved Fuel
1960 Improved Luxury Goods
2000 Improved Petroleum
2040 Improved Pharmaceuticals
2080 Improved Plantfoods
2120 Improved Processed Radioactives
2160 Improved Refined Crystals
2200 Improved Steel
2240 Improved Synthetic Materials
2280 Improved Textiles
2320 Improved Timber
2360 Improved Transaluminum
2400 Improved Weapons
2440 Advanced Foodstuffs
2480 Advanced Fuel
2320 Advanced Luxury Goods
2360 Advanced Petroleum
2400 Advanced Pharmaceuticals
2440 Advanced Plantfoods
2480 Advanced Processed Radioactives
2520 Advanced Refined Crystals
2560 Advanced Steel
2600 Advanced Synthetic Materials
2640 Advanced Textiles
2680 Advanced Timber
2720 Advanced Transaluminum
2760 Advanced Weapons
Level Three Resources plus space for Improved Resources plus 4 extra spaces (14) (When Advanced comes eliminate lowest level etc)

2800 0 Electronics
2840 0 Construction Materials
2920 0 Food Concentrates
2960 0 Black Market Goods
3000 0 Consumer Goods
3040 Improved Electronics
3080 Improved Construction Materials
3120 Improved Food Concentrates
3160 Improved Black Market Goods
3200 Improved Consumer Goods
3240 Advanced Electronics
3280 Advanced Construction Materials
3320 Advanced Food Concentrates
3360 Advanced Black Market Goods
3400 Advanced Consumer Goods

Misc Builds (5)

3440 0 Heavy Machinery
3480 0 Improved Heavy Machinery
3520 0 Advanced Heavy Machinery
3560 0 Non Tooled Build Space
3600 0 Non Tooled Build Space
3640 0 Non Tooled Build Space


Ship Component Builds

ENGINES & JUMP DRIVES (5)

3680
3720
3760
3800
3840
3880
3920

SENSORS & BRIDGE (10)

3960 0
4000 0
4040
4080
4120
4160
4200
4240
4280
4320
4360

WEAPONS (10)

4400
4440
4480 0 Heavy Stun Beam
4520 0
4560 0
4600 0
4640 0
4680 0
4720
4760

DEFENSIVE SYSTEMS (10)

4800 0 Selenite Battle Weave
4840 0 EDAC
4880 0 Type A Defense Screen
4920 Laser CIDS
4960 Mk II Force Shield
5000
5040
5080
5120
5160
5200

MISC SHIP COMPONENTS (20)

5240 0
5280 0 Cargo Bay
5320 0 Fuel Tankage
5360 0 Fighter Bay
5400 0 Drone Rack
5440 0
5480 0
5520 0
5560 0
5600
5640
5680
5720
5760
5800
5840
5880
5920
5960
6000


Troop Related Builds (6)
6040 10 Troopers
6080 3 Imperial Army Soldiers
6120 3 Imperial Guards Soldiers
6160 3 Imperial Marines Soldiers
6200 8 Space Defense
6240 0 Non tooled Build Space
6280 0 Non tooled Build Space
6320
6360
6400
6440
6480
6520
6560
6600
6640
6680
6720
6760
6800

999999 END OF QUEUE BUILD IRON!!!!!



/Locklyn

Iron, what do you need iron for??

Ha, ha,

almost everything!

ya..I added that to my que too

make 1,000,000 iron
make 250,000 steel
usually run out of prod before most of the steel gets made but got that 1 mil iron and got a nice 10 mil iron surplus to work with

Except those things you need crystals for.

I tell you what fellas ---- I'll trade you Iron for Lumber straight up anyday

I'm finding worlds with Lumber yields to be verrrry rare.

Heavy Machinery: the only use I see for this, as stated earlier, is for neutral bait.

Thats true. I guess that is why we have RR.

I would be glad to do some trading BTW, if I just had someone to trade with.

Ali, as we both started this game not that soon after one another, we may be neighbors, but as there's a big difference in your empire # to mine that may not be. Not that there is any relationship between empire number and where in the galaxy you start.

Are most of you four digit? Any five out there? Are the elder empires three?

Curious, that's all.

To hit you over the head with.

I started well after both of you but my empire number is lower than Ali's.

Empire numbers must get recycled. Still it would be interesting to hear if there is any pattern to them, and if there are any non-4 digit ones.

Just curious too!

Yes there are 2 didgit empire numbers and they can be right next to something in the 4000 range. There does not seem to be any corrolation to start date either since I know of core positions in the 4000 and newer ones, well relatively speaking, that are in the 1000's or 100's.

Well in my neck of the woods (pun intended) Lumber is everywhere!
Gotta have Barrels!!!

Oh, and I started from day one and have an empire number of 2996. I believe the empire numbering is randomly done.

Just wondering if there was a correlation between empire # and postion within the galaxy.

Not that I can tell ...

Lumber is rare in our part of the galaxy as well except in the homesystem which is blessed with a number of planets so we get by. We have not seen either correlation between number of the empire, placement or anything such so far.



/Locklyn

Just wondering if the improved and advanced materials can be used on things that are listed as using the standard version of those materials.

Simple answer: no.

Cestvel

Unfortunately not, but there again, there's many things that you will need them for.

How much CM do I need to construct a shipyard slip?
Maybe I'm blind, but I can't find this information anywhere in my records....

An inst would solve this problem

-----INST (Describe Installation)-----
INST: Shipyard Slip
Shipyard Slip: Each Shipyard Slip present in a Population Group allows for the construction of one ship
there per turn.
Production requirements: 50,000 Construction Materials
Consumes:
================================================================================
=========================================

Ahhh... thanks so much! Seems as if I have skipped this looking over all these SN stuff here.....

Sorry, one more question concerning shipyards: how can I remove a ship in queue from a shipyard?