Anybody have any insight in what the right tactics are? How many do you need, in what mix, do fortifications make any difference, any other tips?

Difficult question....
I think it all depends on what you expect to encounter, and what you need to defend.
If you defend against CBs, you can forget about CLABs, their range is just to short to harm ships, these guys are only interesting when attacked by an AA, since the ships will have to come close then, and if your enemy makes it to the shore they will fight along as LDBs. CHABs are terribly expensive, so I think you should only build them in your major cities. Anything under 20 Pop I'd just forget about it. It's less painful to take the damage from the CB than it is to pay for building and maintaining lots of CHABs. And you need lots of them. If your CHABs get silenced, you might as well not have built them. The damage they do to ships is more than a few scratches, but not by much.

So....
* CLABs only in locations where you expect AAs
* CHABs in locations where you expect CBs
* CHABs only in large numbers, and therefore few locations

Weither or not fortifications are worth their cost is another question entirely, and I'm undecided on that one.

You should not build clab in your major cities that you are trying to protect with chab. Here's why: say you build up your chab real high and have a few hundred clab to go with it. I come in and target your clab and break it's moral because I can hit it with my big guns at a range that your clab can't reach my ships. I can break your defensive moral without ever having to fight your chab off. On your dson if you target small warships you will fire at the clab and if you target lw you will engage the chab.

Hmmm, not so sure if that last bit of information is true. Russ, can you shed some light on that?

hmmmm.. maybe you should try it sometime it seems to be quite effective...............

CHAB and CLAB would both participate in any coastal battery vs naval force combat. CLAB does not take damage as well as CHAB and could be deliberately given primary target status so that's a real valid concern - although 'silencing' of the batteries is based on the whole of CHAB/CLAB factors and damage taken so if your coastal battery is mostly CHAB the enemy still has to do a fair amount of damage to the them. CLAB is also unable to return fire *if* the enemy stays beyond 20,000 yards (a common tactic). If the enemy closes within 20,000 yards then CLAB can be very effective since it has a higher rate of fire than CHAB and 6" shellfire can do a fair bit of damage.

Given the cost and the gunnery tactics employed most nations opt to just build up CHAB in important cities/coastal provinces. IF the enemy makes a mistake of closing within 20,000 yards though CLAB can be quite effective. That may not be likely but then again if there is no CLAB at a location an enemy could close within 20,000 yards in a battle with CHAB and not have to worry as much - the CHAB ROF would increase a little along accuracy but the naval force units would get that benefit as well and it might allow for smaller warships and secondary armaments to be used in the fight so...point and counterpoint.

You don't want to build up a lot of CLAB given its vulnerability in long range duels but if you have a solid foundation of CHAB at a location there is a case to be made for a battery or two of it just to keep the enemy honest or to take advantage of potential enemy mistakes. If in doubt though - build CHAB.


Russ

And is this true?

I would say that is a yes


Also wolf's question:



has not been answered.

CHAB is considered "LW" (Large Warship) and CLAB is considered "SW" (Small Warship) for DSON targeting purposes - it would give one or the other primary target status for your naval force and would work exactly as it would in a normal fleet engagement (i.e. It isn't the only targeting factor and it won't target a given class of unit to the exclusion of all others but it would give that class of unit the primary target status which would lead to it be targeted far more often).

Russ

Thanks Russ.

As you play the game of Victory you will notice there are alot of things you can do that aren't necessarily in the rule book. This is only one example....experiment with your orders you may be surprised!

On the question of Forts.
They are so good when built up to legendary strength.
Even if the Army defending that location has zero MUN it will defend like you would not believe.
If you come across an Army protected by a fort it is an advantage to attack with a few TAS's first.
Paul

About those forts and CB's,

Can forts be destroyed by a CB when build in a port?
And considering the fact that CLAB/CHAB are considered SW/LW, wouldn't the Naval Gunnery training program give you a modifier when attacking a port city with a CB?
Is the distance sailed to a port city when ordering your fleet to CB that city a factor in it's success? (Would a CB be more successful if you would sneak your fleet in at night 1 turn before you CB the city?)

Anyone?

Donald

And what about fortifications? Do they protect CHABs and CLABs?

Yes, fortifications do also protect coastal batteries trying to fight of a coastal bombardment.

Hope this helps,
Norbert





Donald,

Fortifications in (port)cities can not be targetted in an attack. A ground-assault is the only way to eliminate an enemy fort...



Donald,

The training program "Naval Gunnery" is not factored is a combat against coastal batteries... Perhaps the training program "Coastal Bombardment" is, but I will have to look into that...

Hope this helps,
Norbert

This is not entirely true. You cannot target the city fortifications directly, but they are part of your targets when you use General Targets.



This is entirely not true, here's the definition of the Naval Gunnery training program, copy/paste from the rulebook:
Naval Gunnery
+.01 Special Combat Modifier per level. Applied as a bonus to hit in naval combat and coastal engagements (ship vs coastal artillery units).

Hamish,

If this is true, as you state, than I should see the combat modifier as a bonus in a battle report... I do not see this, therefore my statement that "naval gunnery" is not factored in a battle against coastal batteries...
But, the rules state that this training program is added...
Strange!?!




City fortifications are not part of fixed defences... Fixed defences are LDB, CLAB, CHAB, HAA, LAA...


Hope this helps,
Norbert

Hmmm, sounds like a valid argument, but maybe it just doesn't show on your reports. Maybe Russ can help us out here.....



Hmmm, also a good point. Again, I think we need Russ to settle it for us...

Hello Russ,

Can you give an answer on the above questions?

Norbert

Hi Guys,

The naval gunnery training program would be a factor in the ship vs batteries gunnery portion - there is a coastal bombardment training program that would affect the bombardment portion.

Fortifications are not considered part of 'fixed defenses". City fortifications cannot be targeted in a strategic/coastal bombardment - provincial fortifications can if you use the Provincial Fortifications target key and the target location is the province.

Russ

Russ,

Thanks for the clarification on the issues.
Still it is strange that the NG program does not show in the battlereport...

Norbert