Naval Combat Primer

[Lord Uriel]

Hmmm. I've read it and it does clear some things up. Thanks Pete.

I would like to add my request for a way to have multiple fighter types in a fleet with varying roles. Interceptors and fighters on fleet cover and attack fighters and bombers on deep strike would be a nice element to add.

 

Of course, I'm a fan of verrry big guns and intend to give my opponents mega tons 80cm autocannon at beam range.

 

I'd personally like to see something that clarifies the ranges, such as beam, so I can understand what kind of ship to put certain types of weapons on.

 

Also, if I put 1 million tons of laser cids on a 5 million ton ship that is just a effective as a smaller amount (tons) of higher generation cids?

 

 

Thanks again,

Lord Uriel

[RTGPete]

Will the combat system support multiple FOO/DOO settings if there was a way to divvy up which fighters/drones went with which fleet in a multi-fleet engagement?

 

Pete, how does it currently work when allies are fighting together, and both empires have carriers with different FOO/DOO settings?

 

Once the battle starts and ships assigned to their various formations, each side in the engagement is treated as one giant force. I agree that it would be nice to assign fighters and drones to individual carriers, but it just isn't practical to do so. Allied forces are treated one giant force (it doesn't matter how many different fleets show up as an unlimited number of fleets/ships can be involved in a battle), and a single FOO/DOO would be selected for the allied force.

[RTGPete]

I am looking at the formula used in the defensive system example and I am having trouble figuring out what some of the numbers are or how they would relate to anything.

 

What is the " 10*250,000=2.5M "  suppose to represent?

 

thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ah, the 250,000 number is just the value in the database for the Type A Black Sphere Generator - ten of those yields a total defense value against Plasma weaponry of 2.5 million.

[RTGPete]

Thanks Pete!  Now we know why you've been quiet! 

 

Lots of useful info, would add to Hobnob's above though.

 

Can we request that the Weapon Range and Defensive bonus vis a vis DepLoc detail be added before the final document?

 

And, if the FOO & DOO options are confimed at the fleet level only, please could the FBP order process be modified so that changing the FOO & DOO for any Ship Class we're changing DL for; changes the FOOs & DOOs for ALL the Ship Classes at once?

 

Regards

 

Chief Warmaster to Ur-Lord Tedric

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FOO/DOO order settings are changed by formation rather than by ship designation - if you had two of your fleets in the same battle and each had different FOO orders for the same formation, one would be chosen. However, you might separate those fleets and want one of them to have its FOO and other to retain its FOO. If the code forced a global change on all formations each time you altered any formation, you would lose that ability

[RTGPete]

Pete,

 

I have trouble comparing the "new" stuff that will be incorporated vs how it is now since how it is now isn't really detailed.

 

Further I agree with Paradigm and would like to see the capacity as originally detailed in the rules to actually separate my frontline Combat Gunboats from my Hummers when it comes to what risks they take in combat and I want my picket drones and Science Drones to hold back. This seems impossible if it is only on a fleet level.

 

It is not practical to assign fighters and drones to invididual carriers - though it would be nice to assign them individually, it just isn't feasible.

 

Further I would like to see the Primer also point out the small fact that drones and fighters are through on the first round on a WP assault whether their carriers have come through or not.

 

Ah, I can do that.  The carriers will come through eventually, or maybe even first, exposing them to enemy fire.

 

Also I found no discussion on Boarding Combat and the facts of atmosphere on weaponry fired into it or out of it which would be good to know.

 

I agree with Urlord Tedric about the need to have actual ranges explained for the various DLs

 

So with CIDS they first actually mitigate Fighter/Drone/Missile damage done on a tonnage rating like other defensive systems and then they can also destroy the fighters etc according to that formula?? Is that all done simultaneously? Does Fighters deal out their damage which is reduced by CIDS and manueverability and then the CIDS deal their damage to the fighters or that damage dealt afterwards??

 

Mmm, other way around.  They first destroy the fighters and drones, and then mitigate fighter, drone, missile, torpedo damage (at that point they are just like any other defensive system).  A massive point defense umbrella can crush a fighter/drone attack, but by the same token fighters/drones used against an unprepared enemy can crush him.  As it happens, fighters and drones are more cost effective than conventional weapons on a ton-for-ton basis, in terms of offensive firepower, including the tonnage of their bays.  They can be very good, or very bad, depending on the enemy defensive makeup.

 

There are more questions coming

 

Cheers

/Locklyn

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[RTGPete]

Hmmm.  I've read it and it does clear some things up.  Thanks Pete.

I would like to add my request for a way to have multiple fighter types in a fleet with varying roles.  Interceptors and fighters on fleet cover and attack fighters and bombers on deep strike would be a nice element to add.

 

Of course, I'm a fan of verrry big guns and intend to give my opponents mega tons 80cm autocannon at beam range.

 

I'd personally like to see something that clarifies the ranges, such as beam, so I can understand what kind of ship to put certain types of weapons on.

 

Also, if I put 1 million tons of laser cids on a 5 million ton ship that is just a effective as a smaller amount (tons) of higher generation cids? 

 

 

Thanks again,

Lord Uriel

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'll look into adding a chart for the weapon ranges.

 

In theory you could use a large number of lower generation CIDS or a smaller number of higher generation CIDS to achieve the same result. That's pretty much true with everything - lower generation weapons are just less efficient ton for ton than their higher generation counterparts. The point defense accuracy versus fighter/drone agility formula encourages the higher generation CIDS, but does not require it (you'd just need a lot more lower generation CIDS to make up the difference).

[Virmilyn]

Question:

 

Lets say the combat is initiated on the first movement. Does that engagement run to conclusion before the next movement is processed?

 

Was wondering if a fleet can join a battle if it moves to the engagement location but on a latter movement point.

 

Clearification:

 

So on a warp point assault, fighters and drones are launched and first on the scene before any your other ships come thru?

 

And are fighters/drones subject to the same fire control as the fleet?

If the fleet has a control of ten, the fighter/drone force going thru the the warp point will target ten ships?

[SargonKingOfSlith]

The Naval combat Primer is here! The Naval Combat Primer is here!!!

 

Yahoo!!!

[Marvin]

Ah, the 250,000 number is just the value in the database for the Type A Black Sphere Generator - ten of those yields a total defense value against Plasma weaponry of 2.5 million.

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How do we find the values for the other defensive systems? We are given the weapons ratings, so how about the defensive ratings?

[RTGPete]

Question:

 

Lets say the combat is initiated on the first movement. Does that engagement run to conclusion before the next movement is processed?

 

Was wondering if a fleet can join a battle if it moves to the engagement location but on a latter movement point.

 

Clearification:

 

So on a warp point assault, fighters and drones are launched and first on the scene before any your other ships come thru?

 

And are fighters/drones subject to the same fire control as the fleet?

If the fleet has a control of ten, the fighter/drone force going thru the the warp point will target ten ships?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

All orders for a given pulse in the turn are processed before any battles for that pulse are initiated. If one fleet moves to a location and a potential battle is triggered, all other orders on that same pulse will be concluded before the battle actually takes place. This means that other fleets might move in to the battle site and be involved in that battle, or if there is only one enemy fleet there, it could move away and no battle would be joined.

 

Fleet fire control is used for fighters/drones.

 

During a warp point assault, fighters and drones are launched and arrive on the far side of the warp point at the beginning of the battle. At least one ship would have gone through as well, which might have been the carrier or some other vessel(s). Carriers are not immune to damage, however, because they will eventually jump in, and might have jumped in first.

[RTGPete]

Ah, the 250,000 number is just the value in the database for the Type A Black Sphere Generator - ten of those yields a total defense value against Plasma weaponry of 2.5 million.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How do we find the values for the other defensive systems? We are given the weapons ratings, so how about the defensive ratings?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The new values will be shown in ANZ once the combat upgrade goes through.

[ali-t-akua]

During a warp point assault, fighters and drones are launched and arrive on the far side of the warp point at the beginning of the battle.  At least one ship would have gone through as well, which might have been the carrier or some other vessel(s).  Carriers are not immune to damage, however, because they will eventually jump in, and might have jumped in first.

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Pete, I am not sure why the fact of when the carriers go through is relevent to the conduct of the battle. I was under the impression that fighters and drones keep on fighting as long as they exist and there is one ship from that side remaining. Now for the aftermath assuming that the side with the fighters won, I can see where the loss of the carriers would be an issue as there would be no place for the drones and fighters to return to which in turn leads to their destruction. Is my understanding of WP assault correct or is there something I don't understand?

 

PS. Thanks for completing this document. I found the information very helpful and look forward to your completed document.

[ali-t-akua]

Ah, the 250,000 number is just the value in the database for the Type A Black Sphere Generator - ten of those yields a total defense value against Plasma weaponry of 2.5 million.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How do we find the values for the other defensive systems? We are given the weapons ratings, so how about the defensive ratings?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The new values will be shown in ANZ once the combat upgrade goes through.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Pete when you update these values, can you also include the ratings for armor in their respective ANZs. I noticed in the Primer that you included some information but it would be helpful to have the complete picture for armor. Thanks.

[hobknob]

The armor information is already in the ANZ.

 

What happens when you have several different systems of defensive items?

 

fx: you could have ablative armor coating, reflective armor coating, ghost-nine armor and EDAC which all have some affect against coherent beam weapons. How is the protective factor determined?

 

 

Having read the defensive system through several times I am seeing that there is some benefit to having defensive systems. These benefits are calculated as a % reduction to the incoming fire and you can have a fairly decent reduction. That all makes sense to me. What doesn't make sense is what the relationship is between tonnage of the system, tech level of the defensive system and tech level of the offensive weapons sytems that are incoming. Having examined the example again I am unable to grasp the particulars that resulted in a decrease of the offensive fire power by a factor of 6. I am certainly unable to extrapolate the example to any other systems either.

 

Ths is out to anybody of course.

 

 

 

We know what the numbers are for weapon degredation due to range/Deploc factors. Are we ever going to get the same sort of info on defensinve bonuses? I am not asking for it mind you, but if it is going to be coming out, then it should be in this document as well.

 

thanks

[ali-t-akua]

The armor information is already in the ANZ.

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Oh! That must be new. I will rerun some ANZs then. Thanks.