Gary Carpenter Posted October 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 It is my understanding that when a COLB is done it is safe for the next turn. Why should it be safe after that? The defender should be allowed to attack pop groups.If someone, does a COLB on turn one, lands troops and does a probe GATK on turn 2, I see no problem with the defender being able to GATK later on turn 2 and wipe out a poorly done beachead. The attacker should then have to 'start over' with a new COLB, etc. for future turns. because if the defender attacks every pulse til you transfer down your army he will get your army, and the pop seg, NO BATTLE> This is the turn after the probe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Carpenter Posted October 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 AGAIN, main problem is THIS is not what PETE said in earlier conversations. AND this is not the first time PETE tells people one thing and then acts like something completely different has always been the way. LIKE, I was told UGS will never approach 100 percent loss, unless they are really far apart, yet I have connected HW's at 100 percent loss and Wormholes and Sightings at wormholes and spies and well you get the point, then to top it off he acts like you are crazy when you point out a problem or inconsistancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconutheads Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Pete has just informed me that after the first turn when you have put a new pop seg on an enemy world and find out the POP SEG number of a newly created pop seg, that the other side can GATK and take your pop seg, and any troops you put in the pop seg. SO you need to put down new pop segs after the probe attack or if you do not get the ships there to do the probe, you have to start over and do a new colb to keep the enemy from getting the pop seg. SO now the enemy can SPAM GATK, and take any pop segs that have been there more than one turn the minute you put a troop in them and the troop will now also be owned by the enemy. THIS IS NOT what I have been told by PETE for the last 7 years. What the heck is a POP SEG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Deependra Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Pete has just informed me that after the first turn when you have put a new pop seg on an enemy world and find out the POP SEG number of a newly created pop seg, that the other side can GATK and take your pop seg, and any troops you put in the pop seg. SO you need to put down new pop segs after the probe attack or if you do not get the ships there to do the probe, you have to start over and do a new colb to keep the enemy from getting the pop seg. SO now the enemy can SPAM GATK, and take any pop segs that have been there more than one turn the minute you put a troop in them and the troop will now also be owned by the enemy. THIS IS NOT what I have been told by PETE for the last 7 years. What the heck is a POP SEG? He means pop group. Terminology from a different game for the same thing. Turn 1. COLB Turn 2. NEWA Probe Force 1 OC 1 probe division DIV ALL GATK Turn 3 COLB Turn 4. NEWA Invasion! OC 1 All divisions DIV ALL GATK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Deependra Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 AGAIN, main problem is THIS is not what PETE said in earlier conversations. AND this is not the first time PETE tells people one thing and then acts like something completely different has always been the way. LIKE, I was told UGS will never approach 100 percent loss, unless they are really far apart, yet I have connected HW's at 100 percent loss and Wormholes and Sightings at wormholes and spies and well you get the point, then to top it off he acts like you are crazy when you point out a problem or inconsistancy. Well, the rules for Gates have changed because Pete agreed they were wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfouasnon Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Hmmmm.....why do a probe? Just dump a 1000 divisions and take the world...no sense in being overly cautious , and if the divisions are not on your HW , you can afford to lose them . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurassier Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 It is my understanding that when a COLB is done it is safe for the next turn. Why should it be safe after that? The defender should be allowed to attack pop groups.If someone, does a COLB on turn one, lands troops and does a probe GATK on turn 2, I see no problem with the defender being able to GATK later on turn 2 and wipe out a poorly done beachead. The attacker should then have to 'start over' with a new COLB, etc. for future turns. because if the defender attacks every pulse til you transfer down your army he will get your army, and the pop seg, NO BATTLE> This is the turn after the probe. Let me get your situation straight, you are saying, Turn 1 COLB, Turn 2 DAF, NEWA, DIV GATK (this is with one division, or some nominal amount) to probe the enemy defenses to see what they have. Turn 3, DAF more troops and launch the 'real' attack based upon the results of the probe., correct? and you believe it is unfair for the defender to GATK between the time of your probe, and the turn 3 GATK, is this what you are saying? That is defender GATKs on order 1 of Turn 3 and caputures all your divisions you DAF?? If that is the situation, my opinion still stands. It has always been my understanding that from Pete and posts, that the attacking pop group is only protected long enough to launch a GATK on turn 2, that is for the first few orders so you can do a DAF, NEWA, DIV, GATK. If I am the defender, and I GATK after the invader's probe attack, I should be able to capure the alien pop group (beachhead). If the attacker only did a probe attack, he should be prepared to do another COLB, wait a turn, then unload and attack on a subsequent turn. I, for one, will routinely do GATK on my worlds near the end of my turn, to clear out such pop groups should they be there. And since we are pointing out flaws, I think it is a flaw that alien COLB on your planets are not reported to you. ie. "Alien #999 has established pop group #999 on planet Makebelieve 1b" As for capturing enemy divisions in pop groups, I'll have to think about that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WKE235 Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Turn 1 - COLB Turn 2 - OC, NEWA, DIV, GATK (probe) Now from my understanding, once you issue the GATK, your forces and the enemy forces engage in a battle. The enemy forces are in essence tagged has having fought. So if the defending player tries to issue a GATK on say order 36, that GATK will fail as his troops have already engaged in battle this turn and they cannot launch attacks (defend, yes, launch, no). Is this correct? If the above is true, here is how I've seen the rest or turn 2 and turn 3 playing out. Turn 2 - (Late in turn, your big troop transport arrives) OC, DIV (no need for a new army as the old one still exists even if all troops were destroyed). Turn 3 - GATK (if you think you can win) or Turn 3 - EAF (Evac as they're too strong) .. the enemy player issue Turn 3 - GATK for order 1. The EAF will work as the GATK orders are processed after others, basically the battle is flagged, all order 1 orders processed, then the fight. (Again, is this correct?) Quite frankly, I do not understand how you could have your troops captured except for poor planning and poor battle execution. This is of course based assuming the items above are correct, which is my understanding. I could be wrong though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradigm Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Quite frankly, I do not understand how you could have your troops captured except for poor planning and poor battle execution. This is of course based assuming the items above are correct, which is my understanding. I could be wrong though. The OC then DIV, ALL both takes an order block, so if the defender GATK's in the first order block while you are OC'ing the fresh divisions . . . I think after 1 turn an enemy population group should be fair game for the defender to GATK. How long do you think it should last? If a defending fleet arrives and stops further troop landings, do you think you should be able to come back 10 turns later and still have a beachhead on his homeworld? Why should an attacker be allowed to probe attack then wait a turn to see the results without risking the loss of his landing zone? This gives all advantages to the attacker. When an issue is in doubt, I think it should favor the defender. I also agree that when someone COLB's a planet, all empires that already have a population group on that body should receive a message. Also, when someone GATK's and captures an undefended body, the "defenders" should receive notification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locklyn Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Quite frankly, I do not understand how you could have your troops captured except for poor planning and poor battle execution. This is of course based assuming the items above are correct, which is my understanding. I could be wrong though. The OC then DIV, ALL both takes an order block, so if the defender GATK's in the first order block while you are OC'ing the fresh divisions . . . I think after 1 turn an enemy population group should be fair game for the defender to GATK. How long do you think it should last? If a defending fleet arrives and stops further troop landings, do you think you should be able to come back 10 turns later and still have a beachhead on his homeworld? Why should an attacker be allowed to probe attack then wait a turn to see the results without risking the loss of his landing zone? This gives all advantages to the attacker. When an issue is in doubt, I think it should favor the defender. I also agree that when someone COLB's a planet, all empires that already have a population group on that body should receive a message. Also, when someone GATK's and captures an undefended body, the "defenders" should receive notification. I don't see the problem here, it's always been that you have a single turns free reign after the COLB to ensure you get your bridgehead if the defender is weak enough to allow you the high orbital. What is more disconcerting is that using the tactics you and your ally did, with COLBing turn after turn is that you would actually be blocking the defender from counterattacking. As long as you had two or three empires taking turns COLBing you could always claim your "counter-attack free" turn...but I am sure that was not what you were trying for... /Locklyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradigm Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 I don't see the problem here, it's always been that you have a single turns free reign after the COLB to ensure you get your bridgehead if the defender is weak enough to allow you the high orbital. What is more disconcerting is that using the tactics you and your ally did, with COLBing turn after turn is that you would actually be blocking the defender from counterattacking. As long as you had two or three empires taking turns COLBing you could always claim your "counter-attack free" turn...but I am sure that was not what you were trying for... /Locklyn I have no idea what you are writing about. I've never attacked an active position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locklyn Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Sorry Paradigm, I was referring to Garys initial post but replied to yours. I could not understand what the problem he was posting about was. And as I said...having multiple positions COLBing in a row could be used to locking out the defender from counterattacking. Again my apologies if you thought I was implying you in my reply, it was for garys. /Locklyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breoghan Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Repeatedly using COLB would be 'gaming' it if its sole intent was to to stop the defender from counter-attacking legitimately. If it's a one time followup to a probe, it could be argued as being within the bounds of fairness, though I doubt the defender would think so when he is restrained from playing himself out of trouble by any slack attacking play. I doubt if any of the players so incensed about other instances they perceive to be 'gaming' would resort to it as a cheat (if for no other reason than that it would NOT remain a secret for long that they'd gone the hypocrite route, let alone it being something they object to in the first place!) - and I'm assuming it would come to the attention of Pete PDQ too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Carpenter Posted October 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Hmmmm.....why do a probe? Just dump a 1000 divisions and take the world...no sense in being overly cautious , and if the divisions are not on your HW , you can afford to lose them . We are not talking about tiny wienie 1000 man armies here. And there is such a thing as STRAT AGE EEEEEE. I know the enemy has a good number of troops. I do not know where they are located. I probe the HW's all in the same turn, and KNOW what to send where. PLEASE when you get to my HW just dump down a bunch of divisions and attack. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** GROUND COMBAT REPORT ** ----- JAENDA [ N (Deep Red) 4 VI ] [single Star] - 2 ----- MAC MacroHard # 2496 'Rainbow Stripes' Humans, most with glasses and computers IDE Imperial Demonic Envelopment # 737 'World Impaled On Pitchfork Over Open Flame' Call them imps, demons or devils. With their horns, claws, fangs and barbed tails, these smallish winged reptiles look like the quintessential mythical purveyors of evil and darkness as represented on a thousand worlds throughout the galaxy. Appearing to be nearly obsessed with destruction and killing, these creatures immediately attack in swarms any lifeform other than their own, with total disregard for their own lives. DRA Dragonheart # 3013 'Two Red Dragons En Passant' ** Table of Organization & Equipment: Its ON # 10853 ** MacroHard # 2496 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 Light Fanatics ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chemical Weapons [300] Irritant Agents Chemical Munitions Close Combat [4500] Ablative Armor, Battleaxe, Chainsaw, Club, Dagger, Flak Jacket M75 High Explosive Grenade, Spear, Sword Nuclear Weapons [700] Hydrolithium Bomb, Nuclear Bomb, Thermo-Atomic Bomb Small Arms [800] Carbine, Harpoon Gun, Semiautomatic Pistol, Shotgun ** Table of Organization & Equipment: Home Guard # 1 ** Imperial Demonic Envelopment # 737 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2 Fortress 5 Heavy Fanatics 2 Imperial Marines Air Force 23 Light Fanatics 2 Transport ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Air Defense [211200] Aegis Heavy Laser Cannon, Anti-Aircraft Artillery, Argus Laser Cannon Blowpipe Surface-to-Air Missile, Cerberus Laser Cannon, Nike-Hercules SAM Stinger SAM, Warden Point Defense System Air Support [315200] Advanced Attack Helicopter, Advanced Jet Bomber, Advanced Jet Fighter-Bomber Attack Helicopter, Helicopter, Jet Bomber, Jet Fighter-Bomber Strategic Bomber Air To Air [26400] Advanced Jet Fighter, Advanced Jet Fighter-Bomber, Jet Fighter Jet Fighter-Bomber Ammunition [19500] Armored Personnel Carrier, Halftrack, Heavy Truck, Truck Antitank [6000] Viper Anti-Tank Guided Missile Artillery [4000] Longbow, M82 Mortar Biological Weapons [9900] Harmful Biological Munitions Chemical Weapons [9900] Irritant Agents Chemical Munitions Close Combat [1859000] Ablative Armor, Assault Armor, Battle Armor, Battle Dress, Battleaxe Chainsaw, Club, Combat Environment Suit, Dagger, Flak Jacket M75 High Explosive Grenade, Morale Combat Drug, Performance Combat Drug Spear, Sword, Thermic Lance Engineering [8000] Barbed Wire, High Explosive Demolition Charge Heavy Weapons [16000] M203 Grenade Launcher, Recoilless Rifle Medical [27000] Cellular Enhancement Drug, Mk I Field Hospital, Morale Combat Drug Performance Combat Drug Nuclear Defense [1000] Perimeter Shield Nuclear Weapons [42900] ESP Deluder, Howler Bomb, Nuclear Bomb, Telekinetic Blaster Security [4000] Dartgun, Tangler Small Arms [25500] Carbine, Harpoon Gun, Laser Rifle, Semiautomatic Pistol, Shotgun Transport [39000] Armored Personnel Carrier, Halftrack, Heavy Truck, Truck ** Table of Organization & Equipment: Blood Guard # 101 ** Dragonheart # 3013 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 205 Colonial Settler 135 Combat Engineer 118 EW 90 Fortress 10 Guerrilla 230 Heavy Fanatics 100 Imperial Army Air Force 100 Imperial Army Armor 111 Imperial Army Artillery 100 Imperial Army Heavy Air Defense 280 Imperial Army Mechanized Infantry 100 Imperial Army Special Forces 116 Imperial Army Strategic Bomber 100 Imperial Guards Air Force 80 Imperial Guards Heavy Armor 76 Imperial Guards Strategic Bomber 86 Imperial Marines Air Force 95 Imperial Marines Armor 102 Imperial Marines Heavy Infantry 79 Imperial Marines Raiders 83 Imperial Marines Special Forces 87 Intelligence 169 Light Fanatics 34 Medical 80 Militia 100 Naval 90 NBC 37 Security 7 Transport ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Air Defense [26932800] Anti-Aircraft Artillery, Blowpipe Surface-to-Air Missile, Nike-Hercules SAM Patriot SAM, Stinger SAM Air Support [4447200] Advanced Attack Helicopter, Advanced Jet Fighter-Bomber, Attack Helicopter Helicopter, Jet Fighter-Bomber Air To Air [3781200] Advanced Jet Fighter-Bomber, Jet Fighter, Jet Fighter-Bomber Ammunition [2535750] Air Car, Armored Personnel Carrier, Battle Sled, Cargosub, Halftrack Heavy Halftrack, Heavy Truck, Hovercraft, Skimmer, Tckon Imperial Assault Boat Truck Amphibious [56580000] Air Car, Battle Sled, Cargosub, Hovercraft, Hovertank, Skimmer Tckon Imperial Assault Boat Antitank [7125100] Mamba ATGM, Tank Destroyer, Viper Anti-Tank Guided Missile Aquatic [251640000] Cargosub, Tckon Imperial Assault Boat Armor [603096000] Armored Car, Armored Personnel Carrier, Assault Tank, Ferret Excavator Tank Heavy Tank, Hovertank, Light Tank, Scout Tank, Tckon Imperial Assault Tank Tckon Imperial Assault Walker, Walker Artillery [140493990] Advanced Heavy Field Howitzer, Advanced Howitzer, Advanced MRLS Defender Counterbattery Radar, Guardian Counterbattery Radar Heavy Field Howitzer, Long Tom Howitzer, Longbow, M110 Mortar M82 Mortar, Mobile SSM, Multiple Rocket Launcher System, Particle Projector Cannon Surface-to-Surface Missile, Watchdog Counterbattery Radar Biological Defense [278800] Cellular Enhancement Drug, Mk I Biological Weapons Defenses Mk III Biological Weapons Defenses, Tckon Imperial Powered Assault Armor Biological Weapons [6321000] Dangerous Biological Munitions, Deadly Biological Munitions Harmful Biological Munitions Broken Terrain [48094200] Ferret Excavator Tank, Halftrack, Heavy Halftrack, Tckon Imperial Assault Walker Tckon Imperial Powered Assault Armor, Walker Camouflage [314300] Chameleon Cloak, Sneak Suit, Tckon Imperial Powered Assault Armor Chemical Defense [669800] Cellular Enhancement Drug, Chemscreen, Mk I Chemical Weapons Defenses Mk IV Chemical Weapons Defenses, Tckon Imperial Powered Assault Armor Chemical Weapons [61343100] Advanced Heavy Field Howitzer, Advanced Howitzer, Blister Agents Chemical Munitions Deadly Agents Chemical Munitions, Heavy Field Howitzer, Incapacitant Agents Chemical Munitions Irritant Agents Chemical Munitions, Lethal Agents Chemical Munitions Long Tom Howitzer, Mobile SSM, Surface-to-Surface Missile Close Combat [290607900] Ablative Armor, Assault Armor, Battle Armor, Battle Dress, Battleaxe Chainsaw, Club, Combat Environment Suit, Dagger, Flak Jacket Greataxe, Heavy Thermic Lance, M75 High Explosive Grenade, Morale Combat Drug Performance Combat Drug, Power Blade, Powered Assault Armor Spear, Sword, Tckon Imperial Powered Assault Armor, Thermic Lance Vibroaxe, Vibroblade Electronics Warfare [9375800] J108 Wraith Jammer, J2 Phantom Jammer, J41 Phantom Jammer, J453 Ghost Jammer Scrambler Engineering [7137000] Barbed Wire, C552 HE Demo Charge, Claymore Mine, Electric Fence HE Mine, High Explosive Demolition Charge, Razor Wire Environmental [41000] ECK Heavy Weapons [222248800] Battle Sled, Brumbar Infantry Support Gun, Hamburg Infantry Support Gun Intimidator Pulse Cannon, M203 Grenade Launcher, M205 Grenade Launcher Portable Missile Launcher, Recoilless Rifle, Tckon Imperial Assault Blaster Tckon Imperial Assault Boat Intelligence [8290000] Holographic Generator, K1 Terrier Scanner, Laser Communications Gear Scout Tank, Smoke Projector, Tethys Medium Range Sonar, Triton Short Range Sonar Medical [1821600] Cellular Enhancement Drug, Mk I Field Hospital, Mk II Field Hospital Morale Combat Drug, Performance Combat Drug Nuclear Defense [95850000] Haven Shield, Nuclear Damper, Perimeter Shield, Refuge Shield Sanctuary Shield, Stasis Field Generator, Tckon Imperial Powered Assault Armor Tower Shield Nuclear Weapons [351624000] Cobalt Fusion Bomb, Fusion Bomb, Hydrogen Bomb, Mobile SSM, Nuclear Bomb NW-88 Skyhammer, RXT-34 Fusion Burner, Solar Fusion Generator Surface-to-Surface Missile, Thermo-Atomic Bomb, Tri-Cobalt Fusion Bomb Open Terrain [210669750] Armored Car, Armored Personnel Carrier, Assault Tank, Heavy Halftrack Heavy Tank, Heavy Truck, Hovertank, Light Tank, Scout Tank, Tckon Imperial Assault Tank Tckon Imperial Assault Walker, Tckon Imperial Powered Assault Armor Truck, Walker Orbital Bombardment [22914000] Battle Sled, Mobile SSM, Surface-to-Surface Missile, Tckon Imperial Assault Boat Security [6630000] Dartgun, Electric Fence, Heavy Stunner, Stunner, Tangler, Tazer Small Arms [549240000] Assault Blaster, Assault Laser Rifle, Battle Blaster, Blaster Blaster Pistol, Carbine, Frostgun, Gamma-Ray Laser Rifle, Gas Cannon Gauss Rifle, Harpoon Gun, Harpoon Pistol, Heavy Blaster Rifle Heavy Carbine, Heavy Flamethrower, Heavy Gas Cannon, Heavy Laser Rifle Heavy Machinegun, Heavy Shotgun, Laser Pistol, Laser Rifle, Maser Rifle Needler, Semiautomatic Pistol, Shotgun, Sonic Rifle, Tckon Imperial Assault Blaster Tckon Imperial Battle Blaster, X-Ray Laser Rifle Space Defense [3150000] Defender Counterbattery Radar, Guardian Counterbattery Radar Haven Shield, Perimeter Shield, Refuge Shield, Sanctuary Shield Stasis Field Generator, Tower Shield Special Weapons [2194200] ICE-1, ICE-2, ICE-3, ICE-4, Particle Projector Cannon Subterranean [952350] Ferret Excavator Tank, Tckon Imperial Powered Assault Armor Transport [4896500] Air Car, Armored Personnel Carrier, Battle Sled, Cargosub, Halftrack Heavy Halftrack, Heavy Truck, Hovercraft, Skimmer, Tckon Imperial Assault Boat Truck ** Tactical Rating Modifiers ** Air Defense Air Support Air to Air Ammunition Amphibious Antitank Aquatic -10 -10 -10 -10 -10 -10 -10 Armor Artillery Biodefense Bioweapons Broken Terrain Camouflage Chemdefense -10 -10 -10 -10 -10 -10 -10 Chemweapons Close Combat EW Engineering Environmental ESP Heavy Weapons -10 -30 -10 -10 -10 +0 -10 Intel Medical Nuc Defense Nuc Weapons Open Terrain Orbital Bmb Security -10 -10 -10 -10 -10 -10 -10 Small Arms Space Defense Special Wpns Subterranean Telekinesis Telepathics Transport -10 -10 -10 -10 +0 +0 -10 Odds: -33.99763 Total tactical combat odds shifts: -34 Attacking divisions counted as if they were 1.5 divisions each for casualty purposes Defending divisions counted as if they were 3.05 divisions each for casualty purposes Ground combat results Attacker losses: 1 Light Fanatics Defender losses: <no losses> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfouasnon Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 You know Gary , why don't you just resign to the fact that Pete is stacking the whole game to just go against you , and either suck it up and quit your whining, or quit the game completely as you have in the past threatened to do . And I guarentee , if I ever find one of your HW's , I will come prepared , and will not just stop by with 1000 divisions . Who cares about strategy? Overwhelming somebody is so much more fun . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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