The New Victory

[Hamish]

Here's another one. Research centers.

So instead of automatically getting a unit at a certain tech level, each nation will have to assign points or research centers to get units. so one nation may invest heavily in Heavy Tanks, but be behind in Infantry, or Fighters or BB etc. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to do this, but I got the idea from Supernova. Each country gets so many research centers (RC), say 10, each turn you can assign each RC to a technology or unit until you complete it. Each tech has prerequisites you have to research first. So, you couldn't get INF 40 until you research INF 39. The research could also combine other areas besides just units. For example, the different TPL lvls could be part of the research. So maybe to get the B-29 HB, you need to research B-24j and Strategic Bombing 10.

Research could also be applies to factories or resources. You get improved air factories and your factories produce 11 air points instead of 10?

Advanced petroleum research allows you to produce an extra 25% from your oil wells, so a PET production of 100 would now produce 125 PET.

etc., etc. you get the idea.

 

This would also add a little more variety to the game instead of checking, and saying, 'ok, he has German tech and its tech lvl 8, so he now has Ju-88a-4s" Well, maybe his reseach didn't allow it yet.

Maybe even cross techs, so I may have US tech air, but British BBs? Just depends on what I research.

Thoughts? comments?

 

Maybe we can make research part of the NTS system. You can choose to build as much units as you can, but you will get limited research points, or you can choose to build only the bare minimum and invest in better units for the future.

[Rogue Leader]

Here's another one. Research centers.

So instead of automatically getting a unit at a certain tech level, each nation will have to assign points or research centers to get units. so one nation may invest heavily in Heavy Tanks, but be behind in Infantry, or Fighters or BB etc. I'm sure there are plenty of ways to do this, but I got the idea from Supernova. Each country gets so many research centers (RC), say 10, each turn you can assign each RC to a technology or unit until you complete it. Each tech has prerequisites you have to research first. So, you couldn't get INF 40 until you research INF 39. The research could also combine other areas besides just units. For example, the different TPL lvls could be part of the research. So maybe to get the B-29 HB, you need to research B-24j and Strategic Bombing 10.

Research could also be applies to factories or resources. You get improved air factories and your factories produce 11 air points instead of 10?

Advanced petroleum research allows you to produce an extra 25% from your oil wells, so a PET production of 100 would now produce 125 PET.

etc., etc. you get the idea.

 

This would also add a little more variety to the game instead of checking, and saying, 'ok, he has German tech and its tech lvl 8, so he now has Ju-88a-4s" Well, maybe his reseach didn't allow it yet.

Maybe even cross techs, so I may have US tech air, but British BBs? Just depends on what I research.

Thoughts? comments?

 

Maybe we can make research part of the NTS system. You can choose to build as much units as you can, but you will get limited research points, or you can choose to build only the bare minimum and invest in better units for the future.

 

 

I really like that idea. It would be easier to introduce French and Italian tech into the game with the ability to cross tech. How about you can only cross tech with what a TA has or the tech of a defeated enemy? You can purchase tech from a TA? The Germans and Japanese did that on several projects.

 

A couple of things that need to be address

 

1) ship building. I think it is ridiculous that you can build 2 BBs in 2 weeks! It took 3 years or more most of the BBs to be built. There needs to be a system where you set your naval nts for a year or 6 months. You are able to purchase a variable of packages that are available to that level. You can purchase the number of packages equal to the number of shipyards you control for 6 months. Say with level 4 you could get 4 BBS and 4 CA or 6 CA and 6 CL or 15 AKs. A limited ix and match with delivery spread out through the 6 months.

 

Capitols need to be of more importance. If your capitol falls then you lose half or a quarter of your cash. You can't run intel ops until you establish a new capitol. Also you should have the ability to move your capitol, but it would be reported in the rwe.

[jpd]

1. Abolish the requirement for MCR within home countries. Your entire home country effectively becomes one big AIC net, with automatic transfer of resources etc for builds & supply (provided the city/province in question isn't isolated.) Does away with all those fiddly home mcr's, BUT mcr would still be necessary for any transfer outside your own country. That way, mcr becomes essentially a logistical supply chain relating to invasion and combat, maintaining the need to protect your supply chain during invasion & the opportunity for your opponent to interdict it, but feels less like playing a spreadsheet when adjusting home requirements!

 

 

To be honest, I don't agree with this one. Having one AIC makes it to tricky and to easy.

 

I do agree however that this mcr work can be boring especially in the larger nations, so maybe we can make a standing order mcr that transports a fixed amount from A to B.

 

B

Heh. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

 

I've solved this particular problem on my own end. By setting up a library of pre-defined transport routes (which I save in the same file format as the normal turn tile), and a transport matrix, which shows all top level AIC cities (including unconnected ones), together with current effective levels (which include order effects) of all transportable resources. Negatives (which need to be adjusted with transport) are highlighted in red.

 

Works like a charm. I have my transports for the next turn up and running in about 5 minutes or so.

[Spartan]

I’d like to see a different cost for bases dedicated to fighters, but unfortunately I see a whole can of worms opening up in trying to develop a system for that. The most obvious option is to have two different types of air bases. One for bombers and one for fighters, but then what do you do with all the other types of aircraft? How do you decide which type of base level the other aircraft belong to? This just seems to open up a whole new can of worms.

[Saint Michael]

DROPPED POSITIONS

 

It is looking like in Game #86 we are loosing 3 or 4 players who are dropping for several reasons, which has been pointed out that it will change alot of the world balance of power. Need to have a better control of a dropped position. Now, The computer trashes all exciting forces and builds LDB,s. What if the computer takes over the exciting units. Supplies and repairs them if they are in an AIC with the ability to repair and supply them. Maybe even upgrade units and build more of the same units (Air & Ground), if the resources are available. Navel would be a bigger problem. If at sea ether sink them or they just stay supplied and will attack any countries ships(that they are at war with) that enter there sea zone.

Just throwing out some ideas to get you thinking about this part of the game.

[Spartan]

Another must have in any new version is an automatic turn processor. For those of you who may recall the World Conquest and Modern World Conquest games, that company had an excellent system for turn execution where you uploaded your turn to their site (and could confirm it online) and it processed at a set time. There was no manual intervention (unless there was a problem). No backdating of turns or concern over which day a turn would run.... For Victory! it would mean that turns could run automatically at midnight CST (or whatever set time) every night. Emailed results are generated automatically and sent to the players. Simplify Russ' effort substantially and let him focus on enhancements, problem resolution, etc.

 

Jared

 

 

HERE, HERE! This is all my fellow Victory friends and I talk about 90% of the time when discussing how to improve Victory. An automated system such as you are describing and we've talked about, would do a number of things.

 

1) It would simplify Russ' life.

2) It would end the seemingly endless waiting for turns to be returned. We all know the day they're supposed to get back to us, Russ is very good about keeping to his schedule, but it's still frustrating never knowing exactly what time of day it will get to us.

3) This is one way, among others, to lure in more new players and bring back former players.

4) Russ and RTG will make A LOT more money.

 

Nation Management Aides

Another thing that should be developed and made available is an updated Vicman! program that works on Windows 7, and that is better at tracking FOOD. The current version has always been buggy at best on this point.

 

Also, develop a program that makes it easier to track rail usage and possibly that even integrates a function that tracks your FUEL, MUN & GEN usage (among other things) action by action as you enter your turn.

 

For the purists, these things may seem to be taking something away from the real work it takes to be a 'pro' at managing your nation turn by turn. The fact is though that this game in it's current format and this day and age is NOT enticing new players and even luring them away from more 'user friendly' games.

 

I don't want to 'dumb down' the game. I like feeling that if I spend this extra time on managing my nation and preparing my military strategies that I'm sure some don't I think I can (and do) gain an edge. The problem though is that this game is becoming more and insular. Overwhelmingly, the same people play the game again and again, and that's not all bad. Repeat customers are great! The problem is that we aren't getting enough 'new blood' and more importantly that means Russ isn't getting a new and expanding customer base.

 

This game, even in it's current form is AWESOME in some many ways, but it could be so much better, even if the only change that was made was in how it was managed, processed, and made accessible to it's users through the potential 'game aides' I mentioned.

 

Finally, with all this 'automation', I don't think it is unreasonable to expect that RTG could lower the price of playing the game. Less work needing to be done by Russ and RTG in the long run AND more customers would mean being able to charge less. The simple fact is that whether we're in a boom or bust economy, people are always making hard choices about how they want to spend their entertainment money based on what's out there and what they're getting for their dollar. Honestly, I'm spending a significant percentage of my free time and entertainment money working these turns, and I do really love it, but I think for all of us time and money is precious.

 

I just think there is a better way to make the most of not only what we're getting as customers for our time and money, but what RTG is getting from this business in potential profits and an expanding customer base.

 

Tell me what you think.

[Hamish]

Another must have in any new version is an automatic turn processor. For those of you who may recall the World Conquest and Modern World Conquest games, that company had an excellent system for turn execution where you uploaded your turn to their site (and could confirm it online) and it processed at a set time. There was no manual intervention (unless there was a problem). No backdating of turns or concern over which day a turn would run.... For Victory! it would mean that turns could run automatically at midnight CST (or whatever set time) every night. Emailed results are generated automatically and sent to the players. Simplify Russ' effort substantially and let him focus on enhancements, problem resolution, etc.

 

Jared

 

 

HERE, HERE! This is all my fellow Victory friends and I talk about 90% of the time when discussing how to improve Victory. An automated system such as you are describing and we've talked about, would do a number of things.

 

1) It would simplify Russ' life.

2) It would end the seemingly endless waiting for turns to be returned. We all know the day they're supposed to get back to us, Russ is very good about keeping to his schedule, but it's still frustrating never knowing exactly what time of day it will get to us.

3) This is one way, among others, to lure in more new players and bring back former players.

4) Russ and RTG will make A LOT more money.

 

Nation Management Aides

Another thing that should be developed and made available is an updated Vicman! program that works on Windows 7, and that is better at tracking FOOD. The current version has always been buggy at best on this point.

 

Also, develop a program that makes it easier to track rail usage and possibly that even integrates a function that tracks your FUEL, MUN & GEN usage (among other things) action by action as you enter your turn.

 

For the purists, these things may seem to be taking something away from the real work it takes to be a 'pro' at managing your nation turn by turn. The fact is though that this game in it's current format and this day and age is NOT enticing new players and even luring them away from more 'user friendly' games.

 

I don't want to 'dumb down' the game. I like feeling that if I spend this extra time on managing my nation and preparing my military strategies that I'm sure some don't I think I can (and do) gain an edge. The problem though is that this game is becoming more and insular. Overwhelmingly, the same people play the game again and again, and that's not all bad. Repeat customers are great! The problem is that we aren't getting enough 'new blood' and more importantly that means Russ isn't getting a new and expanding customer base.

 

This game, even in it's current form is AWESOME in some many ways, but it could be so much better, even if the only change that was made was in how it was managed, processed, and made accessible to it's users through the potential 'game aides' I mentioned.

 

Finally, with all this 'automation', I don't think it is unreasonable to expect that RTG could lower the price of playing the game. Less work needing to be done by Russ and RTG in the long run AND more customers would mean being able to charge less. The simple fact is that whether we're in a boom or bust economy, people are always making hard choices about how they want to spend their entertainment money based on what's out there and what they're getting for their dollar. Honestly, I'm spending a significant percentage of my free time and entertainment money working these turns, and I do really love it, but I think for all of us time and money is precious.

 

I just think there is a better way to make the most of not only what we're getting as customers for our time and money, but what RTG is getting from this business in potential profits and an expanding customer base.

 

Tell me what you think.

 

I completely agree. Automatic turn processing would make TA cooperation easier as well. With all the waiting for battle reports, sometimes you can't even fit 5 countries into a tech period. I would be willing to help out with the programming, once RL settles back to normal.

[The Saint]

economics + automation

 

Spartan brings up a good point about automatizing the system. I think my girlfriend would be a bit less jealous of Victory! as well knowing that I keep looking for my turn (any minute now!).

 

Here's how I look at it at two levels:

 

1) less work for RTG - more time for other things

2) agree with the above about longevity and getting more players in.

3) fees -- certainly less work means one could charge less; which would encourage more players to play. however in the past 18 years or so that I have been playing, I don't believe the fee

structure has gone up. so to be fair, despite inflation Russ has kept his costs stable and one could argue that the technology has helped him keep his time/costs down and therefore not had to go up.

4) more automated turns with VICMAN and VOIP type software would assist in being able to keep track of more, do turns faster, etc.

5) I would perhaps play in more games. I think finances are not the only budget issue, but also the amount of time I am willing to put into it. If I can manage to do my turn quicker and automate with my TA's better, I would play in more games. (don't tell my girlfriend).

 

As this is a business - it's about customer retention and gaining new ones. I think these items will help lure other like minded war gamers and under 40 crowd to perhaps give it a shot.

 

TS

[dageraad]

As this discussion has died a bit:

 

Combined Army stats

 

"Combined" meaning all countries not being a major power, so no Brittish, American, USA, German, Russian or Japanese units.

 

This is a tech pack that is a bit complementairy to the American one:

good units to start with, but no development after turn 32.

Take for instance the TL 1 Armor: a DSM 0.9 unit!.

Better naval options than Germany, but worse than GB.

 

The choice of units can not be entirely dictated by logic and history alone, as the emphasis is on creating a viable alternative.

I will add Naval and Air units when I get to it.

 

I am also working on the idea of a Japanese Tech.

[snoopy]

I am also working on the idea of a Japanese Tech.

 

I am also working on an idea of winning the lottery and enjoying a life of luxury

 

oh well ateast the first part went ok... but with 10 eur's the second part is not coming along

 

so I am now working on an idea thinking to improve my winning chances and who knows if ever someday....

[dageraad]

I am also working on the idea of a Japanese Tech.

 

I am also working on an idea of winning the lottery and enjoying a life of luxury

 

oh well ateast the first part went ok... but with 10 eur's the second part is not coming along

 

so I am now working on an idea thinking to improve my winning chances and who knows if ever someday....

 

About the Japanese units:

As every tech should bring its own unique strongpoints and weaknesses:

Give the Japanese:

- Excellent naval options and long range air units in the early- and early midgame.

- Imperial infantry and good Marines to compensate for:

- Lousy mechanised and armored units. Starting off by being equal to the USA.

- Marine regiments.

[Warmaster]

economics + automation

 

Spartan brings up a good point about automatizing the system. I think my girlfriend would be a bit less jealous of Victory! as well knowing that I keep looking for my turn (any minute now!).

 

Here's how I look at it at two levels:

 

1) less work for RTG - more time for other things

2) agree with the above about longevity and getting more players in.

3) fees -- certainly less work means one could charge less; which would encourage more players to play. however in the past 18 years or so that I have been playing, I don't believe the fee

structure has gone up. so to be fair, despite inflation Russ has kept his costs stable and one could argue that the technology has helped him keep his time/costs down and therefore not had to go up.

4) more automated turns with VICMAN and VOIP type software would assist in being able to keep track of more, do turns faster, etc.

5) I would perhaps play in more games. I think finances are not the only budget issue, but also the amount of time I am willing to put into it. If I can manage to do my turn quicker and automate with my TA's better, I would play in more games. (don't tell my girlfriend).

 

As this is a business - it's about customer retention and gaining new ones. I think these items will help lure other like minded war gamers and under 40 crowd to perhaps give it a shot.

 

TS

[Warmaster]

Russ,

 

Any update on some of the basic themes or major changes you have established for the Vic2????

 

My basic wish list is some sort of Strategic movement option allowing units to triple or quadruple their movement rates when taking road movement exclusively through controlled provinces. For instance the German could radidly shift armoured and infantry divisions from Poland to the French border using the Autobohn and did not have to stop and dismount in fear of the enemy being "just over the next hill" as they would when moving into an enemy controlled province.

 

An the BIG change is airdrops issues. The middle and end of the game has currently degeneratied into nothing but a "snipers shooting range" as players with air superiory have the ability to land 2 divisions of Airborne troops DEEP into your territory and take out your airbases, FC routes, and AIC hubs. The defender has to keep massive levels of his army gaurding his AIC net, FC routes, and Airbases just to be able to keep his front line troops from being totaly obliterated by the enemy with air superiority. I find my end game has become being put under total seige around my AIC net city with fighter bases just because the enemy airborne can take them out at will if I do not have them defended to the hilt.

 

I would hope the rules might address some some issues like "what is the value of an infantry division?, not much point in building them as far as I can see. Why do obsolete planes like the B-18 exist at the end of the game but most players don't waste the effort to upgrade them.

 

And the Il-2 Shurtmovik. the most widely produced plane of the war has negligble value in this game. You have to station it up close to the front lives where it is susciptible being overun and destroyed so most players ue it in mountain regions only. Can't the rules make this plane a valuable asset?

[SgtBalicki]

There are lots of features that I would like to see added to Victory 2.0 for fun/interest reasons. But one I would like to see dropped/modified purely for its irritation aspect is the rule that cities will attempt to stockpile 5 turns of food, the rationale being that they are stockpiling food to prevent starvation. But this often causes other cities in the AIC net to suffer starvation unless you have a large surplus of food in the net. Its simply irritating. Just drop the food stockpile rule and let the AIC net take care of the cities in regards to food the same way it does with resources. Add the ability to create food depots as with supplies if one really wants to stockpile food for a city.

 

Regards

[Mickey]

- An OMG where you attack with only part of an army, leaving the rest of the stack for another action, like a city attack. A sort of "split"attack.

+1.

 

- Make supply drawing a standing order for each unit that withou General supply at the end of the turn. Only General Supply and not more than 1 turn worth of supply.

Or at least make newly constructed divisions draw supplies automatically, I tend to foget that very often, ending up with damaged new units.

And I can't imagine why anyone would want to create a new division while not supplying them.

 

 

 

 

I like the idea of newly built ground units automatically drawing supplies, but I see a possible problem... if the new ground units grab all of the GEN,

any Air Forces in the city will suffer at the end of the turn. Instead of having to remember to Supply Draw Ground, you will have to remember to build

supply depots. Maybe Russ could have the automatic Supply Draw Ground happen after the Air Forces draw their GEN?

 

and given the historical nature of the air force you could always move the Air Gen to occur at both the start and the end phases of a turn, again before any auto army gen replenishment (think of all films showing air behind the lines and officers getting their groundstaff to get supplies......)

Or instead of doing a SDG ALL, just have the unit 'built' with one turns worth of GEN and consider it the cost of building the unit. Then next turn, when you can use the unit, you can SDG whatever you feel is appropiate.

 

Easy and practical... i like this.