PhaseDragon Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 I think the co-location requirement should only exist to reach an agreement but that breaking an agreement should be allowed at any time just by issuing the order regardless of diplomat location. Still, it is a diplomatic action and should require a diplomat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octagon999 Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 I think the co-location requirement should only exist to reach an agreement but that breaking an agreement should be allowed at any time just by issuing the order regardless of diplomat location. Still, it is a diplomatic action and should require a diplomat. That's the whole problem. Its not a "diplomatic" action. Its PURELY an order to your own fleets on how they are to behave. That's it. The empire in question doesn't even get notification of what your orders to your fleet are. Forget what the order is called. Just pay attention to what it does. Its the name that I think is confusing everyone. Its not a diplomatic order. Its an internal fleet order pure and simple. Because of this, it also doesn't require any kind of phased change. One day, your fleet shoots them on sight, the next, you are best buddys. I've discussed this in depth with Pete to make sure that I understood the full situation, and this is what he has said, straight up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Azuth Posted March 28, 2004 Report Share Posted March 28, 2004 <----- Here's what my Commander had to say about this issue. I agree the ROE is a "Military Order" determined by the military (sometimes with some political involvement), therefore, it should NOT be called a Political Agreement Proposal (PAP). Call it something else like DCL (Defense Condition Level), whatever. That would remove the confusion of it involving a Diplomat. However, the military DOES NOT make Trade Pacts or Alliances. The politicians do. Therefore, you should be required to use a Diplomat to establish a Trade Pact or Alliance of any level. It shouldn't be as easy to make a phone call 3 Trillion miles away to someone you've never met and say "Hey, how would you like to set up a Trade Pact or an Alliance. It may take me 100 years to get to you but this wine we want to trade with you should be exquisite by then." In addition, an Alliance between Empires should mean more. There should be a bonus of some kind. Oh, sure we can say we we won't shoot at you....oh but wait, but it can happen because that's up to the military ROE. In that case, there should be some kind of penalty for shooting you're own ally. Boy, these discussion gets me thirsty. Back to the StarBar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locklyn Posted May 5, 2004 Report Share Posted May 5, 2004 What was the end result of this discussion? How does the PAP work now and what does it do? Cheers /Locklyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan Elder 'Keen Posted June 29, 2004 Report Share Posted June 29, 2004 With both alliance and war looming on the horizon, this "political stuff" has become an emergent issue for me. After reviewing the thread, to recap some problems raised earlier which I can now appreciate: 1) There is no real meat behind the whole political alliance structure other than ROE settings. Military Alliance versus an Alliance? Who cares.... 2) Colocation may be suitable for some PAPs, but it is cumbersome simply for attempting to avoid blowing up a new found friend as you attempt to explore along each other's borders. As a solution, if the political system is beefed up with different bonuses and burdens for each level, some PAPs should not require colocation so that immediate ROE coordination is possible. For example: a diplomat for Total Alliance or Alliance and a merchant for a Trade Alliance makes sense if there is an economic benefit involved with the agreement. I see the Military Alliance as the best tool for ROE coordination without any economic or political baggage. 3) Please provide a place on turns for notification of PAPs and your current status levels with known alien empires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurassier Posted June 30, 2004 Report Share Posted June 30, 2004 Good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTGPete Posted October 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2004 For now the colocation requirement for PAP's has been lifted. There is no reason to require it since agreements are one-way and used only for your ROE's in any event. There are no mystical advantages for alliances, so if you want to form an alliance with somebody on the other side of the galaxy, that's fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted October 4, 2004 Report Share Posted October 4, 2004 Chucks Pete...I was going to sneak diplomats onto peoples planets and do a declare ennemy and then kill all my diplomats...Then we are at war and they can only be neutral.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted October 4, 2004 Report Share Posted October 4, 2004 Is there any chance that we can get some sort of printout listing all of the various agreements that are in place? It becomes a real pain to keep track of all of that stuff if you have differing levels and what not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostworlds Posted October 5, 2004 Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 I am dismayed that I went to the trouble to follow the rules to send a diplomat to totally ally with someone and now the rules are changed. What a waste of time and effort to build the ship, put the diplomat on it and coordinate with another empire. What a waste of orders. Lostworlds 1290 Richard Johns Currently at war with the Pheonix Arisen Alliance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTGPete Posted October 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2004 Richard - I agree, sorry about the lost effort As it turns out, colocation was a terrible idea to begin with, and served no purpose, so is gone now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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