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Eldred
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Thanks for the info Pete, you pointed out something I had missed regarding the Ground Combat. As I understand what you are saying is...

 

2 empires can have say 5 divisions each. Empire A has superior tech and therefore better TAC ratings than empire B. However Empire B bought big GC modifiers and empire A didn't, so empire B's troops annihilate Empire A's despite being technologically inferior. That's a nice touch, will it show in the battle reports?

 

Also in that same vein can we obtain details of other empire's racial setups via diplomacy? This will at least give empire's a chance of learning each other's strengths and weaknesses - it could even be linked to the seemingly redundant diplomacy modifier!

 

You didn't say much about space combat so I guess the impact is much less than that for the ground combat modifier?

 

I still think that there is an imbalance towards SRP races. Technology influences every aspect of the empire so I believe this issue cannot be looked at in the same way as choosing bigger colonisation bonuses, longer lifespans or 3 heads!! If it is fairly balanced then why does every experienced player on this board seem to concur that saving at least 200-300 SRPs is essential - I have just re-read v2.50 of the rules and there is no hint in there that this might be the case. I think Laserwolf's idea of boosting a lifeform's bonus to address this as opposed to tinkering with SRPs seems an interesting proposition :)

 

As for my empire I must admit the idea of starting a-fresh and not wasting all those orders on stupid mistakes and bad ideas has considerable merit :D

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Eldred - Do not despair. It matters little that your trading partner has higher tech than you right now. What matters is what tech paths you choose for the future. All it takes is a single low level tech that your neighbor or enemy doesn't have to give you the advantage. As far as SRP's go they only work for so long and will only buy you a certain level of stuff. Everyone who saved lots of SRP's has either crippled themselves with lifeform penalties to get the jpoints or has not taken lifeform bonuses. Those bonuses are not cheaply overcome with tech. Even with the recent changes to some attrition techs it is still expensive and difficult to get rid of attrition.

 

To my mind what matters most in this game is what you got for starting system and homeworld resources and who your neighbors are. A strong economy with lots of colonies will easily outproduce a high tech position that can't colonize very well. You need to play to your strengths as much as you can.

 

As far as trading goes, you can always just trade base materials for your finished products. Those are always useful. Even mundane items like cargo bays, drone racks, fighter bays and colonist berthings are very valuable.

 

:)

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It seems to me that RTG is nearly adamant against any kind of direct Technology sharing. Everything in SN:ROTE is designed to prevent 'runaway' tech growth. In many other games, tech eventually overwhelms every other aspect of the game, or so the argument goes. I really haven't witnessed it personally in Space Opera PBeMs, but I have seen it in High Fantasy PBeMs where Magic ruled the roost. So I do not doubt that it could occur.

 

Would I like to be able to do some kind of Tech Sharing? Sure I would. I'd like to see a lot of things in this game -- Reverse Engineering, Tech Piracy/Espionage, Direct Hire Mercenaries and more transparency in the Rules on how the game works -- to name a few. Heck, I'm still trying to figure out how to use Mercenaries in the game without having to constantly declare war on the Mercenary to get the worlds the Mercenary captures. Right now, as I understand the rules, if the Brainiacs 'hire' the Thugians to conquer the industrious Mechaniaks. Once the Thugians had smote the Mechaniaks and taken their homeworld, the Brainiacs would have to declare war on the Thugians to get the world. I may be thinking too 'in the box' on this one. :D

 

Anyhow, back from my tangent, from the Introduction, SN:ROTE is a game of Galactic Conquest, Colonization and Exploration. Basically, it is what you make of it. If you don't like how your Empire is doing, change it. There is no rule that says you can't constantly drop and make new Empires until you find one you like. The only inhibiting factor is money, IMO. I don't think the RTG cares if you churn-and-burn set-ups. They want you to be a happy customer so you keep playing (and thereby paying).

 

M2CW,

 

-SK :)

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It seems to me that RTG is nearly adamant against any kind of direct Technology sharing. Everything in SN:ROTE is designed to prevent 'runaway' tech growth. In many other games, tech eventually overwhelms every other aspect of the game, or so the argument goes. I really haven't witnessed it personally in Space Opera PBeMs, but I have seen it in High Fantasy PBeMs where Magic ruled the roost. So I do not doubt that it could occur.

 

Would I like to be able to do some kind of Tech Sharing? Sure I would. I'd like to see a lot of things in this game -- Reverse Engineering, Tech Piracy/Espionage, Direct Hire Mercenaries and more transparency in the Rules on how the game works -- to name a few. Heck, I'm still trying to figure out how to use Mercenaries in the game without having to constantly declare war on the Mercenary to get the worlds the Mercenary captures. Right now, as I understand the rules, if the Brainiacs 'hire' the Thugians to conquer the industrious Mechaniaks. Once the Thugians had smote the Mechaniaks and taken their homeworld, the Brainiacs would have to declare war on the Thugians to get the world. I may be thinking too 'in the box' on this one. :blink:

 

Anyhow, back from my tangent, from the Introduction, SN:ROTE is a game of Galactic Conquest, Colonization and Exploration. Basically, it is what you make of it. If you don't like how your Empire is doing, change it. There is no rule that says you can't constantly drop and make new Empires until you find one you like. The only inhibiting factor is money, IMO. I don't think the RTG cares if you churn-and-burn set-ups. They want you to be a happy customer so you keep playing (and thereby paying).

 

M2CW,

 

-SK :ph34r:

And this is indeed an excellent summary....

 

I have seen tech 'ruin' many games, both PBM and PC - what I've seen in this game on that aspect is perfect - IMHO

 

You can hire mercenaries & conduct piracy, but you have to do it with a real live player, there's no free luinch for the total introvert who'd be better off playing the AI on his computer. This is one more reason I'd like the Character Stuff and Diplomacy next on the agenda after the combat is done.

 

Lastly on taking the worlds/pop gps from the Mercs...

 

Having read in to what Pete posted above and re-viewing the GATK order along with trying to remember something that was posted ages ago....

 

I'm pretty sure that, if the mercenary player has gone (ie been re-loaded onto his fleet), then when you issue the GATK order there will be no actual battle, but you will now own all the Pop Gps on the planet.... :unsure:

 

Chief Warmaster to Ur-Lord Tedric

 

PS Thanks for the post above Pete, that was very useful :drunk:

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Here's an idea along the lines of 'tech sharing' without giving away the farm. Let's say that Ur-Lord Tedric has developed this really cool Mk III Pencil Sharpener that I'd like to have. We are friends, so I send one or two of my top Scientist characters to study at Ur-Lord's University and then there is a percentage chance that I get a tech bump on something Ur-Lord has. (much like our scientists currently do at home)

Orrrr, say we are on not so good terms, and I send one of my Special Agents to one of his Science Labs/University, etc. and I try to pilfer a tech hit?.....

Orrr, I send a Diplomat to the local StarBar and try to get one of his Scientists drunk so he will spill the beans...... :drunk:

 

Just a thought.

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Much angst may disappear should species be allowed to grant tech assists to each other. This order seems an odd omission from our arsenal.

 

Thanks,

 

KOTEC

The potential for abuse doing this would be so incredible, I would probably drop if there was any way for direct transfer of tech from one empire to another.

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Here's an idea along the lines of 'tech sharing' without giving away the farm. Let's say that Ur-Lord Tedric has developed this really cool Mk III Pencil Sharpener that I'd like to have. We are friends, so I send one or two of my top Scientist characters to study at Ur-Lord's University and then there is a percentage chance that I get a tech bump on something Ur-Lord has. (much like our scientists currently do at home)

Orrrr, say we are on not so good terms, and I send one of my Special Agents to one of his Science Labs/University, etc. and I try to pilfer a tech hit?.....

Orrr, I send a Diplomat to the local StarBar and try to get one of his Scientists drunk so he will spill the beans...... :drunk:

 

Just a thought.

:lol:

 

Beware - Health Warning!

 

Sharp Pencils can be an eye hazard......

 

Chief H&S Officer to Ur-Lord Tedric

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Much angst may disappear should species be allowed to grant tech assists to each other.  This order seems an odd omission from our arsenal.

 

Thanks,

 

KOTEC

The potential for abuse doing this would be so incredible, I would probably drop if there was any way for direct transfer of tech from one empire to another.

Ummm, yes me too, probably....... :drunk:

 

There's just no need - you can always trade, or hire mercs.......

 

It's only those that don't trust, or like to be complete megalomaniacs or total isolationsists that will suffer....

 

And, IMHO, that's not so bad.......

 

Mx

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Actually trade and hiring mercs doesn't help in all instances. Mercenaries are great for combat. Trade can get you raw materials and ship components. What you cannot trade are Installations. I can sell you Mk V Force Shields, but I cannot build a Domed City for you. Heck, I can even give you the Improved Construction Materials to build a Domed City, but I cannot sell you a Do-It-Yourself Domed City Kit. Antimatter Engine? Sure. Antimatter Power Complex? Not on your life. The ability to do something like that would enhance the game, IMO. :drunk:

 

-SK :ph34r:

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Actually trade and hiring mercs doesn't help in all instances. Mercenaries are great for combat. Trade can get you raw materials and ship components. What you cannot trade are Installations. I can sell you Mk V Force Shields, but I cannot build a Domed City for you. Heck, I can even give you the Improved Construction Materials to build a Domed City, but I cannot sell you a Do-It-Yourself Domed City Kit. Antimatter Engine? Sure. Antimatter Power Complex? Not on your life. The ability to do something like that would enhance the game, IMO. :drunk:

 

-SK :ph34r:

Ummmm,

 

Thinks laterally for a mo' :blink:

 

Is it not possible (and it's a bit of a go round, and if not wanted by the Powers That Be could be stopped) to establish a Pop Gp, build said items and then have the intended recipient 'conquer' the pop gp?

 

Presto, the target empire has a Pop gp with fully functioning Domed Cities and Power Plant.

 

Now, it's likely, of course, that the sort of things we're talking about are actually few and far between, so this is perfectly viable.

 

It's also not unreasonable that the intended recipint has to do a fair bit of organisation - building Transportation Centres and the like - to take advantage of what's happened...

 

Chief Planner to Ur-Lord Tedric

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While one could certainly use the Pre-Fab Pop Group method, it has one major drawback from my perspective. It uses my Population, not my client's. I don't know how feasible it would be, but this is what I was envisioning. Add two new features to SN:ROTE, a ground unit and an order. The new unit would be the Civil Engineering Corps, the CEC, which would cost 1 POP, 50000 Steel, 50000 Food Concentrates and 150000 Heavy Machinery, plus require 1 Troop Berthing to transport. The new Order would be Client Construct or CCON.

 

The CCON order would work just like the CON order, only you could use it on other Empires Pop Groups. The restrictions would be that it would require some kind of cooperative Diplomatic Agreement to exist between the two Empires (e.g. Trade Pact) and at least one Civil Engineering Corps. A further restriction would be that a single CEC could only process a fixed amount of Construction Materials (e.g. 50,000) per turn. So one CEC could build 1 Shipyard Slip or 100 Shipyards or 20% of a Hydroelectric Plant in a single turn.

 

FWIW,

-SK :ph34r:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Wow. I should check in here more often. Quite a cool discussion.

 

[A] game where nobody really wins.

 

True.

 

The powergaming mindset left over from the SN days runs contrary to the design of this game.

 

I'm happy with my colonizers but I may roll another "fun" empire down the line without regard to worrying about tech paths in the least.

 

Brain blob races seems cool to explore tech trees.

 

The larger tech items seem to take more than SRPs - and its not like a race with maximum research can somehow manage to develop a fleet and vanquish an active foe who spent all his/her SRPs on racial bonuses anyway.

 

The points on trade between the race with more SRPs and the one without them are quite true (I AM a non-SRP race :alien: )

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