Prospective Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Hi all, A buddy is considering joining in the game (at my arm twisting of course). Anyway, he came up with the following design. I'd like to inputs on it. It's sort of a "brain blob" type design, in that it's tiny, decrepit and clumsy. However, there are decent space combat bonuses (+8), ground combat bonuses(+10), close combat bonuses (+7) and defensive bonus (+9). What role will these bonuses have on the overall combat worthiness of the race? Can the bonuses overcome the tiny, decrepit, clumsiness of the design? CATEGORY SELECTION PTS SIZE APP RB CB SB SCB GCB CCB DB LIFEFORM Winged Mammal (120) +4 +2 -4 SHAPE Humanoid 0 SIZE Tiny (480) INGESTION Photosynthesis Ltd 250 +3 REPRODUCTION Superior 400 +5 HEAD ARMS TAIL Single Tail - Prehensile 19 +1 +2 +1 +1 +1 BODY ARMOR STRENGTH Decrepit (480) AGILITY Clumsy (560) CONSTITUTION Superior 340 +3 +2 +4 INTELLIGENCE Average 0 SENSORY Average 0 TELEPATH ESP TELEKINESIS Telekinetic - Class 4 200 COMBAT A COMBAT A COMBAT A COMBAT A COMBAT A COMBAT A COMBAT A COMBAT A COMBAT A COMBAT A COMBAT B COMBAT B COMBAT B COMBAT B COMBAT B COMBAT C SPECIAL Radiation Tolerant 270 +1 +4 +2 +2 +1 +2 SPECIAL Low Temp Resistant 320 +2 +4 +2 +2 +1 +2 SPECIAL Gravity Very High 380 +2 +5 +2 +2 +2 +2 SPECIAL Chemical Excahnger 546 +4 +4 +2 +3 +2 +2 SPECIAL Long Life Cycle 250 +1 +2 SPECIAL Linquistic 50 +3 SPECIAL SPECIAL SPECIAL SPECIAL 1,385 +5 +4 +1 +22 +22 +8 +10 +7 +9 Pts Size App RB CB SB SCB GCB CCB DB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Miles Avatar Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 no they cant. If 100 of your tiny decrepit clumsy troops manage to land on an enemy homeworld they will be squashed like bugs beneath 1 division of a race that has max strength and agility and you would have spent an UNGODLY amount of resources to produce and transport that many, Your better off concentrating on the space battle and leaving the ground fighting to a merc race you can trust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Like Daz said... Give up any hope of being a gorund combat anything if you take all the size, agility and strength penalties. You could be great at colonization though. Having completed this little exercise several times I would recomend keeping your nagatives to a minimum. They just aren't worth it in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athonian Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 make sure the intelligence and colonization bonus is as high as possible. that's all i can say. long life, phenominal intel/senses, high reproductive, omnivore plus (cheaper than limited photo), etc. i wouldn't waste too much time with constitution. those points would be better off in intel. and get rid of the prehensile it isn't worth 19 possible srps. 3 light tails are free and make your race look prettier. ummm.... yeah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prospective Posted October 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 So, essentially I'm getting negative vibes on this design. Of course, this begs the question, what about 'racial improvements" that can come about with improved genetics and medical science? Can't these early penalties be overcome eventually? Also, how many people have actually had ground combat experience to date? Has anyone had the opportunity to test the theories? Does anyone know for a fact what the GCB, CCB and DB's will do to a real battle? Is it speculation at this point? I don't mean to doubt anyone, but practical experience makes up for alot of theories. Thanks all, I do appreciate the input. So far, you have my bud questioning this design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athonian Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 here's my analysis CATEGORY SELECTION PTS SIZE APP RB CB SB SCB GCB CCB DB LIFEFORM Winged Mammal (120) +4 +2 -4 SHAPE Humanoid 0 SIZE Tiny (480) INGESTION Photosynthesis Ltd 250 +3 REPRODUCTION Superior 400 +5 HEAD ARMS TAIL Single Tail - Prehensile 19 +1 +2 +1 +1 +1 BODY ARMOR STRENGTH Decrepit (480) AGILITY Clumsy (560) CONSTITUTION Superior 340 +3 +2 +4 INTELLIGENCE Average 0 SENSORY Average 0 TELEPATH ESP TELEKINESIS Telekinetic - Class 4 200 COMBAT A COMBAT A COMBAT A COMBAT A COMBAT A COMBAT A COMBAT A COMBAT A COMBAT A COMBAT A COMBAT B COMBAT B COMBAT B COMBAT B COMBAT B COMBAT C SPECIAL Radiation Tolerant 270 +1 +4 +2 +2 +1 +2 SPECIAL Low Temp Resistant 320 +2 +4 +2 +2 +1 +2 SPECIAL Gravity Very High 380 +2 +5 +2 +2 +2 +2 SPECIAL Chemical Excahnger 546 +4 +4 +2 +3 +2 +2 SPECIAL Long Life Cycle 250 +1 +2 SPECIAL Linquistic 50 +3 SPECIAL SPECIAL SPECIAL SPECIAL 1,385 +5 +4 +1 +22 +22 +8 +10 +7 +9 Pts Size App RB CB SB SCB GCB CCB DB lifeform is fine size... eh i would stick with regular size clumsy weak and tiny soldiers will get wasted by any army that it comes into contact with. ingestion and reproduction are all really fine... but i'd change it to omnivore plus... intelligence and sensory should be maxed out. intelligence can be dropped a little but full sensory is a must. (for faster research. it'd be impossible to research genetic improvements if your race takes forever to research something) psychic powers are more for wmd's and warfare. they'll help a great deal in one sense but they are expensive you may be jsut right by sticking to just a c4 in one. i would forget about all the grav/temp bonuses and liguistics. all in all great colonizers...but really weak everything else. a race with the same teching as this race would probably be even in regards to space combat but would destroy all ground forces they came across. a surpise attack would wreck any colony founded. my conclusion is that they need more intelligence and sensory, less specific colonization bonuses like low temp, high grav etc. keep long life, get rid of linguistics, consider boosting the size, strengh, and agility of this race and try to keep at least 200 or so srps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughestrog Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 So, essentially I'm getting negative vibes on this design. Of course, this begs the question, what about 'racial improvements" that can come about with improved genetics and medical science? Can't these early penalties be overcome eventually? Also, how many people have actually had ground combat experience to date? Has anyone had the opportunity to test the theories? Does anyone know for a fact what the GCB, CCB and DB's will do to a real battle? Is it speculation at this point? I don't mean to doubt anyone, but practical experience makes up for alot of theories. Thanks all, I do appreciate the input. So far, you have my bud questioning this design. Apparently (I'm not speaking from experience) there are players who indulged in ground combat (not sure against real players or dropped positions though). The penalties should be overcome, eventually, with genetic engineering (or what ever), but this would take up a lot of research that could be used to develop better industry, weapons, ship components, etc. And it would bring you equal, eventually, whereas other races would have developed more. My species has both linguistic ability and a prehensile tail. Icould have saved 69 SRP towards further research, but I chose them to go with the flavor of my species. It's up to you, and I dare say there's a lot of pro's and con's, but you can't have your cake and eat it. Whatever your friend decides, it is best to save some SRP for tech advances though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan Elder 'Keen Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 If you are going to plan to recover from an initial lifeform penalty with species engineering, I would recommend having only a single area of deficit, and that the point totals are less than 375 (the amount you get from 1st and 2nd Gen Species Engineering). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 Remember that no race can be the *best* in all areas. If your friend wants a race of "brains in a jar" and be a researching monster, they will probably be lousy in combat or colonizing or both. In the area of Mental Powers, they don't cost much, but then again, they don't get you a whole lot either. FWIW - You could buy 2 Levels of Mental Powers with 1st Gen Species Engineering (125 points). Overall, I would say that fewer disadvantages is a better way to go then a bunch of them and the biggest "Rule" in Life Form Design is build what makes you happy. -SK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted October 4, 2004 Report Share Posted October 4, 2004 The initial question was if the given lifeform would be ok in ground combat. The answer is a very loud NO... That does not mean that the lifeform is a bad one it just has a place and ground combat is not it. There are as many good ideas as there are players so no idea is bad to somebody. For specific examples here is what your get. When conducting ground combat your forces are compared to your enemy and you get a rating. If you are pathetic then your rating will be something like0.12 or worse while a beefy large lifeform may get a rating of 3.7. What this means is that it takes 7 whimpy units to equal a 1 rated unit and about 30 to equal a buff guy. In a battle you each lose some guys except the whimpy side loses 30 times as many. If you start out completely normal you can likely do quite well for yourself with tech but if you start whimpy you may never make it back to normal. Being whimpy it will also be a waste of all that research bonus to try and reserch all of that ground combat stuff just to be normal in the end. It is entirely possible to get by without good ground combat capabilities. If you can prevent somebody from landing then you won't need them. There is also the option of finding some true friends to garrison your worlds for you. This is not without it's own drawbacks though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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