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Screen Destruction Experiment #1


WKE235
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Situation: NSI appears to have dropped. A fleet consisting of 59 screening vessels and 11 Capital ships is sitting at a known WP.

 

Goal: To send in a force that will eliminate the screen and at least perhaps damage or destroy some capital ships, while using minimal resources (tonnage)

 

Structure: Design a Carrier and equip it with sufficent systems to create a high fire control, such that it can destroy the screen. Add a series of small screening vessels to the Carrier group, to give it lasting power so damage (or destruction) can be inflicted on the Capital ships as well.

 

Resulting Group: Uller class Carrier, Fire Control rating of 14, 1500 Strike fighters, along with 19 screening vessels. Formation defined so Carrier is in Deploy location 12 to minimize damage when fired on, and make it last item to be fired at. Extensive use of Selenite Battle Weave to give high integrity also in place to increase staying power. Assumption is fighters will wear down enemy fleet given enough time, so the longer we last the better.

 

Battle Results: Ouch

 

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Alien Fleet Sighting : Ebenezer Warp Point # 45174 [warp move by empire # 3833]

[stellar cartography reports that Warp Point # 45174 has not yet been surveyed by your scouts]

NSI Napatha Solarum Imperium # 3535 'Ebon Field; Crimson Gauntlet Seizes Argent Galaxy'

Optic Terminus Formation [Yankee]

5 CL Pup E (Light Cruiser - 200,000 tons)

1 SCA Mutt (Strike Cruiser - 725,000 tons)

59 CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons)

5 CA Pooch (Heavy Cruiser - 500,000 tons)

================================================================================

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------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

** NAVAL BATTLE REPORT **

----- EBENEZER [ K (Orange) 9 V ] [single Star] - Warp Point 45174 -----

Napatha Solarum Imperium #3535 Total tonnage: 4,284,000 Base Fire Control: 1 [945,000 bridge]

Concordium #3833 Total tonnage: 1,663,700 Base Fire Control: 13 [22,545,000 bridge]

** Imperial Navy Report: Fleet Order of Battle **

Napatha Solarum Imperium # 3535 [Ebon Field; Crimson Gauntlet Seizes Argent Galaxy]

Optic Terminus Formation [ROE: Y] *Kennel* (Fleet Tonnage: 4,284,000)

Fleet Admiral Pephredo Brencis Uiseann

--------------------[Deploy Location 1] 59 CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons [each])-----------------------------------

Fire Control: Minimal .. Maneuverability: Clumsy .. Sensors: Blind .. Shields: None .. Structural Integrity: Average

3,540 Laser CIDS

--------------------[Deploy Location 1] 1 SCA Mutt (Strike Cruiser - 725,000 tons [each])-------------------------------

Fire Control: Fair .. Maneuverability: Lumbering .. Sensors: Oblivious .. Shields: Feeble .. Structural Integrity: Durable

2,386 2.5cm Needler (Projectile) .... 974 4cm Gatling CIDS .... 25,000 Ablative Armor Coating .... 10,000 Laser CIDS .... 9

Light Sonic Disintegrator (Sonic) .... 112 Light Stun Beam (Sonic) .... 500 Light Thermal Lance .... 500 Mk I Force Shield

.... 8 Mk I Lightning Arc Generator (Energy Discharge) .... 40 Mk I Plasma Pulse CIDS .... 74 Mk II Interceptor Missile

(Missile) .... 9 Mk II Long Lance Torpedo (Missile) .... 200,000 Selenite Battle Weave .... 9,000 Standard Hull Plate .... 1

Type A Energy Web Projector (Energy Absorber)

--------------------[Deploy Location 2] 5 CA Pooch (Heavy Cruiser - 500,000 tons [each])--------------------------------

Fire Control: Superior .. Maneuverability: Lumbering .. Sensors: Oblivious .. Shields: Feeble .. Structural Integrity:

Durable

1,000 20cm Gauss Gun (Projectile) .... 250,000 Ablative Armor Coating .... 375 Heavy Beam Laser (Coherent Beam) .... 25,000

Laser CIDS .... 500 Light P-Cannon .... 500 Mk I Deflector .... 1,500 Mk II Force Shield .... 500,000 Selenite Battle Weave

--------------------[Deploy Location 2] 5 CL Pup E (Light Cruiser - 200,000 tons [each])--------------------------------

Fire Control: Minimal .. Maneuverability: Lumbering .. Sensors: Blind .. Shields: None .. Structural Integrity: Sturdy

525 10cm Autocannon (Projectile) .... 1,500 Light Beam Laser (Coherent Beam) .... 525 Light Thermal Lance .... 100,000

Reflective Armor Coating .... 325,000 Standard Hull Plate .... 15 Type A Defense Screen

** Imperial Navy Report: Fleet Order of Battle **

Concordium # 3833 [A Three-Dimensional Representation Of A Tesseract With The Symbol For Infinity Glowing In The Central

Cube]

970th Carrier Force [ROE: W] *Total Defense* (Fleet Tonnage: 1,663,700)

Cargo Bays: ... 1,200 Fighter Bays: ... 15 ... 1,500 Strike Fighter

--------------------[Deploy Location 1] 6 TR Gnat (Trader - 1,000 tons [each])------------------------------------------

Fire Control: Phenomenal .. Maneuverability: Moderate .. Sensors: Perceptive .. Shields: None .. Structural Integrity:

Average

--------------------[Deploy Location 8] 13 CO Wasp (Corvette - 3,900 tons [each])---------------------------------------

Fire Control: Phenomenal .. Maneuverability: Moderate .. Sensors: Average .. Shields: Feeble .. Structural Integrity: Sturdy

65 20cm Autocannon (Projectile) .... 130 Laser CIDS .... 52 Mk I Force Shield .... 5,200 Titanium Composite Armor

--------------------[Deploy Location 12] 1 AUXF Uller (Fleet Auxiliary - 1,607,000 tons [each])-------------------------

Fire Control: Phenomenal .. Maneuverability: Fleet .. Sensors: Oblivious .. Shields: Energized .. Structural Integrity:

Durable

15 Fighter Bay .... 2,000 Mk II Force Shield .... 500,000 Selenite Battle Weave

** Imperial Navy Report: Fleet Order of Battle **

-------------------------------------------------- DepLoc 1 ------------------------------------------------------------

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

200 Fuel Tankage, 60 Laser CIDS, 1 Mk I Nuclear Engine, 1 Mk I Nuclear Jump Drive

Maneuverability: 0.300, Point Defense: 3.040

**MEDIUM DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**MINOR DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**MINOR DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**MINOR DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**MINOR DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**MINOR DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**MINOR DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**MINOR DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**MINOR DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**MINOR DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**MINOR DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**MINOR DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**MINOR DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**MINOR DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**MINOR DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**MINOR DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**MINOR DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**MINOR DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**MINOR DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**MEDIUM DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**MINOR DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**MINOR DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**MINOR DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

SCA Mutt (Strike Cruiser - 725,000 tons) [integrity: 4,717,500] [shields: 150,000] (Green, Timid)

2,386 2.5cm Needler, 974 4cm Gatling CIDS, 25,000 Ablative Armor Coating, 5 Battle Imaging System

11 Fuel Shuttle, 25,500 Fuel Tankage, 10,000 Laser CIDS, 518 Light Magnetic Grapple, 9 Light Sonic Disintegrator

112 Light Stun Beam, 500 Light Thermal Lance, 13 Medium Magnetic Grapple, 500 Mk I Force Shield

8 Mk I Lightning Arc Generator, 1 Mk I Nuclear Engine, 1 Mk I Nuclear Jump Drive, 40 Mk I Plasma Pulse CIDS

10 Mk II Computer System, 74 Mk II Interceptor Missile, 9 Mk II Long Lance Torpedo, 55 Mk II Short Range Sensor

200,000 Selenite Battle Weave, 9,000 Standard Hull Plate, 1 Type A Energy Web Projector

EnergyAbsorber: 11,000, Energy Discharge: 8,800, Gravitonic: 184,800, Missile: 54,800, Plasma: 132,000

Projectile: 104,984, Sonic: 67,760

Point Defense: 0.812, Reflective Coating: 0.344, Sensors: 0.037

**DESTROYED** [1st] CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**DESTROYED** [2nd] CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**DESTROYED** [3rd] CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**DESTROYED** [4th] CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**DESTROYED** [5th] CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**DESTROYED** [6th] CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**DESTROYED** [7th] CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**DESTROYED** [8th] CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**DESTROYED** [9th] CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**DESTROYED** [10th] CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**DESTROYED** [11st] CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**DESTROYED** [12nd] CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**DESTROYED** [13rd] CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

**DESTROYED** [14th] CO Dog Meat (Corvette - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 800] (Green, Timid)

CA Pooch (Heavy Cruiser - 500,000 tons) [integrity: 2,490,700] [shields: 210,000] (Green, Timid)

200 20cm Gauss Gun, 50,000 Ablative Armor Coating, 10 Battle Imaging System, 9,300 Fuel Tankage

75 Heavy Beam Laser, 5,000 Laser CIDS, 100 Light P-Cannon, 100 Mk I Deflector, 25 Mk I Medium Range Sensor

1 Mk I Nuclear Engine, 1 Mk I Nuclear Jump Drive, 20 Mk II Computer System, 300 Mk II Force Shield

25 Mk II Short Range Sensor, 100,000 Selenite Battle Weave

Coherent Beam: 495,000, Plasma: 110,000, Projectile: 352,000

Deflectors: 0.100, Point Defense: 0.500, Reflective Coating: 1.000, Sensors: 0.050

CA Pooch (Heavy Cruiser - 500,000 tons) [integrity: 2,490,700] [shields: 210,000] (Green, Timid)

CA Pooch (Heavy Cruiser - 500,000 tons) [integrity: 2,490,700] [shields: 210,000] (Green, Timid)

CA Pooch (Heavy Cruiser - 500,000 tons) [integrity: 2,490,700] [shields: 210,000] (Green, Timid)

CA Pooch (Heavy Cruiser - 500,000 tons) [integrity: 2,490,700] [shields: 210,000] (Green, Timid)

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CL Pup E (Light Cruiser - 200,000 tons) [integrity: 315,000] (Line, Reliable)

105 10cm Autocannon, 5 Fuel Shuttle, 15,000 Fuel Tankage, 300 Light Beam Laser, 105 Light Thermal Lance

2 Mk I Computer System, 1 Mk I Nuclear Engine, 1 Mk I Nuclear Jump Drive, 21 Mk I Short Range Sensor

20,000 Reflective Armor Coating, 65,000 Standard Hull Plate, 3 Type A Defense Screen

Coherent Beam: 66,000, Plasma: 27,720, Projectile: 11,550

Maneuverability: 0.001, Reflective Coating: 0.500, Screens: 0.075, Sensors: 0.026

**MINOR DAMAGE** CL Pup E (Light Cruiser - 200,000 tons) [integrity: 315,000] (Line, Reliable)

**LIGHT DAMAGE** CL Pup E (Light Cruiser - 200,000 tons) [integrity: 315,000] (Line, Reliable)

**MINOR DAMAGE** CL Pup E (Light Cruiser - 200,000 tons) [integrity: 315,000] (Line, Reliable)

**MINOR DAMAGE** CL Pup E (Light Cruiser - 200,000 tons) [integrity: 315,000] (Line, Reliable)

** Imperial Navy Report: Fleet Order of Battle **

-------------------------------------------------- DepLoc 8 ------------------------------------------------------------

**DESTROYED** [15th] CO Wasp (Corvette - 3,900 tons) [integrity: 6,000] [shields: 1,200] (Green, Reliable)

5 20cm Autocannon, 700 Fuel Tankage, 10 Laser CIDS, 3 Mk I Computer System, 4 Mk I Force Shield

2 Mk I Medium Range Sensor, 1 Mk I Nuclear Jump Drive, 7 Mk II Nuclear Engine, 400 Titanium Composite Armor

Projectile: 2,200

Maneuverability: 0.897, Point Defense: 77.574, Sensors: 0.256

**DESTROYED** [16th] CO Wasp (Corvette - 3,900 tons) [integrity: 6,000] [shields: 1,200] (Green, Reliable)

**DESTROYED** [17th] CO Wasp (Corvette - 3,900 tons) [integrity: 6,000] [shields: 1,200] (Green, Reliable)

**DESTROYED** [18th] CO Wasp (Corvette - 3,900 tons) [integrity: 6,000] [shields: 1,200] (Green, Reliable)

**DESTROYED** [19th] CO Wasp (Corvette - 3,900 tons) [integrity: 6,000] [shields: 1,200] (Green, Reliable)

**DESTROYED** [20th] CO Wasp (Corvette - 3,900 tons) [integrity: 6,000] [shields: 1,200] (Green, Reliable)

**DESTROYED** [21st] CO Wasp (Corvette - 3,900 tons) [integrity: 6,000] [shields: 1,200] (Green, Reliable)

**DESTROYED** [22nd] CO Wasp (Corvette - 3,900 tons) [integrity: 6,000] [shields: 1,200] (Green, Reliable)

**DESTROYED** [23rd] CO Wasp (Corvette - 3,900 tons) [integrity: 6,000] [shields: 1,200] (Green, Reliable)

**DESTROYED** [24th] CO Wasp (Corvette - 3,900 tons) [integrity: 6,000] [shields: 1,200] (Green, Reliable)

**DESTROYED** [25th] CO Wasp (Corvette - 3,900 tons) [integrity: 6,000] [shields: 1,200] (Green, Reliable)

**DESTROYED** [26th] CO Wasp (Corvette - 3,900 tons) [integrity: 6,000] [shields: 1,200] (Green, Reliable)

**DESTROYED** [27th] CO Wasp (Corvette - 3,900 tons) [integrity: 6,000] [shields: 1,200] (Green, Reliable)

**DESTROYED** [28th] TR Gnat (Trader - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 600] (Green, Reliable)

200 Cargo Bay, 200 Fuel Tankage, 1 Mk I Computer System, 1 Mk I Medium Range Sensor, 1 Mk I Nuclear Jump Drive

1 Mk I Space Mine Scanner, 2 Mk II Nuclear Engine

Maneuverability: 1.000, Point Defense: 300.000, Sensors: 1.000

**DESTROYED** [29th] TR Gnat (Trader - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 600] (Green, Reliable)

**DESTROYED** [30th] TR Gnat (Trader - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 600] (Green, Reliable)

**DESTROYED** [31st] TR Gnat (Trader - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 600] (Green, Reliable)

**DESTROYED** [32nd] TR Gnat (Trader - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 600] (Green, Reliable)

**DESTROYED** [33rd] TR Gnat (Trader - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 600] (Green, Reliable)

**DESTROYED** [34th] AUXF Uller (Fleet Auxiliary - 1,607,000 tons) [integrity: 11,372,600] [shields: 1,400,000] (Green,Timid)

2,500 Battle Imaging System, 15 Fighter Bay, 150,000 Fuel Tankage, 100 Mk I Long Range Sensor

2,000 Mk II Force Shield, 3,220 Mk II Fusion Engine, 1 Nuclear Transwarp Drive, 500,000 Selenite Battle Weave

Maneuverability: 4.007, Point Defense: 0.188, Sensors: 0.062

================================================================================

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Analysis of Battle results:

 

(1) Design failed to take into account impact of Admiral in NSI fleet. Higher fire control of NSI fleet allowed rapid elimination of screen, so Carrier could be fired on.

 

Potential Solution to design failure: Screening ships all had small warp bubbles. D class WP with size of 25 meant screen appeared in system in three waves, then the carrier, with each wave virtually annihilated as it appeared. Larger screening ships would have drawn appearance into system out over many rounds, resulting in only 1 or 2 screens appearing per round.

 

(2) Design underestimated impact of Laser CIDS. Laser are rated only Fair. But in this case, since they weigh in at only 10 tons each, the NSI had 38,540 Laser CIDS. The 1500 Strike fighters, equipped with pulse engine advances, appear to have been nearly wiped out after one round (14 kills, matching the fire control, then after that ... lots of medium, light, and minor damage on 800 integrity ships!)

 

Potential Solution: Any solution will require a review of assumptions on workings of Laser CIDS (and other CIDS). This needs to be reexamined to determine how they work at a fleet level. Based on battle results of Vindicator Fleet versus NSI in Diocles where over 50% of drones / fighters survived the a long battle, assumption that losses in this battle would be low enough to allow destruction of the screen were way off. Each ship is displayed with a point defense rating. But we have no idea what the number means. Need further information on how Laser CIDS work as a fleet rating.

 

(3) Design may have overestimated the firepower of strike fighters. Considering every remaining screen ship was damaged, fighters did exist for at least 4 rounds of fighting. If they could only destroy 14 screens, and then only minimal damage after that, what went wrong.

 

Possibility A: Lets say loss of fighters due to Lasers Cids was linear in fashion (like 450 per round). More rapid would mean many screens would never be hit. In such a case, the fact that more screens were not destroyed in a second round would indicate strike fighters have very limited firepower.

 

Possibility B: On the other hand, it could be strike fighters were destroyed in a non-linear fashion. Using 80% being destroyed each round as an example, that would be 1500 round 1, 300 left round 2, 60 left round 3, and 12 fighter on round 4. Still, at 300 fighters left round 2 in this example, or 21 fighters attacking each screen ship in round 2 .. the fighters strength would still have to be very limited.

 

Solution: Once more, we need more information to make a reasonabl guess. The damage ability of fighters, drones is still the only weapon whose strength / power is not displayed on turn results. So all we can do is guess as to the abilities of these weapons.

 

 

Conclusion: Experimental results show a clear lack of understanding of some aspects of game mechanics around the topics of fighters, drones, and CIDS. Further experiments are warrented.

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Guest Clan Elder Warcry

Also note that Dog Meat corvette is 60% CIDS and has point defense value of 3.040. Killing fighters outright would most likely require pure numbers of CIDS weapons but point defense value would reduce damage taken by individual units from fighters reducing losses and prolonging fight. IMO and based on existing Naval Combat PDF (Defensive systems entry) ------------Clan Elder Warcry

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Thanks for the analysis WKE. I had a couple of thoughts after reading it.

 

1. I expect that fighter losses are linear but are also dependent on the number of ships with CIDS remaining at the end of a round so the more efficiently your fighters reduce those ships the longer they last.

 

2. I assume that the battle ends when all ships in one fleet are destroyed. Is this a correct assumption or is it when all opposing forces including drones and fighters are gone? If the first assumption is true then adding more fighters and making the waves of screens take longer to enter the battle should increase your chances of success.

 

3. If NSI has dropped as you expect than you should also expect to prevail in the end since you can learn from each battle and you can attrit his forces.

 

Good luck :)

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1. I expect that fighter losses are linear but are also dependent on the number of ships with CIDS remaining at the end of a round so the more efficiently your fighters reduce those ships the longer they last.

 

2. I assume that the battle ends when all ships in one fleet are destroyed. Is this a correct assumption or is it when all opposing forces including drones and fighters are gone? If the first assumption is true then adding more fighters and making the waves of screens take longer to enter the battle should increase your chances of success.

 

Both of your statements are correct. Point defense firepower is recalculated each round. It both kills fighters/drones and mitigates their firepower, so a ship with a lot of point defenses can be hard to kill with such weapons.

 

A battle does indeed end when one side or the other has lost all of its ships. Fighters/drones then cease operation and those without a place to land must ditch (destroyed). This would include all such units on the side with no more ships :)

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1. I expect that fighter losses are linear but are also dependent on the number of ships with CIDS remaining at the end of a round so the more efficiently your fighters reduce those ships the longer they last.

 

2. I assume that the battle ends when all ships in one fleet are destroyed. Is this a correct assumption or is it when all opposing forces including drones and fighters are gone? If the first assumption is true then adding more fighters and making the waves of screens take longer to enter the battle should increase your chances of success.

 

Both of your statements are correct. Point defense firepower is recalculated each round. It both kills fighters/drones and mitigates their firepower, so a ship with a lot of point defenses can be hard to kill with such weapons.

 

A battle does indeed end when one side or the other has lost all of its ships. Fighters/drones then cease operation and those without a place to land must ditch (destroyed). This would include all such units on the side with no more ships :)

 

So how in the heck does point defense work? For example, my Gnat trader, a 1000 ton ship with NO CIDS, displayed a 300.0 Point defense. The Wasps, 3000 ton ships with 10 Laser CIDS, displayed a 77.5 Point defense, and the Uller (1.6 Millon tons, no CIDS) displayed 0.188 Point defense. So having CIDS on a ship is not the primary factor for point defense. It appears as some type of fleet point defense power value was used, as dividing around 300,000 by ships tonnage gets to these (or close to these) numbers.

 

But then I do the calcs for the NSI fleet. 38,000+ Laser Cids. 1000 ton screening ships with 60 CIDS each (6 time the amount of a Wasp). And the net result is a point defense of 3.040. Far smaller than anything on my side.

 

And then I look at a battle from many turns ago involving 2 Wasps on my side and 2 Ork Corvettes on the NSI side. Same wasps, 10 Laser CIDS each .. and the total point defense of 0.125.

 

So the difference here is 1500 Strike Fighrers (of Adequate Point Defense Accuracy). Based on this I could guess Strike Fighers had a PD of around 2 per ton in value, and Laser CIDS are about the same (despite being only fair .. could Fighters be cut in half for PD due to their dual role?). That gets the numbers close, oh so close, to the displayed values (but not the same), at least for my ships. But it does not work on the NSI ships. I am so confused. Please explain just how Point defense is calculated, as I cannot see how it is being done consistently across ships and fleets.

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It comes back to the old question(s)...

 

Please can we know what the defense numerics mean - and, particularly for the Point Defense figures are they shown calculated for just the ship in question and don't actually (which is what they currently show) mean that covering fighters defend each and every ship at the same time......

 

And please can we know what the Fighter and Drone options do?

 

Ken,

 

Would you mind very much letting us know which Fighter Tactic you chose?

 

BTW - it does indeed appear as if all your 'firepower' (all your fighters) vanished after the first round of combat, leaving you with very minimal firepower strength left that then distributed itself across all those targets.....NSI then just picked you off over the next few rounds without serious reply.

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BTW - it does indeed appear as if all your 'firepower' (all your fighters) vanished after the first round of combat, leaving you with very minimal firepower strength left that then distributed itself across all those targets.....NSI then just picked you off over the next few rounds without serious reply.

 

I am not sure how you come to that conclusion. I see a Fire Control of 13 for WKE and 14 destroyed ships and 50 damaged ships for NSI. I am now wondering if the targets are selected each round randomly within the closest DepLoc. If true that would suggest that the fighters lasted a few more rounds.

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[OoC] Knowing the preponderance of CIDS in the enemy fleet, you should design an attack strategy based on direct-fire weapons. Perhaps screening vessels with plasma torps and capital ships with long-range coherent beam or mass driver technologies?

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BTW - it does indeed appear as if all your 'firepower' (all your fighters) vanished after the first round of combat, leaving you with very minimal firepower strength left that then distributed itself across all those targets.....NSI then just picked you off over the next few rounds without serious reply.

 

I am not sure how you come to that conclusion. I see a Fire Control of 13 for WKE and 14 destroyed ships and 50 damaged ships for NSI. I am now wondering if the targets are selected each round randomly within the closest DepLoc. If true that would suggest that the fighters lasted a few more rounds.

 

Definately the fighters lasted many rounds. At 13 fire control, to hit 64 ships, I had to have fighters flying for at least 5 rounds (5 x 13 = 65). And per RTG Pete above, the fighter losses were linear in a fashion (though PD was recalculated for each round which can effect the round to round losses). I did NOT destroy a lot of CIDS. So we might be able to assume the PD was rather consistent. So on round 1, we had 1500 fighters whose fire power is divided into 13 globs ... or effectively 115 fighters per target. The result is destroyed screen vessels.

 

Next round, we can estimate we lost from 300 to 375 fighters. Any more and the fighters would not have laster 5 rounds. Any less, and they would have lasted more rounds. (Well, more is possible -- if the battle only ended once the Carrier was destroyed, it might have gotten drawn out). Since at best one more screen ship was destroyed in rounds 2-5 .. and all the other 800 integrity ships suffered Medium or less damage, we have to conclude that the firepower of Strike Fighters is woefully small. What this is saying is the 1/13 glob of damage from 1100 or so strike fighters is LESS than 800 integrity ... or in other words Strike Fighters do somewhere from 5-10 points of damage per fighter.

 

It would appear fighters are far weaker than we thought.

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BTW - it does indeed appear as if all your 'firepower' (all your fighters) vanished after the first round of combat, leaving you with very minimal firepower strength left that then distributed itself across all those targets.....NSI then just picked you off over the next few rounds without serious reply.

 

I am not sure how you come to that conclusion. I see a Fire Control of 13 for WKE and 14 destroyed ships and 50 damaged ships for NSI. I am now wondering if the targets are selected each round randomly within the closest DepLoc. If true that would suggest that the fighters lasted a few more rounds.

 

Definately the fighters lasted many rounds. At 13 fire control, to hit 64 ships, I had to have fighters flying for at least 5 rounds (5 x 13 = 65). And per RTG Pete above, the fighter losses were linear in a fashion (though PD was recalculated for each round which can effect the round to round losses). I did NOT destroy a lot of CIDS. So we might be able to assume the PD was rather consistent. So on round 1, we had 1500 fighters whose fire power is divided into 13 globs ... or effectively 115 fighters per target. The result is destroyed screen vessels.

 

Next round, we can estimate we lost from 300 to 375 fighters. Any more and the fighters would not have laster 5 rounds. Any less, and they would have lasted more rounds. (Well, more is possible -- if the battle only ended once the Carrier was destroyed, it might have gotten drawn out). Since at best one more screen ship was destroyed in rounds 2-5 .. and all the other 800 integrity ships suffered Medium or less damage, we have to conclude that the firepower of Strike Fighters is woefully small. What this is saying is the 1/13 glob of damage from 1100 or so strike fighters is LESS than 800 integrity ... or in other words Strike Fighters do somewhere from 5-10 points of damage per fighter.

 

It would appear fighters are far weaker than we thought.

 

Our reasoning is this......

 

On 'Round 1' you had the firepower to destroy your 13 targets. Very nearly all your firepower is in the fighters. The only other firepower you have is from the Wasps with their 5 x 20cm Autocannon firing with only 40% effectiveness. After Round 1 you have a seriously reduced firepower that, when spread over 13 targets, causes almost no damage at all. Only 1 additional corvette is destroyed.

 

Strike Fighters are rated Adequate. We've been told that fighters are 'better' than pure missiles on a ton for ton basis (including the fighter bay?), so at the very least each SF should have had an, unaffected by range, missile strength of at least 800 (perhaps only 400 if the fighter bay tonnage isn't taken into account) - in which case even 1 or 2 SFs would have taken out a 800 integrity corvette.

 

The only obvious conclusion is that, after round one, you had less than 25 SFs remaining. In subsequent rounds (only 2), as NSI destroyed 9 ships at a time, your remaining, almost negligible, firepower caused small bits of damage on lots of potential targets.

 

It could have been that your fighter missile strength was reduced by the tactic you used???

 

But whatever the case - we really need to know what those tactics do, how defenses in general and Point Defense in particular works, and what are the missile strengths from fighters and drones...... :angry:

 

Otherwise we haven't a clue and are guessing pretty blindly..... :oops:

 

Chief Warmaster to Ur-Lord Tedric

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Fighters where Standard Operations (so no Kamikazee or Deep Strike or whatever those other formations are).

 

By your reasoning, if there was only 25 SF's left after round 1, and if the SF's had a strength of 800 each as you postulate, then I should have destroyed many more 800 integrity screen ships. The screen ships are in deploy location 1 so distance defensive bonus. 25/13 = 2 fighters per attack in round two, more than enough to destroy a screen ship (at 1600 power). PLUS, if the CIDS destroyed 1475 SF in the first round, they should have destroyed the remainder in round 2. So how could I attack and damage or destroy 64 different ships. That implies I had firepower for at least 5 rounds of battle. With the Wasps gone after 2 rounds (maybe 3) and the fighters after 2, there would be nothing left to inflict damage on the enemy ships (even when divided into 13 globs of damage, 0/13 = 0).

 

If SF's have similar firepower to missles and that is in the 800 range for each 100 ton ship, then how can it be explained that only 13 of the 800 integrity screens were destroyed? For as long as ther was more than 13 fighters fighting, you would expect the damage globs to destroy screens (in this case).

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Some pure conjecture on my part:

 

This battle lasted five rounds:

 

1)

14 NSI Screens destroyed

10 WKE screens destroyed (which also happens to be nearly all the ships with weapons)

all fighters are destroyed except a very small number because of some kind of rounding -- let's say 9 were spared and could not be killed. NSI point defense is brutally effective, but not 100% effective.

 

2)

14 NSI ships take damage

9 WKE screens destroyed (all ships with weapons are destroyed at this point, but that small number of fighters is still around)

 

3)

14 NSI ships take damage

carrier takes a serious hit

 

4)

14 NSI ships take damage

carrier is severely damaged

 

5)

14 NSI ships take damage

carrier is destroyed and remaining fighters ditch

 

You have to have several rounds of combat to explain the number of damaged ships. It is also clear that either fighters don't do as much damage as some have estimated, or CIDS are far more effective than imagined.

 

I personally am going for the latter. We have every reason to believe that specialized defenses are really, really good against their targeted weapon systems. A fair CIDS system in huge numbers (I mean, 38,000 Laser CIDS?! - bravo to NSI for dedicating that sort of production to CIDS defense, he clearly understood the offensive that was on its way) should be able to take out an adequate fighter force in fairly small numbers. (There were about 25 CIDS gunners for every fighter... "them ain't good odds, Maverick", as they say in my Top Gun School.)

 

Bombers would have fared much better. :angry:

 

A combined arms force would have been better, and one, as another member pointed out, that did not rely on F&D or M&T (unless those F&D or M&T are fourth gen. or better).

 

I would be perfectly happy to base some fleet designs on what I think happened in this battle; I find it relatively clear - though I could be wrong on my conjectures...I'd still be fine to build fleets based on the limited info we have; however, the main reason I think we need the combat supplement is that if it weren't for the willingness of WKE to share this information (thanks, WKE) a great many of us wouldn't have much of an idea what combat even looked like, let alone what strategies are effective. So, still waiting for more guidance.

 

-LX

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