rotor911 Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Does somebody know what medium and long range sensors "see" that short range ones don't? Can they see enemy ships in the whole system rather than in their current location? Objects that you wouldn't see otherwise? Thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Uriel Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Does somebody know what medium and long range sensors "see" that short range ones don't? Can they see enemy ships in the whole system rather than in their current location? Objects that you wouldn't see otherwise? Thx <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's a good question. Over the years it has been revealed that sensors can assist in exploration and in combat. However, it has never been clearly explained. Additionally, short of an enemy ship with cloaking technology (bearing in mind cloaking isn't working the way it's supposed to be according to those who have it) you will see other ships when you scan for them or when you are at the same location. some of the others (Hobknob, Ur-Lord, Locklyn, ShadowKitsume or Eternus) may be able to explain this better. Lord Uriel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-t-akua Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Does somebody know what medium and long range sensors "see" that short range ones don't? Can they see enemy ships in the whole system rather than in their current location? Objects that you wouldn't see otherwise? Thx <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There does seem to be some effect in combat as there is a sensor status on the battle report. However it is not clear what impact this has on the actual battle. Alos, if you read the descriptions, sensors apparently help defend against mines but there are also specific sensors that address mines so Lord Uriel is correct in stating that their purpose has never been fully explained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Does somebody know what medium and long range sensors "see" that short range ones don't? Can they see enemy ships in the whole system rather than in their current location? Objects that you wouldn't see otherwise? Thx <{POST_SNAPBACK}> To date, Short/Medium/Long Range Sensors - in and of themselves - are just the defensive counterpart to Mines. Medium and Long are just better than the Short Range versions. The big plus to the researching them all is that they open up other branches of technology. -SK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotor911 Posted January 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Thanks but what excited my curiosity is that the long range sensors ANZ does not contain the " Sensor Strength: xxxxxx/Counters: Minefields" lines as the others sensors. Is it a bug or are they really useless? Problem is that, even if these sensors allow (for instance) to "sense" all a system, there's no way to test it as long as you haven't met another empire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Thanks but what excited my curiosity is that the long range sensors ANZ does not contain the " Sensor Strength: xxxxxx/Counters: Minefields" lines as the others sensors. Is it a bug or are they really useless? Problem is that, even if these sensors allow (for instance) to "sense" all a system, there's no way to test it as long as you haven't met another empire. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think that's a bug rather than anything else. I'd e-mail Pete. -SK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Sensors are anit-mine stuff and that is about it. There are a few that are suppose to help find cloaked or otherwise hidden ships but they are pretty specific about it in the description. It seems reasonable that long range sensors would see more, but that is not the case. Most folks go for long range sensors to get to what is beyond them as has been mentioned by others. I have found that ANZ's that seem to be missing something as compared to similar techs are really just missing some text. I have made several bad assumptions when I thought that there was a difference. In every case, Pete has clarified my mistaken assumptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-t-akua Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 What I have not figured out in regards to sensors is how SR, MR and LR sensors defend against mines versus how Mk x Space Mine Scanners do? Are they worse or the same? Only the Oracle knows. I hope he lets us in on it some day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Miles Avatar Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Sensors are anit-mine stuff and that is about it. There are a few that are suppose to help find cloaked or otherwise hidden ships but they are pretty specific about it in the description. It seems reasonable that long range sensors would see more, but that is not the case. Most folks go for long range sensors to get to what is beyond them as has been mentioned by others. I have found that ANZ's that seem to be missing something as compared to similar techs are really just missing some text. I have made several bad assumptions when I thought that there was a difference. In every case, Pete has clarified my mistaken assumptions. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mk I Short Range Sensor: The Mk I Short Range Sensor is a first generation naval sensor system. It is a self-contained, multi-purpose unit capable of handling all routine navigational duties as well as serving as the primary target acquisition and fire control sensor system during combat. Accordingly, the system has a 360 ° field of vision and is equipped with the latest in sensor technology. (100 tons) 100 Transaluminum - 400 Electronics Everyone starts with this system and I can see where there is much confusion. this description seems to indicate that this system is multipurpose and that one of its purposes is to serve as the PRIMARY target acquisition and fire control sensor during combat. further analysis via ANZ seems to indicate that this system is used to counter mines but it still has a 'sensor strenght'. This begs the question ... are these types of sensors required when other sensor types like Mass Dectector Sensor or Gravitonic Sensor Web or Fleet Patrol Sensor etc etc are researched? Probably doesnt matter much so long as the system you have has a 'sensor strenght' which probably modifies some combat variable associated with... you guessed it sensors!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locklyn Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 Sensors are anit-mine stuff and that is about it. There are a few that are suppose to help find cloaked or otherwise hidden ships but they are pretty specific about it in the description. It seems reasonable that long range sensors would see more, but that is not the case. Most folks go for long range sensors to get to what is beyond them as has been mentioned by others. I have found that ANZ's that seem to be missing something as compared to similar techs are really just missing some text. I have made several bad assumptions when I thought that there was a difference. In every case, Pete has clarified my mistaken assumptions. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mk I Short Range Sensor: The Mk I Short Range Sensor is a first generation naval sensor system. It is a self-contained, multi-purpose unit capable of handling all routine navigational duties as well as serving as the primary target acquisition and fire control sensor system during combat. Accordingly, the system has a 360 ° field of vision and is equipped with the latest in sensor technology. (100 tons) 100 Transaluminum - 400 Electronics Everyone starts with this system and I can see where there is much confusion. this description seems to indicate that this system is multipurpose and that one of its purposes is to serve as the PRIMARY target acquisition and fire control sensor during combat. further analysis via ANZ seems to indicate that this system is used to counter mines but it still has a 'sensor strenght'. This begs the question ... are these types of sensors required when other sensor types like Mass Dectector Sensor or Gravitonic Sensor Web or Fleet Patrol Sensor etc etc are researched? Probably doesnt matter much so long as the system you have has a 'sensor strenght' which probably modifies some combat variable associated with... you guessed it sensors!!!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I remember back on the old old boards when the game was starting and we asked how ship detection worked vis a vis Sensors...since it was discovered that a ship that basically was a fuel tank with engines could detect a ship as efficiently as one with Sensors bristling all over it, and since even cloaked ships have been detected by fuel tankers...we're still waiting for an answer from Pete on this one... Cheers /Locklyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 After piecing together many emails and disparate conversations with players and GM's alike, I get the the following. I think it is close. Systems like FPS-fleet patrol sensors and Mass detector sensors are primarily for spotting ships that are trying to be cloaked or something else. Their primary function is not to detect mines, so they would not be as efficient as plain old sensors. However, as they get better and better tech wise, that portion that is used to detect mines may actually wind up being superior to your plain old Short Range Sensors if you don't continue to upgrade them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotor911 Posted January 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 I beg to differ for Mass detector sensors. They're extremely useful defensive systems since they defend both against gravitonics and mines. If they really help spotting cloaked ships too, they give incredible value for the money ANZ: Mk I Mass Detector SensorMk I Mass Detector Sensor: Mass Detectors are extremely useful sensor systems that perform a dual purpose mission. The detection of enemy starships is of paramount importance, and it is very difficult for them to hide their very mass from the prying eyes of a MDS. Additionally, enemy weapons systems that rely upon Gravitonic effects can be countered somewhat should their mass-distorting properties be detected early enough. Mass Detector Sensors are more sensors than defensive systems, but they do come in handy for both purposes. (1,000 tons) 4,000 Improved Electronics - 1,000 Improved Transaluminum Classification: Sensor Structural Integrity: 1000 Prerequisite Technologies: Mk I Long Range Sensor, 2nd Generation Space Science Displacement Blink Speed: Good Counters: Gravitonics Sensor Strength: Good Counters: Minefields Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur Lord Tedric Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 There were stats seen in the Naval Combat Reports and sufficient information has been seen to encourage the following understanding: All those sensors that are dual-use (Short, Medium, Long, SLY, FPS, Mass, Gravitic) give a defensive benefit as well as the 'sensor' benefit we imply from the ANZ description - which is basically a 'chance' to see something that's trying not to be seen. However, they are half as 'powerful' in the defensive realm as the dedicated Space Mine Scanner defence and, we assume, the other specific defenses (like gravitonic). Chief Scientist to Ur-Lord Tedric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octus Imperium Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 I beg to differ for Mass detector sensors. They're extremely useful defensive systems since they defend both against gravitonics and mines. If they really help spotting cloaked ships too, they give incredible value for the money ANZ: Mk I Mass Detector SensorMk I Mass Detector Sensor: Mass Detectors are extremely useful sensor systems that perform a dual purpose mission. The detection of enemy starships is of paramount importance, and it is very difficult for them to hide their very mass from the prying eyes of a MDS. Additionally, enemy weapons systems that rely upon Gravitonic effects can be countered somewhat should their mass-distorting properties be detected early enough. Mass Detector Sensors are more sensors than defensive systems, but they do come in handy for both purposes. (1,000 tons) 4,000 Improved Electronics - 1,000 Improved Transaluminum Classification: Sensor Structural Integrity: 1000 Prerequisite Technologies: Mk I Long Range Sensor, 2nd Generation Space Science Displacement Blink Speed: Good Counters: Gravitonics Sensor Strength: Good Counters: Minefields <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Which raises another interesting question. Why research gravatonic weapons as one's main battle weapon? They seem easily countered by other techs that seem mandatory for other reasons (as above). I know, there may be enticing branchs of the grav tree, but for a weapons system alone? (Guess I just highjacked this thread.....) Octus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Miles Avatar Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 I beg to differ for Mass detector sensors. They're extremely useful defensive systems since they defend both against gravitonics and mines. If they really help spotting cloaked ships too, they give incredible value for the money ANZ: Mk I Mass Detector SensorMk I Mass Detector Sensor: Mass Detectors are extremely useful sensor systems that perform a dual purpose mission. The detection of enemy starships is of paramount importance, and it is very difficult for them to hide their very mass from the prying eyes of a MDS. Additionally, enemy weapons systems that rely upon Gravitonic effects can be countered somewhat should their mass-distorting properties be detected early enough. Mass Detector Sensors are more sensors than defensive systems, but they do come in handy for both purposes. (1,000 tons) 4,000 Improved Electronics - 1,000 Improved Transaluminum Classification: Sensor Structural Integrity: 1000 Prerequisite Technologies: Mk I Long Range Sensor, 2nd Generation Space Science Displacement Blink Speed: Good Counters: Gravitonics Sensor Strength: Good Counters: Minefields <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Which raises another interesting question. Why research gravatonic weapons as one's main battle weapon? They seem easily countered by other techs that seem mandatory for other reasons (as above). I know, there may be enticing branchs of the grav tree, but for a weapons system alone? (Guess I just highjacked this thread.....) Octus <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The same can be said about missile weapons or fighters. There are systems out there namely ENGINES that counter those very weapons but and this is a BUT it will take quite a few of those engines to make a difference as evidenced by the combat document draft. And if a ship is designed with mainly engines then it wont have too many other systems. Of course once you get to very advanced engines this changes a bit but not much. Advanced missiles and fighter craft get even more deadly and powerful. By following a pattern I have seen in the size of a certain missile weapon system a 22000 ton missile will have a firepower of nearly 3 million and a manuver rating that is off the chart on the example given in the combat document. Food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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