Naval Upgrades

[Magus666]

Ok, another question from a newbie. Is it possible to upgrade, or "retro-fit" existing ships? (I thought of this while watching a History Channel show on the US aircraft carrier Midway, which underwent NUMEROUS retro-fits during its time.)

 

For example, I have colonial transports shuttling colonists to colony worlds. A war breaks out between me and a neighboring empire. Could I recall these transports to my HW, convert the COLONIAL berthings to TROOP berthings (plus maybe add some armor and PD weapons) and use them for transporting military?

 

Or...I have one very large, very expensive and long time to build "Imperial Command Cruiser" with lots of the best armor, best sensors, and best computer systems I can build. During exploration, I find a stockpile of advanced armor and computer components, more advanced than what I can make. Id like to use these to upgrade my Command Ship. Can this be done?

 

BTW, I am aware that I could SCRAP these ships, recover the components, and then rebuild them in the new configuration. In fact, for smaller vessels, this might be practical, since REbuilding something often is more difficult than just building anew. However, this does not seem logical for very large ships which may take several turns to DECONSTRUCT, then several more turns to RECONSTRUCT, when all that is being done is the addition of new armor, or other moderately simple upgrades or modifications.

[ali-t-akua]

Ok, another question from a newbie.  Is it possible to upgrade, or "retro-fit" existing ships? (I thought of this while watching a History Channel show on the US aircraft carrier Midway, which underwent NUMEROUS retro-fits during its time.)

 

For example, I have colonial transports shuttling colonists to colony worlds. A war breaks out between me and a neighboring empire. Could I recall these transports to my HW, convert the COLONIAL berthings to TROOP berthings (plus maybe add some armor and PD weapons) and use them for transporting military?

 

Or...I have one very large, very expensive and long time to build "Imperial Command Cruiser" with lots of the best armor, best sensors, and best computer systems I can build. During exploration, I find a stockpile of advanced armor and computer components, more advanced than what I can make. Id like to use these to upgrade my Command Ship. Can this be done?

 

BTW, I am aware that I could SCRAP these ships, recover the components, and then rebuild them in the new configuration. In fact, for smaller vessels, this might be practical, since REbuilding something often is more difficult than just building anew. However, this does not seem logical for very large ships which may take several turns to DECONSTRUCT, then several more turns to RECONSTRUCT, when all that is being done is the addition of new armor, or other moderately simple upgrades or modifications.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

You actually have the answer regarding retrofitting ships. The only way to do so is to SCRP the ship and rebuild it with the new components. There is no retrofit command that allows you to do so without having the Scrap step.

[Paradigm]

There is no refit option, which is unfortunate because when you scrap and rebuild you loose all experience and morale.

[General Miles Avatar]

There is no refit option, which is unfortunate because when you scrap and rebuild you loose all experience and morale.

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well I dont see where is matters all that much as experience amd morale seem to work for some and not for others.

 

In the boat of players who have yet to get any benefit from the LFE order when it comes to

morale. EVERY single one of my fleets even ones from way back when i started the game are still

green.

[hobknob]

I have yet to see any benefit from moral and experience. When ships are simply programmed to fire until destroyed it seems unlikely that they would ahve much effect. I could have 100's of corvettes of the veteran types, but I don't see that you get much effect for it.

 

What we really need is for the Oracle to just tell us what kinds of benefits you get or what kind of penalties you have with green timid crews. It would be nice to know if your green crews suffer a 5% penalty to everything. I don't know how this would save them when a 4M point plasma torpedo envelops them, but it would be nice to know.

 

[WKE235]

Since there is no "Refit" command, scrapping a ship and rebuilding it just to replace some pieces with more advanced items could be a waste of time.

 

Imagine a ship that is 3 systems out with no transwarp drive and low AP (2). It would take three turns to fly home, a turn to scrap, a turn to build, and then 1-3 turns to fly back to where it was. 6-8 turns? Why bother. You simply build a new ship with all new stuff, send it out, and the older ship is relagated to more risky duties -- like being the first into an unknown WP (in case an enemy is on the other side). The new ship is way better AND gets to the front way quicker.

 

On the other hand, I have found it useful to scrap and rebuild colony ships and transport ships, to add more and better engines while resuing all the Colonial Berthings and Cargo Bays.

[Hughestrog]

Some things are worth reusing (i.e. colonial berthings, cargo bays, Mk I nuclear engines). But you could 'speed' up the deconstruction/reconstruction process by making more shipyards.

[rotor911]

can you SCRP then SHIP in the same turn, reusing immediately the components? I'd say no but...

[Hughestrog]

can you SCRP then SHIP in the same turn, reusing immediately the components? I'd say no but...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I haven't tried but it would still come down to your shipyard capacity.

[ali-t-akua]

can you SCRP then SHIP in the same turn, reusing immediately the components? I'd say no but...

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I haven't tried but it would still come down to your shipyard capacity.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

rotor, I believe your assumption is correct. The components must be in inventory when you issue the SHIP order. If you are getting the components from scrapping another ship, they will not show up in inventory until after the SHIP oirder is issued because orders run prior to shipyards.

[Magus666]

That just strengthens the need for some kind of refit command (on the lengthy TO DO list of SN upgrades ). Using the Midway as the example, that ship took about 2 years (turns?) to build. If she had to be SCRP'd and SHIP'd to do any kind of upgrades, that would be a minimum of 4 turns. Each of the refits that she went through took less than ONE year (turn). Thats a lot of difference in the amount of time that shipyards are tied up and the amount of time a capitol ship is offline.

 

Certainly, for smaller ships, it would make more sense just to build new ones. But for the largest ships, which take alot of time and resources, tie up alot of Industy to make components (or which have FOUND components that CANT be duplicated), and tie up alot of Shipyard capacity, a refit would seem to be a practical option.

 

It could work something like this:

 

Refit Ship

This order is used to refit ships at a Shipyard. The Items that are required to refit each ship are deducted from the Population Group they are ordered refit at when the order is executed. If Item stockpiles prove insufficient to refit every ship indicated, the Quantity of ships will be reduced to meet available stockpiles. Items that are removed from a refit ship are recovered into warehouses at the shipyard's Population Group when the refit is completed. Construction time is calculated based on [Tonnage Built + Tonnage Scrapped] + 20% to account for the additional difficulty of rebuilding.

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REFT, Quantity, Ship Class 1, Ship Class 2, Population Group #, Build Priority, Fleet #

 

Quantity The number of ships you want your shipyards to refit

Ship Class 1 The name of the ship you want refit FROM

Ship Class 2 The name of the ship you want refit TO

Population Group # The ID of the Population Group where you want the ships refit. If you enter a 0 in the Fleet ID, the shipyard workers will refit ships allready in their yards. If you enter a non-zero number in the Fleet ID, the ships will be transferred to the shipyard in that Population Group.

[Magus666]

In case that wasnt clear, what I meant was:

 

Say you want to upgrade the Computer on your Death Star Battle World Planet Killer, which has 1000000 tons of Armor and 1000000 tons of Weapons. You want to upgrade from 1 Mk III Computer to 1 Mk IV Computer (its big, not smart).

 

Instead of tying up many shipyards for a very long time to SCRP and SHIP it, or lots of resources, Industry and again shipyards to SHIP a new one...one shipyard could do the refit in one turn. You would need to have one Mk IV computer in stock when you submitted the order...and would end up with one Mk III computer in stock when you were done. The total tonnage "constructed" would be 1200 tons.

500 tons for the Mk III that is being removed, 500 tons for the Mk IV being installed, plus 20% for the refit.

[SargonKingOfSlith]

Pete mentioned the intention to add a refitting command to the game a long time ago. But I don't think it is a very high priority.

 

I don't know if morale and experience have any real affect on combat. But assuming that the affect is minimal - then scrapping and rebuilding is really not that big a deal. Since you recover all materials, the crew is pretty unimportant. Now I could be wrong, maybe a highly trained crew doubles firepower or something like that. But I doubt it.

 

It doesn't take very long for an empire to develope an extremely large shipyard capacity. By the time you get to the point where you really want to rebuild those ships - you will be able to.

[hobknob]

It should never take you more than a single turn to build a ship on the HW. If it does, it is a conscious decision that is made. When you build a shiny new Star DN of 25M tons, you don't want it to sit in the yards for many turns getting completed. The solution is to build more yards, even if they are just there for a single turn to construct the ship.

 

The refit option is already in the game, it is called scrap and rebuild.

 

That old Battle Cruiser that is pretty dated may not be worth rebuilding into another BC but it can be converted into 1000 screens quite nicely and who would not like to have an extra 1000 screens.

 

 

Rather than a refit command I would like to see some mobile shipyard/tenders that can follow a fleet and conduct more extensive repairs. This could also be used to makes repairs on WP dfense fleets without making yourself more vulnerable by taking orbitals toa planet to be scrapped and repaired in the current method.

 

What we really need is a ship repair module that would increase a fleets ability to self repair dramatically. I think a 50,000 ton bay that could effect a given tonnage of fleet would be quite nice.

 

 

[ali-t-akua]

That just strengthens the need for some kind of refit command (on the lengthy TO DO list of SN upgrades ). Using the Midway as the example, that ship took about 2 years (turns?) to build. If she had to be SCRP'd and SHIP'd to do any kind of upgrades, that would be a minimum of 4 turns. Each of the refits that she went through took less than ONE year (turn). Thats a lot of difference in the amount of time that shipyards are tied up and the amount of time a capitol ship is offline.

 

Certainly, for smaller ships, it would make more sense just to build new ones. But for the largest ships, which take alot of time and resources, tie up alot of Industy to make components (or which have FOUND components that CANT be duplicated), and tie up alot of Shipyard capacity, a refit would seem to be a practical option.

 

It could work something like this:

 

Refit Ship

This order is used to refit ships at a Shipyard. The Items that are required to refit each ship are deducted from the Population Group they are ordered refit at when the order is executed. If Item stockpiles prove insufficient to refit every ship indicated, the Quantity of ships will be reduced to meet available stockpiles. Items that are removed from a refit ship are recovered into warehouses at the shipyard's Population Group when the refit is completed. Construction time is calculated based on [Tonnage Built + Tonnage Scrapped] + 20% to account for the additional difficulty of rebuilding.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

REFT, Quantity, Ship Class 1, Ship Class 2, Population Group #, Build Priority, Fleet #

 

Quantity                    The number of ships you want your shipyards to refit

Ship Class 1                The name of the ship you want refit FROM

Ship Class 2                The name of the ship you want refit TO

Population Group #      The ID of the Population Group where you want the ships refit. If you enter a 0 in the Fleet ID, the shipyard workers will refit ships allready in their yards. If you enter a non-zero number in the Fleet ID, the ships will be transferred to the shipyard in that Population Group.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Other than saving an order, how does this idea differ from what we have today?

 

(Oops sorry hobknob, I see you replied while I was typing my answer.

Edited February 24, 2006 by ali-t-akua