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Transferring Items


Magus666
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How do you transfer items (cargo) between ships in space? For example: I have a taskforce on combat station near a warp nexus. In a recent battle, alot of fighters, interceptors and drones were destroyed. I build some more, load them into cargo ships and transport them to where the combat fleet is. Now...how do I get them OFF the cargo fleet and ONTO the task force? Pulling the taskforce off its station, taking the ships BACK to my HW in order to rearm them just doesnt make sense.

 

There is no colony or population group nearby, since there are no planets here. I see orders for TR items between population groups, orders to LOAD and unload cargo between a fleet and population group, FUEL orders to transfer fuel (ONLY) between fleets...etc.

 

Also...am I correct that the weapon types Missile and Torpedo actually just build the launchers onto a ship and that there are assumed to be an unlimited number of the weapons themselves for use? IE, you dont have to build more torpedos or missiles after a combat to rearm the ships. (It makes sense from a game balance standpoint, since none of the "energy" type weapons need to be reloaded)

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How do you transfer items (cargo) between ships in space? For example: I have a taskforce on combat station near a warp nexus. In a recent battle, alot of fighters, interceptors and drones were destroyed. I build some more, load them into cargo ships and transport them to where the combat fleet is. Now...how do I get them OFF the cargo fleet and ONTO the task force? Pulling the taskforce off its station, taking the ships BACK to my HW in order to rearm them just doesnt make sense.

 

There is no colony or population group nearby, since there are no planets here. I see orders for TR items between population groups, orders to LOAD and unload cargo between a fleet and population group, FUEL orders to transfer fuel (ONLY) between fleets...etc.

 

I am not aware of any order to allow this. You have to take the task force back to a pop grp and do an OC and LC to transfer the items from fleet to fleet. It does seem that there should be an order to allow you to do what you want in this case. Maybe Pete or one of the elders can shed some light on why it does not exist.

 

Also...am I correct that the weapon types Missile and Torpedo actually just build the launchers onto a ship and that there are assumed to be an unlimited number of the weapons themselves for use? IE, you dont have to build more torpedos or missiles after a combat to rearm the ships. (It makes sense from a game balance standpoint, since none of the "energy" type weapons need to be reloaded)

 

You are correct. Only Fighters and Drones need to be restocked. In exchange for this requirement, Fighters and Drones have more firepower for their mass than equivalent generation weapons, according to the Oracle.

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How do you transfer items (cargo) between ships in space? For example: I have a taskforce on combat station near a warp nexus. In a recent battle, alot of fighters, interceptors and drones were destroyed. I build some more, load them into cargo ships and transport them to where the combat fleet is. Now...how do I get them OFF the cargo fleet and ONTO the task force? Pulling the taskforce off its station, taking the ships BACK to my HW in order to rearm them just doesnt make sense.

 

There is no colony or population group nearby, since there are no planets here. I see orders for TR items between population groups, orders to LOAD and unload cargo between a fleet and population group, FUEL orders to transfer fuel (ONLY) between fleets...etc.

 

Also...am I correct that the weapon types Missile and Torpedo actually just build the launchers onto a ship and that there are assumed to be an unlimited number of the weapons themselves for use? IE, you dont have to build more torpedos or missiles after a combat to rearm the ships. (It makes sense from a game balance standpoint, since none of the "energy" type weapons need to be reloaded)

 

Magus666,

 

The only way (with the exception of fuel) to transfer cargo between two fleets at the same location is with the RN (Reorganize Naval) order. When ever a ship is tranfered from one fleet to another, it brings with it whatever cargo it can carry.

 

Lets say fleet A needs to be restocked with drones, for example.

Fleet B arrives with a full shipment of same.

 

First you do a RN order, transfering all the drone ships from fleet A to B.

Then you do a second RN order, tranfering those ships back from B to A. When those ships move from from B to A, they will carry with them as many drones as thier drone racks will carry.

 

There are some problems with this. First (and most obvious) it is awkward. It takes two orders. Most distressingly, if B has many more drones than A needs, and they are of multiple types, there is no way to control which drones are transfered to A. And finally, there used to be a bug, may be there still, that under some circumstances caused more drones to be transfered to A than A could actually carry.

 

Pete has considered creating an order for transfer of cargo, but apparently is concerned about some play ballence issues that might result. So he chose not to implement it.

 

And yes, you are correct. The only weapons that have ammunition considerations are Drones and Fighters. All other weapon types have a built in infinite supply.

 

TErnest

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In the times of yore (pre-SN:ROTE), the Fleet Transfers were a source of abuse. You could set up a "bucket brigade" of cargo fleets to transfer cargo (or Troops or Fighters or Drones) from your Homeworld to the outer fringes of your domain in a single turn. [For the BattleTech Grognards out there, it was sometimes called a "command circuit".] To prevent this kind of high-speed resupply, Fleet Transfers do not exist, as such. You can still send supplies from your homeworld to the frontier, but you need high AP Transwarp capable ships to do so. You can also do it through the judicious use of Colony Beacons, Convoy Routes, plus the Offload Cargo [OC] and Load Cargo [LC] orders (as mentioned by Ali-t-akua - congrats on reaching the 1000+ post club, btw!).

:blink:

 

A Colony Beacon can be dropped on any Planet, Gas Giant or Asteroid Field to establish a Pop Group. Pop Groups without population can still be used for OC/LC orders and have the benefit of not suffering attrition - anything times zero is still zero. :taz:

 

Thus you can have Fleet A going from your HW to Waypoint 1 (PopGroup X), where Fleet B can pick the cargo and ferry it to Waypoint 2 (PopGroup Y), where Fleet C acquires the cargo, etc. As long as your "cargo" ships have the appropriate number of Cargo Bays (or Drone Rack, Fighter Bays, Troop Berthings, etc.) you can still move cargo from one end of your empire to the other in stages (through Convoy Routes) or in one turn with a LOT of orders.

 

Here endeth the lesson. :taz:

 

-SK :drunk:

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First you do a RN order, transfering all the drone ships from fleet A to B.

Then you do a second RN order, tranfering those ships back from B to A.  When those ships move from from B to A, they will carry with them as many drones as thier drone racks will carry.

 

I thought that the ships when RN split the cargo evenly?

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First you do a RN order, transfering all the drone ships from fleet A to B.

Then you do a second RN order, tranfering those ships back from B to A.  When those ships move from from B to A, they will carry with them as many drones as thier drone racks will carry.

 

I thought that the ships when RN split the cargo evenly?

 

No they don't. It is exactly as TErnest describes.

 

And the bug is still there - after a few RNx2 recently I need to detail some changes to the Oracle to fix as I have fighters all over the place now.

 

The only real problem to this is if someone exploits this in a battle - in which case it's petition time!

 

The real name of the game here is logistics. You need to establish 're-supply' depots near the front - just done with a COLB. You then bring up your haulers with Fuel, Fighter and Drones and drop them off.

 

Especially with the fuel use needs of fleets - it's a simple and reasonably elegant way to get some decent logistics into the game.

 

Chief Planner to Ur-Lord Tedric, Professional, and occasionally chastened, Logistician :drunk:

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No they don't.  It is exactly as TErnest describes.

 

I'm still learning! :drunk:

 

So this would also work in a convoy route? :taz:

 

 

I think we are ALL still learning, Hughestrog! :taz:

 

Actually, I do not think that you can work it into a single convoy route, due to the way that convoys treat the RN order. The method I described requires that one transfer ships both ways, from A to B, then B to A. The RN order, when executed in a convoy route, will only allow transfers in one direction. (Can't remember which way that is... executing fleet to passive fleet, or passive to executing.)

 

In theory, one could have serial executing convoy runs, first one ending in an RN A to B, then the next one, executed by the other fleet involved, beginning in an RN B to A. That would be a real challenge to organize!

 

And then you still have all the drawbacks I mentioned earlier:

It is very clumbsy.

The results are unpredicable whenever one has more than one item type in cargo.

The fighter / drone quantity bug.

 

TErnest

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No they don't.  It is exactly as TErnest describes.

 

I'm still learning! :drunk:

 

So this would also work in a convoy route? :taz:

 

 

I think we are ALL still learning, Hughestrog! :taz:

 

Actually, I do not think that you can work it into a single convoy route, due to the way that convoys treat the RN order. The method I described requires that one transfer ships both ways, from A to B, then B to A. The RN order, when executed in a convoy route, will only allow transfers in one direction. (Can't remember which way that is... executing fleet to passive fleet, or passive to executing.)

 

In theory, one could have serial executing convoy runs, first one ending in an RN A to B, then the next one, executed by the other fleet involved, beginning in an RN B to A. That would be a real challenge to organize!

 

And then you still have all the drawbacks I mentioned earlier:

It is very clumbsy.

The results are unpredicable whenever one has more than one item type in cargo.

The fighter / drone quantity bug.

 

TErnest

 

I was thinking of applying it to my XEXPL ships. Rather than have them over a colony with the XOC, I'd be able to set up a convoy route to pick up everything from my ships rather than the colonies- so I wouldn't need the colony.

 

Oh well....

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I was thinking of using it more for creating supply or transfer terminals near Warp Points. Place a big ship or orbital installation which is nothing more than a bunch of cargo bays (and maybe some selfprotection weapons and armor) in orbit around a warp point. Then, cargo vessels from outlying colonies could warp in to the system, Unload their cargos of raw materials to the transfer terminal, load up cargos of finished products and construction materials, and warp back to their destination star systems without using up multiple turns. Other ships would carry the materials from the Transfer terminal to the HW, and resupply items back. This would solve some of the issues caused by the loss of all APs when you warp. I dont neccesarily see THAT as abusive of the system, just smart logistics. However, I do see how this could also be abused as described, in order to move items across MULTIPLE warp points in a single turn.

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