Battle Report

[Locklyn]

One problem with this if it indeed is an Error with Attack Fighters is that everyone that has been on the receiving end of Attack Fighters in battle could demand the battles to be redone if they indeed are 5 times to powerful...

 

So if Pete could just answer this thread or any of the emails sent in the past on this specific item so we know if it is wrong or not.

 

 

/Locklyn

[Paradigm]

PS  With so much in the database there are bound to be the odd errors that we will find.  Please can we all just let RTG know when we find such...

 

Which is an excellent reason such data should be made public. The last thing I want is to loose a game due to a such an error. Nor would I want to win a game due to such an error.

[MadMartinB]

What I find amazing is the lack of loses on the Roman side. He clearly should have won the battle but he assaulted through a warp point. The G'ould ship does dish out damage: about 1.3M. Divided by 13 still gives 100k per pop.

 

So an unknown number of ships came through on pulse 1.

We don't know the type of ship that came through.

Sensors on their part are suppose to be down but probably were not.

Of the ships that came through (assuming some of the mass horde) none have weapons. So we were killed by Attack Fighters.

 

I really think the combat system is broken. I guess our commanders said...oh here come 50 floating junk ships. We can shoot 13 of them out of the air but we will focus on just one a turn.

 

BROKEN.

 

I agree with Slish..it was a win for the Romans but 9 ships?

 

ship 1: AUXL PILUM 4W (Light Auxiliary - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 2,300] (Green, Timid)

100 Fuel Tankage, 1 Mk I Nuclear Engine, 1 Mk I Nuclear Jump Drive, 700 Standard Hull Plate

Maneuverability: 0.300, Point Defense: 6,213.595

[MadMartinB]

To add insult to injury we had 10,000 4cm Gauss CIDS and 500 MK I Repulsor CIDS and didn't shoot a single fighter down. Amazing leadership. Amazing.

[Locklyn]

Actually MMB you did inflict losses on the fighters, don't assume that just because you can't see it in the battle report, also the weapon placement was abysmal for the type of weapons used as their range reqs gave them horrific negatives. You had two vessels there with high FC, lousy weapon damage dealt through bad range placements and the fighters hammered your two ships to pieces probably in two or three pulses...that's why no more screens were lost

 

But I'm sure Pete will get around to answering this eventually

 

Locklyn

[MadMartinB]

It probably means that the Capital Ship came through and we could not damage it. What concerns me is that we did no damage in impulse one.

 

As to abysmal damage.....how were we suppose to know that gravitonics are short range.

[Locklyn]

As to abysmal damage.....how were we suppose to know that gravitonics are short range.

 

Most of the early Gravitonic weapons are short range what the higher ones have in range way is first now apparent through the new ANZ we've pushed for long. You've been one of those saying we ask to much of RTG so why don't direct that question to them and the forthcoming Naval Combat Primer.

 

Also almost all the weaponry on your two ships are both relatively early generation weapons and you deployed in location 9. The missiles are only Medium range and goth clobbered by his high CIDS through his Attack Fighters, what did you expect to happen?

 

 

/Locklyn

[Paradigm]

MMB, I think the key is that most of the Roman fleet was safe on the other side of the WP while the Roman attack fighters destroyed the Tentacled fleet. It does seem surprising that 280,000 tons of fighters could destroy the 3Mt Tentacled fleet before the Tentacled fleet could do more damage than it did, even given that the Tentacled fleet was firing from DepLoc 9. The Roman AUXH CENTURION B only shows as having 120,000 shields.

 

If the Attack Fighters are miss-entered in the RTG database at 5x their correct firepower as some have suggested, that would go a long way to explaining it as well. Instead of being attacked by 280,000 tons of "Good" fighters at point blank range, it would be the equivalent of 1,400,000 tons of "Good" fighters. I don't think Slish gave the actual Structural Integrity of the Tiger Shark, but I could see such fighters chewing through 300,000 Selenite Battle Weave in a few rounds.

 

I eagerly await news as to whether the Attack Fighters were doing far more damage than they should have due to an error in the system. If so, this battle should be re-fought. I'm reasonably sure that the Tentacled fleet will still loose, but it'll probably do more damage than killing just 9,000 tons of junk. If the fighter's strength is correct, I guess it illustrates how weak 10cm Gauss Guns are when firing from DepLoc 9. They are after all only "Fair" weapons and reduced to something like 10% by range. The Mk I Standard Missile shouldn't be as badly affected by range, but it's a "poor" weapon so is really on the sad side. The Tentacled fleet was pretty badly out-tech'ed in this battle now that I look at it closer.

[Locklyn]

If the numbers in the database are incorrect as some suspect and Pete has yet to answer, then the problem is that if this battle is rerun, then every battle where Attack Fighters have been involved should rightly be rerun, I think everyone on the receiving end would think so and this seems simply not doable. But untill Pete actuallys answers this and the other threads on the boards it's not worth speculating about.

 

 

/Locklyn

[MadMartinB]

I spoke with Pete....and came up with a possible solution.

 

All of the big ships came in first. Leaving the little ones behind. We spread our damage out over the capital ships and did little damage (not registering any).

 

2800 Attack Fighters is really not much fire power but if a capital ship came through each time then there is some possibility of the scenario playing out.

[Gary Carpenter]

One of my Allies, in a battle, fought about 2800 attack fighters, and took out 400 screen ships before being destroyed. So something else is going on here other than attack fighters being too powerful. BTW, his fleet fire control was 1.

[Justinian]

MMB! You're back...good to hear from you. No, really.

 

MadMartinB Posted Today, 11:07 AM

What I find amazing is the lack of loses on the Roman side. He clearly should have won the battle but he assaulted through a warp point. The G'ould ship does dish out damage: about 1.3M. Divided by 13 still gives 100k per pop.

But then degrade your 100k per "pop" by a bunch due to range penalties.

So an unknown number of ships came through on pulse 1.

We don't know the type of ship that came through.

Sensors on their part are suppose to be down but probably were not.

Of the ships that came through (assuming some of the mass horde) none have weapons. So we were killed by Attack Fighters.

So...you don't know which ships came through, but none had weapons? You better check your turn sheet again...there were weapons present and in an actual DepLoc to do damage. I do agree that we don't know the order of transit, however...which would explain a lot. But that's not currently an option on the battle report.

To add insult to injury we had 10,000 4cm Gauss CIDS and 500 MK I Repulsor CIDS and didn't shoot a single fighter down. Amazing leadership. Amazing.

Man, you've been in how many battles and don't know that fighter losses are not listed for the enemy? There were losses.

As to abysmal damage.....how were we suppose to know that gravitonics are short range.

Now THAT is a line of reasoning I'm acquainted with...and worked through it...with armor...fire control...engines...shields...orbital strength...CIDS...fighters...it's a long list.

Paradigm Posted Today, 12:03 PM

I don't think Slish gave the actual Structural Integrity of the Tiger Shark, but I could see such fighters chewing through 300,000 Selenite Battle Weave in a few rounds...The Mk I Standard Missile shouldn't be as badly affected by range, but it's a "poor" weapon so is really on the sad side.

And don't forget the firepower from any capital ships that transited...and the missiles had to deal with a LOT of CIDS carried on Roman ships and from Roman fighters. This essentially left not a single enemy weapon system that wasn't seriously degraded by either DepLoc or defenses. Look guys, it was a poor plan poorly executed...learn and move on.

 

It's not that I don't want to KNOW how a battle progresses as well--I want to have confidence in the battle engine as well. And I'm getting more confident in it all the time. But from the Roman point of view, we've had to work through numerous battle reports, millions of lost tonnage, and spurious data points to carve out a picture of the battle engine. And since I have what I consider a plausible scenario to explain the battle...I'm good with it. I even understand the Tentacle/Go'ald sentiment--it sucks to lose that kind of tonnage. But having felt both sides, the winning side is a lot more fun

[Locklyn]

I spoke with Pete....and came up with a possible solution.

 

Possible being the operative word here unless Pete actually looks at the battle, looks at the database of Attack Fighters and actually responds to those who raised this question to him some time ago. Otherwise it's still speculation.

 

Good Post Emperor Justinian!

 

 

/Locklyn

[Locklyn]

Ali posted:

 

I guess I had better be nice to eveyone as I am certain that my tech is not as advanced as the Elder races. smile.gif Based on this battle report I stand no chance in fighting an Elder race.

 

Actually it is easier defending your home turf than you think even with initial tech.

 

Start with deciding on 2-3 main weapon systems that you will concentrate your main offensive armament into. Decide upon which depending on your specific flavor but always ensure you have at least one long range weaponry (Fighters, Drones, Long Lance Torpedoes etc) One Medium range and one short range weaponry covered.

 

Always research armor, always...

 

EDAC is a good allround damage reducing tech to gain quickly. Once you are in a shooting war and discover your opponent is using 100cm Siege Railguns then it is a good idea to put some effort into deflectors or whatever

 

Decide a border around your systems and where you wish to have a "no ships beyond this point unless you are related to me" line. Along this line setup SENS pickets at EVERY WP, needn't be big or armed just so that you have ships present. I like to put them at GGs as well cause an invading armada needs to refuel. Remember that your initial biggest defense is the enemy not knowing your system layouts, what WPs to use and your HW placement so ensure you have ships and orbitals at all WPs to not leave a breadcrumb trail so to speak

 

Along this border also have a convoy route going with an armed patrol that can step in and destroy surveyors that don't get the hint and pass your first sentry SENS ships.

 

Decide an inner border ie often one or two systems out from your HW. Ensure armed ships capable enough to kill the sole pathfinder are at all these WPs. Look at the WPs leading into those systems next to your HW system, what size are they? This is the minimum number of screen ships you need to be able to clear per round on the other side. The systems next to your homeworld should all contain a colony busy building orbitals for the WPs in those systems. Tow them to the WPs, that 3x integrity bonus helps even with crappy armor.

 

Be aware that one way warp points from 10 systems out may lead to a system next to your HW or the system next to that so always have ships at every WP in your core region.

 

Understand weapon placement and that even a strong ship can be wrecked by poor deployment. 1500 10cm ACs still pack a punch if place correctly and with the right amount of armor and FC will keep you kicking for quite some time.

 

Be aggressive in your exploration, better to find the neighbours before they find you, use system beacons to claim systems and then noone can say "oops was I in YOUR territory, I didn't know that"

 

If you want some more specific pointers and a trick or two, drop me a line Ali!

 

Happy hunting

 

 

/Locklyn

[ali-t-akua]

Thanks Locklyn