"So whats yer rank" -- Galactic Ranking System?

[Lord Uriel]

Krellnet,

I couldn't have said it better.

[hobknob]

I would like to see a list as I described because it would be fun to see. I care very little for the "Naval Combat Doc" and at this point I think it is likely vapor ware anyway. I also think there will be little of value in it for me. We needed the document back before we were deciding on combat strategies and by now many of us are already commited and have pretty much figured out how it works. From a purely selfish standpoint I would rather see it not come out as I would just as soon keep my hard won knowledge to myself. The rest of you who don't know how it works can either ask or figure it out the way we did.

 

So, I find that there are a lot of enhancements to the game that I would like to see before getting another document that says how it is "supposed" to work and reitterating what many of us have already figured out. A top 10 list of generic stuff would be great as well as a host of other things that have either been suggested, requested or promised.

 

[EternusIV]

Why a Sunflower Didn't Pre-Order His Naval Combat Update

(and how the heck do pacifist weeds know anything about space combat anyway?)

==========================================

 

Its interesting: my point of view on the rulebook is that it promises an open-ended empire building game with an elegant simple ruleset Yes - we've had to fill in the details. But I don't see anything RTG has done to change how the game runs in order to fulfill any 'promise'

 

I also sense that people have different viewpoints of 'what was promised' and I can respect yours as equally as mine.

 

However, I think people struggle when they realize their expectation of that promise is fundamentally different from the rules. I also admit that responses to specific questions on rules should be made public. I've tried my best to assemble all the "Pete posts" and there has been awesome work by many of you to update all the GM notes. This is something we could definitely continue doing until we see a new rulebook.

 

I admit that the original rulebook needs some revision only because its been expanded through Pete posts and GM announcements for over a year or two. Overall though, in my view, the 'promises' of the open-ended game have been more than fulfilled. The road was built but there were very few roadsigns

 

In my view, there have been some tweeks....but I don't really see anything major that deviates from the rules as to redefine the game (the diplomacy issue notwithstanding) Combat hasn't changed (according to the piles of battle reports I've seen) With that said, I really had to explore the issue on fire control and screens for a long while before understanding their significance. The rest of space combat (deployment location and damage allocation) has been very congruent with the SN II rules AND most importantly: as described in the SNROTE rulebook.

 

Which brings me to Hobknob's sentiments. I agree to a certain extent that space combat experience and technical information is something that is earned. The counter-argument is that it places newbs in a tenuous position which designing ships and forming fleet strategies. Luckily, the newb can have the same understanding as the plasma-battered war veteran

 

My main position hasn't done much fighting, but have a very solid understanding of how space combat works. Why? I diligently organized battle reports, Pete posts and player commentary for my own use and haven't seen much deviation from my understanding of how it works.

 

To me, space combat is not a mystery, and I'm using the exact same information publically available (plus a few dozen more combat reports) to those who claim that they are 'in the dark.' I'm only looking forward to the Naval Combat Update document because Pete is good at consolidating information into one document.

 

If you can't wait for a new naval document, I suggest the following: download all the battle reports that have been graciously provided by other players and cut and paste each and every "Pete post" from the forums and organize it into one document. Fill in other holes with specific questions to the forum or Pete.

 

I think you'll discover two things: 1) the combat system is pretty straightforward (and can be improved in my mind), 2) the information in these sources only expands what was already said in the rulebook and first naval combat document.

 

What was 'promised' is already there....I admit its taken some work to see that, and RTG could reduce the workload on our end if they had more resources. But for now, it seems to working just fine. I udnerstand many of you are too busy which is why I took the time to try to organize that information for others to see.

 

EDIT: Now, if Pete goes off and drastically changes something already published about space combat...then yes, I'll be pre-ordering, too.

[ShadowKitsune]

Personally, on the documentation front, I'd rather have an updated set of Orders available and how they work before getting the [nigh unto legendary] Naval Combat document.

 

I'm all for a quarterly Galactic Book of Universal Records with such things as Greatest Single Resource Harvest, Greatest Population, Largest Number of Administrators in a Single Empire and other 'fun' facts - without specific Empire names - posted to this Board.

 

However, I'm also of the opinion that you should make sure the car runs before you pay to put racing stripes on it; or in gamer parlance 'crunch' before 'fluff'. Pete's newly revealed improved Combat Reporting Engine sounds great. I look forward to it's release. To me, that's 'crunch', and a Top Ten List is 'fluff'.

 

Does this mean that I think anyone who posts an idea on this board should be flamed out of existence? Nope. I'm with the Eternal Sunflower on that front. The more the merrier, I love to see new ideas. I don't always comment on all of them. I do comment on the ones that I think have great merit or might cause unforeseen harm. I try not to get as upset as I once did about, in the long run, trivial things (e.g. New Players getting psionic material tech - Tritantalum, et al. - for free, while the Oldtimers had to research them).

 

I like this game, a lot. I like and respect Rolling Thunder Games (Pete & Russ). If I didn't, as oxymoronic as it may seem, I wouldn't get as disappointed when implied promises aren't fulfilled. I, too, miss the heady days of yore when the vast majority of the posts were of the "Hey!! Look what I found ..." or "Wouldn't be cool if ... " variety. Instead of the "It's been X months, where's my Y?!" type, that seem to make up the bulk of the posts of late.

 

Anyhow ... here's to things getting better ...

 

-SK

[Lord Uriel]

I guess I'm going to have be viewed as the negative one. I except.

 

"The rest of space combat (deployment location and damage allocation) has been very congruent with the SN II rules AND most importantly: as described in the SNROTE rulebook."

 

Ya know, I wasn't angry until I read that.

So, reading a rulebook for a older (SN II) game system helped you understand the current game?

 

And, if you've played the previous version you kinda have a handle on this, but if not, too bad for you?

 

I'd have felt a little better if the rest of us at least had a chance to read these rules, but ... where are they? I don't see them on Rolling Thunder, oh that's right, it's for a game that doesn't exist anymore.

 

Gee, if I only had those rules to compare them to the new *rules,* I and everyone else who have no idea what's going on could figure it out and Pete could work on something else.

Foolish me. Then I could post about something useful or interesting regarding how much iron I produced this turn, or better yet, I could post about the usefulness of item x. Would that be more interesting? Would that be the tone some are seeking?

 

It's real simple, publish a complete document.

 

Then, myself and a few others with a poor sense of tone for the rest of this board can all go away and do whatever we wish in our own little world. Those who choose to have the most of whatever can lobby to their hearts content, and maybe, after a couple of years you might get it too.

[Kurassier]

Well, I for one have taken a simple approach to space combat since the beginning of the game. My thinking was this.

1) I need better and stronger armor and shields to stay in fights longer,

2) I need better computers/sensors to know where the enemy is and how to shoot at them;

3) I need better and better weapons in order to blast the alien scum;

4) I need a variety of ranges to my weapon systems to place them at different places in the combat line, and

5) Naval leaders improve your targeting and moral.

 

Wait, that's basically every wargames battle strategy!

Hah! I've just posted the New Naval Combat Supplement. Stick it, post it, etc. no need to wait for Pete.

[EternusIV]

So, reading a rulebook for a older (SN II) game system helped you understand the current game?

 

Whoa I can understand where you might be steamed

 

SN II and SNROTE are different when it comes to combat and I rely on the more recent game for understanding space combat.

 

I apologize. I mentioned the SN II system and rulebook only as it applies to the general concept....and more precisely on the process of allocating weapon damage.*

 

Trust me, there is nothing tremendously insightful in the SN II rulebook that would give anyone an edge and I apologize for mentioning it in that regard. I simply learned the new rules using the old SN II format as the foundation from which to understand it. I don't think the SN II Rules are necessary for understanding space combat.

 

Again, sorry

 

* SN II and SNROTE are similar in regards to 'globs' of damage caculated fleet wide that target individual ships....hmmm...this is awkward to articulate. Basically in both systems you add up entire globs of damage on the fleet level and hit the opponent....it breaks down to ONE number (unless the defender has specific defenses...and even after that you get ONE number once it accounts for it) I saw several posts that had whacky presumptions about space combat....but in a box without any exposure to SN II, I can see where these assumptions might have come from their personal bias in playing different space games.

 

The tech tree also confirms that offesnive and defensive components can be assessed with two things (as it was in SN II): 1) tech level "moderate" etc and 2) tonnage (at least in the case for offensive systems)

 

Thats why having EXACT ratings really doens't make a big diff....they are nice to know...but if the other ship has many "Good" weapons stacked up against your Titanium, you're hosed. Ok I'm sort of digressing again.

 

Hope that clears it up somewhat. I admit there's some fuzzy justification.

 

But - if you still feel left out, I'll be happy to dust off my SN II rulebook and scan it one of these days and upload it somewhere.

[Lord Uriel]

Eternus,

Thanks for the offer, but I'll decline. I do have faith in Pete, and after reading his post on what's coming out sometime in the future, I'll wait. I've waited this long, what's another ...(fingers crossed) few turns ...

 

The game covers a broad scope, and even though I have yet to locate even a potential ally, I just want to know how space combat works.

 

However, I must admit that when I saw your SN II line, that was the first time in this posting that I was angry. I briefly debated calling it quits then and there. But, learning that I was outbid on a house today set my priorities straight.

It's a game, which I enjoy, flawed as it is. I will not abandon my Spartans to be overrun by a brain in a jar race

 

Once this is out and ready, count on my support for any weird idea that comes your way.

 

Lord Uriel

[EternusIV]

Lord Uriel

 

I will not abandon my Spartans to be overrun by a brain in a jar race

 

I love your attitude man

 

I wish your Spartans the best in their mission

 

Good luck with house hunting.

[ali-t-akua]

I briefly debated calling it quits then and there. But, learning that I was outbid on a house today set my priorities straight.

 

Hang in there. You will get a great house. It just wasn't meant to happen today. Good Luck.

[Octus Imperium]

I would like to see a list of the top 10 for lots of categories, but I don't think there should be any empire attributed to them.  It will be enough to see that some empire has an iron mining rate of 5M+ to get me envious and wanting to do more myself.  I don't wnat to know who it is, just that it is being done by somebody.  I would also like some sort of news bulletins when somebody has reached a new pinnacle in technology achievement, again without any indication of who did it.  This would certainly add a bit of excitement to the game while keeping the details of who did it confidential.

 

       

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats a pretty cool compromise, actually.

 

As for 'success' - I'm enjoying the challenge of a high-breeding colonization race with no SRPs. I've already succeeded in my mind and if I can protect my space and work closer with my neighbors, all the better.

 

I'd much rather build colony ships and ICM every turn and watch my industrial base continue to boom...but reality forces me to build ships to defend against those who might want to ruin the fun.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What they've said!

 

Octus

[SargonKingOfSlith]

Rather than continue the topic hijack, I started a new topic. See “Basic Combat System Rules”

 

I don’t think that commenting or making new suggestions like this is a bad thing. Anything that continues your interest in the game is good. I trust RTG to keep track of their priorities. I would be really surprised if they started working on a top 10 list right now.

 

However, I agree with an earlier comment that I don’t want information about my empire given to my enemies. They don’t need to know what areas I excel in.

 

But if it could be done in such a way as to:

1. Not give out any strategic information about my empire, and

2. With results adjusted for the age of the empire,

then I’m all for it!

[SargonKingOfSlith]

I briefly debated calling it quits then and there. But, learning that I was outbid on a house today set my priorities straight.

 

Hang in there. You will get a great house. It just wasn't meant to happen today. Good Luck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I lowballed the first offer I made. The seller never came down to my price, and I never came up to his. Man - I'm really glad the deal fell apart! I REALLY like the house I ended up getting much better!

 

So hang in there and try again. House hunting is tough. Luck and timing have a lot to do with it.