Weak Ship Screens

[WKE235]

The Mega-screen strategy attempts to take advantage of (what some consider) a flaw in the game programming, in order to to drastically lower the odds that your important ships will be shot at in a battle. Since the odds of being selected as a target is based on location (not size or firepower or any other key battle valu), you essentially flood the computer with high numbers of targets in a front line location so the bigger ships in the back won't get selected. Combined with the fire control limitations (where even a ship dishing out 40 Million point of damage from thousands of weapons might only be able to fire on one target per round if it lacks needed computer/fire control) this effectively controls the game program to prevent your ships of importance from being targetted.

 

The game seems forced into a Armor vs Weapons + Fire Control race (Fire Control for more targets, weapons to counter armor increases). In this Armor vs Fire Control + Weapons race, armor is winning hands down. The increases in armor protection in advance to advance are multiples better than the advances in bridge/fire control ratings or weapons. For armor advance that gives you a six or more times increase in protection from the previous advance, your opponent needs a similar increase in weapons firepower just to keep pace .. and I've seen nothing like that out there.

[LenLorek]

... In this Armor vs Fire Control + Weapons race, armor is winning hands down.  The increases in armor protection in advance to advance are multiples better than the advances in bridge/fire control ratings or weapons.  For armor advance that gives you a six or more times increase in protection from the previous advance, your opponent needs a similar increase in weapons firepower just to keep pace .. and I've seen nothing like that out there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

WKE235,

 

Your observation fits in perfectly with RTG's intended game strategy -- that it is easier to defend than it is to attack. The warmongers will be frustrated, leaving the game to be "won" by friendly space-faring races.

 

Len Lorek

The Bush Administration

A friendly race of space-faring bushes

[Paradigm]

Actually I think the warmongers are the ones most likely to build mega swarm fleets. While WP assault are not their forte, they can still be effective in that role.

[Clan Elder 'Keen]

I have also done the math and the hinted at item is better on every front than the best armor.  The numbers don't lie.  Unfortunately it will take 10 years for most empires to actually get toa point where that would really matter.  By then, weapons will be dishing out millions of damage to make up for it.

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

OK I'm curious (as are probably alot of people). I know no-one's going to tell me about the 'hinted at item' but if it's going to take years for the rest of us to get to that point, how'd Locklyn get there quickly?

 

Discoveries?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Since he is the Gremloids, one can safely assume he has a very physically small/weak racial design, so there were plenty of points left for both improved research and starting SRPs. If you buy up the first tiers of horizon techs as deep as possible, you are effectively 12+24+36 turns ahead of a standard research race without any SRPs. That's 2 3/4 years of real time. And then with that 7 +s of research bonus you will forever open the gap.

[Hughestrog]

Since he is the Gremloids, one can safely assume he has a very physically small/weak racial design, so there were plenty of points left for both improved research and starting SRPs.  If you buy up the first tiers of horizon techs as deep as possible, you are effectively 12+24+36 turns ahead of a standard research race without any SRPs.  That's 2 3/4 years of real time.  And then with that 7 +s of research bonus you will forever open the gap.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wow!

 

Thanks Clan Elder.

[Paradigm]

You just need to slip your cloaked troop transport past his 10,000 swarm ships and drop a few dozen real divisions on his homeworld.

[Lord Uriel]

*sigh*

So, dreams of epic struggles across the cosmos simply boils down to who has the most 1k ton screens?

 

Does anyone have fun playing this game?

 

 

Maybe, just maybe, eight years from now someone will discover the single weapon that makes armor insignificant.

 

Or, much like the change in thrust values for Mk I Antimatter engines early in the game, Pete could increase the values of bridge devices. Make it more painful for the player that sunk 1 million tons in 1k junkers.

 

Wouldn't be the first time a change has been made to the game, nor likely to be the last.

 

FWIW.

 

Lord Uriel

[ShadowKitsune]

Since he is the Gremloids, one can safely assume he has a very physically small/weak racial design, so there were plenty of points left for both improved research and starting SRPs.  If you buy up the first tiers of horizon techs as deep as possible, you are effectively 12+24+36 turns ahead of a standard research race without any SRPs.  That's 2 3/4 years of real time.  And then with that 7 +s of research bonus you will forever open the gap.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wow!

 

Thanks Clan Elder.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The Gremloids may not be completely a "brain-in-the-jar" race because they are one of the earlier races in the game, which is to say that they were created before the great SRP "exploit" was discovered and utilized by the 2nd Gen races. Plus they could have been focusing their considerable brainpower on a few select techs, rather than a broad based approach. The Armor Tech Tree is one of the most linear research lines in the game. And with the later Scientist mods of only getting breakthroughs on something that you know about, its not that amazing that the little green peaceniks have ubershells to turtle up into.

 

-SK

[Paradigm]

*sigh*

  So, dreams of epic struggles across the cosmos simply boils down to who has the most 1k ton screens?

 

Does anyone have fun playing this game?

 

Well, there are still a few players left . . .

 

All it would take is a weapon that does some damage to all enemy ships regardless of targeting limitations. Such an "area affect" weapon would help greatly vs mega swarms. Maybe it's out there somewhere.

[Lord Uriel]

Paradigm,

 

Thanks for the optimism. I'll remember that I enjoy looking forward to my turns. I'll also hope for a weapon or device that counteracts the impact of the several thousand screens.

Take it easy everyone.

 

Lord Uriel

[ali-t-akua]

If you buy up the first tiers of horizon techs as deep as possible, you are effectively 12+24+36 turns ahead of a standard research race without any SRPs.  That's 2 3/4 years of real time.  And then with that 7 +s of research bonus you will forever open the gap.

 

CEK, I think it is actually 12+27+48 turns which is 3.5 years of real time. This of course does not include research bonuses.

[EternusIV]

Locklyn-

 

Heya Yeah been swamped...Black Hole Dynasty still kickin tho. We should certainly exchange systems. The BHD are a turn 0 race that still have SRPs left...so...trade is certainly an option.

 

Hobknob/Locklyn-

 

Hmmm...I have a pretty good idea about what you're referring to...I'll have to look at it again then. In any event, FC and weapons still have the chore of catching up....whether it be Armor, Coating, etc.

 

Ur-Lord-

 

I've read the Weber/White series too You play Starfire!? I've always wanted to get a game going.

 

General-

 

I just reviewed a PDF sent to me that shows a screen fleet roaming about in space (they actually warped into a stationary picket from a warp nexus) So people are certainly using them. My guess: they are moving the screen ships in advance to their intended target and will then rush their high AP assault ships to the front once ready to assault!

 

As many of you know, I devote what spare time I can into mapping the universe. I'm not at complete liberty to discuss findings (don't worry, no Supreme Pattern yet)...however I think it is generally understood that he nearest home system to our own seems to range anywhere from 4-12 systems out (its not a uniform number among empires, I'll reveal that much for 100% certainty.) Assuming you pick the right survey choices, it is conceivable to build and send out HW assualt screens fleets in as little as 4-12 turns! The low mobility of screens only translates to prolonged campaigns...nothing more (in essence, it levels the playing field on engine technology to a degree if you think about it.)

 

Sadly, Paradigm I don't think there will be weapons with independent targeting rules as you suggest in light of everything I've read about the Naval Combat system. It would be like introducing nuclear weapons to the Victory! game.

 

RTG: "well, everythin in the rules about combat still applies...except to these nukes that you can luck into!" From what I know of the company, that would never happen.

 

So, dreams of epic struggles across the cosmos simply boils down to who has the most 1k ton screens?

 

Does anyone have fun playing this game?

 

Well...we can certainly hope that isn't the case. I'm personally still having fun and will be here until the community fades out (like any grand strategy game ultimately does.) From what I can tell, people are still having a good time.

 

In the end of the analysis - a game is only as entertaining as the players make it

 

PS = Based on that PDF, I'm going to whip up a little spreadsheet that will aid in defeating pure screen fleets. Input: enemy design. Output: Fire control and weapon strength needed to eliminate them. I'll label it "SCREENOFF!" as a tribute to our earthly gnats.

[WKE235]

Hmmm .. some type of AOE weapon. That would be nice, if it exist in the game somewhere. I know the Type A Cloaking Devices aren't the answer to these swarms (and given the way tech flows, more advanced Cloaking Devices still won't do the trick ... though I can imagine a few creative ways to perhaps let an enemy wall of ships go by and then sneak in behind them to bomb their colonies and worlds to bits with advanced MDD's).

 

My biggest hope is to create MDD weapons that can nova stars and wipe out entire star systems, and all the tiny annoying ships. Sure, it would be overkill. But, you play with what the game gives ya, even if it is silly from time to time.

[Locklyn]

WKE 235,

 

That would be the ZB-22 Nova Inducer which while ridicously expensive in weird materials to build, will do the trick once and for all. But how to enslave the incinerated alien HW is a trick we've yet to figure out but it is something to ponder as we continue our quest for the Pocket Universe Creation technology.

 

Cloaks are not as uber as many think, pretty easy to quite early, well relatively speak, find a good detection technology vs cloaked ships.

 

Cheers

 

/Locklyn

[hobknob]

Who needs a good detection device? Cloaked ships seem to be easily detected by just about anything and then promptly destroyed. Hard to tell if they (cloaks) are even working given the results that I have seen.