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AirDrop Question


Warmaster
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It makes no sense to change the airdrop rules only to protect airbases or weakly defended cities. Build some LDBs and a fortification and nobody will attack your airbase. Building transporters is already extremely expensive we need not to reduce the power of air assaults. The defenders should simply use LDBs. It is the choice of the attacking player if he will waste his paratroopers or not and it is the choice of the defender too to be prepared for an air assault.

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The only way to defend your airbase with transports is to use large amounts of ldb's so that after your ground troops are bombed out you still have a great defense against enemy airdrops. Since it usually takes awhile to build up a decent force of transports you should have plenty of time to build up enough ldb's to get the job done adequately. As with any other part of this game it is all about planning ahead.

 

Please explaine Predator - have you performed large airdrops, what was it like

 

The skymaster has a range of 32 and with 25 of them at green you can do amazing things. Even at green you can drop 171 cargo points 20 mcr from your base. By the time these come out in the game your enemy probably has alot of territory and can't possibly build enough troops or ldb to defend against drops of this nature. You literally can drop anywhere on the map!!

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  • 6 months later...
2.  The use of paratroopers on suicide missions is historically and ethically not realsitic.  No actual paratroop drop ever occured during WW II that did not allow for the relief or extraction of the airborne unit within a few weeks.

 

        Solution:  Allow no airdrop unless within 2 provinces of friendly troops or a coastal province or city.  I realize this is a coding nigtmare but name one historical airdrop that does not fit the criteria I have described?

 

        The rules for "suicide" airdrops is already very well covered with the use of Rangers and appears quite realistic. 

 

 

I continue to be annoyed by the unrealistic effect AIR 40 regiments have on the game. Players with Long range Russian and American transports spray AIR 40's all over the map like they were seed corn being sowed in a field. Even the absurb Air 40 drop on Tehran from Morocco is not unheard of with the late game American transport aircraft. I have seen UAE to Moscow drops in the past in one memorable game.

 

Its taken me several years but I think I have the answer and even though RTG is loath to tamper with the programing of the game this would not be too hard.....

 

Modify the rule that triples airlift capacity of a transport plane to a maximum range of 5. The purpose of the triple capcity was because gliders are used. No glider will be able to no more than 5 provinces and this is borne out historically. I can just hear the tow ropes snapping in the turbulence after 3 hour plus in the air! By the way how did all those troopers in the gliders use the restroom facilites for flights longer than two hours? No restrooms on those gliders!...Oh! I forgot they had parachutes they could just "Step Out" when mother nature called.

 

How simple is that? Full airlift capcity per the rules except the trippling lift capcity is limited to 5 SMR.

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Warmaster,

 

I think you will have to live with the rules as these are... Make nessesary preparations for the arrival of enemy paratroopers.

 

I have been on both sides with paratroopers... While on the receiving side, within a few turns no new paradrops occured, as the defences were too much. As for the lost territory, within 2 turns, I liberated the assaulted location...

 

As everybody knows all tech, and knows the tech of your enemy, you can plan your defences.

 

So, I will say: No change in the rules. Everybody should know the capabilities of their enemies and plan accordingly...

 

Norbert

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I think you will have to live with the rules as these are... Make nessesary preparations for the arrival of enemy paratroopers.

 

I

 

I agree with your assesment that I will have to wait for any kind of game system change. I only hope the changes occur sometime before my first Social Security check arrives (yet another item in life that I am promised but not quite sure will happen either).

 

 

Nevertheless I still wish to enjoy the chance to rant.......

 

Now why are these one time only use gliders at no cost in the Victory! system? They aren't free...there is a real cost in air points to manufacture them. How about a rule like all Transport Aircraft using the triple capcity option (gliders) in an Air Assault Mission take an automatic 25% casulties to reflect the loss of the gliders and the cost to replenish them.

 

More realitically but with considerable more programming effort it takes a entirely new air unit name Glider that suffers 100% casulties when used. The Glider unit would be attached to Air Transport aircraft in a maximum 1:1 ratio. It would also require its own airbase rating.

 

Rant complete

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Uhhh.... I dunno about all this, Warmaster.

"Realism" is kinda different pending on individual perceptions.

I've had knocks with similar subjects, between myself and my TA's, concerning different aspects of the game - not to mention that I do give Russ an earful too, from time to time...

 

Any ways, concerning limiting glider use to range 5 SMR; what are you going to do about the Me-323? It is already a glider, technically, and has a range of 9 SMR (!).

 

So, according to the rules; does that mean that the Me-323 also tows, it's equivilance in additional lift capacity with, extra gliders? I don't think so.

 

In its pure glider form, they used 3x Me-110C's to get it airborne! After a few disasters, they developed the He-111Z (Zwilling) to get it airborne. Finally they simply slapped 6 engines and some rocket packs on it. So trying to make a rule about transports, and attaching gliders, is something I do agree with. But, there are quite a few things / types of things, to consider.

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Guest General Spongebob Squarepants

Or you could just accept Victory as a game and play it within the rules.

 

Leave "realism" to any future game with the name Victory II

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  • 2 weeks later...
Leave "realism" to any future game with the name Victory II

 

 

How about this for realism..............I propose abolishing the AIR40 unit out of every tech pack.

 

Except for some Russion drops in the Winter of 1941 there were ZERO regimental drops in the war. Every drop done by the German and Allies was a Division or Corps size airdrop. There was effectively no use the AIR40 Unit. Even the Russians dropped two regiments when they did thier Winter drop which was effectively a light division.

 

The AIR40 serves no good game purpose due to out of proportion effect on the game or in its realism. Isn't elimination from the Tech Pack the easiest programming change of all?

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Leave "realism" to any future game with the name Victory II

 

 

Except for some Russion drops in the Winter of 1941 there were ZERO regimental drops in the war. Every drop done by the German and Allies was a Division or Corps size airdrop. There was effectively no use the AIR40 Unit. Even the Russians dropped two regiments when they did thier Winter drop which was effectively a light division.

 

 

What about Operation Torch, which saw the first major airborne assault carried out by the United State?. The U.S. 509th Parachute Infantry Battalion (yes, battallion!) flew all the way from Britain, over Spain, to drop near Oran and capture airfields at Tafarquay and Youk-Les-Bains. Although the extreme range forced several aircraft to land in the desert, both airports were captured, despite the 509th being widely scattered.

 

On July 13, 1943, more than 112 aircraft and 16 gliders carrying 1,856 men, took off from North Africa. Their initial target was to capture the Primosole bridge and the high ground around it, providing a pathway for the 8th Army, but heavy anti-aircraft fire shot down many of the Dakotas before they reached their target. Only 295 officers and men were dropped close enough to carry out the assault on the bridge. They captured the bridge but the German 4th Parachute Brigade recaptured it. They held the high ground until relived by the 8th army, but the mission had been a failure.

 

US airborne forces were held in reserve during the initial invasion of Italy at Salerno, called Operation Avalanche. A few days later, during the German counter attacks, 5000 paratroopers from the 82nd Airborne and 509th PIB dropped to help secure the beachhead.

 

On August 15, 1944, British parachute units, which included the 4th, 5th and 6th Para battalions and lst Indian Army Pathfinders, dropped into Southern France between Frejus and Cannes as part of Operation Dragoon. US airborne forces dropped about 5,000 airborne troops during this operation -- they were called the "1st Airborne Task Force", comprised of several unattached units, including the 509th and 551st PIBs and the 517th Parachute Regimental Combat Team.

 

In the fall of 1943, the U.S. 503rd Parachute Infantry Regiment had a successful drop on the Markham Valley during the invasion of New Guinea. This was the first Allied airborne assault in the Pacific Theater of Operations. In July of 1944, the 503rd jumped again to capture Noemfoor Island off New Guinea.

 

For Operation Dracula, a parachute battalion secured Japanese coastal defences, which allowed the seaborne occupation of Rangoon to proceed without opposition.

 

The Soviets mounted no large-scale Airborne operations in WW2, despite their early leadership in the field in the 1930s. The largest drop was Brigade-sized, and was not successful.

 

 

I'm sure other Victory! players can find other examples in support of AIR40-sized units ... .

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Hello,

 

The only resemblance Victoy! has with the actual history is that the timeframe is during the historical Second World War and that unit names were used.

 

This is a GAME, in a historical setting. During gameplay it is all about numbers...

 

Setting up a defence against a para regiment is very easy. Any country is able to place sufficient defences to stop an assault using a para regiment!

 

Norbert

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