Hughestrog Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 However, this wasnt really what I had in mind. What I was referring to were those immense "City in Space" type things, where the Installation is totally (or mostly) independant from a planetary body. Think along the lines of Babylon 5, Deep Space 9, Cylon Basestars or the Mother Ship from Independance Day. While they certainly have alot of characteristics in common with typical spaceships - weapons, engines, armor, sensors, etc. - they are also places where large numbers of civilians (or at least non-military, non-explorers) live and work in jobs not directly connected to the operation of the vessel (IE, Population). Like the Eldar Craft Worlds (in GW W40K). As Ali said there are rumours of Dyson spheres and ring worlds, but you'd have to talk to the 'elder' races on the boards to see if they've found a way to build them. Probably not, but eventually you'd be able to. Interesting to find a Dyson sphere with an advanced neutral wouldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-t-akua Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 However, this wasnt really what I had in mind. What I was referring to were those immense "City in Space" type things, where the Installation is totally (or mostly) independant from a planetary body. Think along the lines of Babylon 5, Deep Space 9, Cylon Basestars or the Mother Ship from Independance Day. While they certainly have alot of characteristics in common with typical spaceships - weapons, engines, armor, sensors, etc. - they are also places where large numbers of civilians (or at least non-military, non-explorers) live and work in jobs not directly connected to the operation of the vessel (IE, Population). Like the Eldar Craft Worlds (in GW W40K). As Ali said there are rumours of Dyson spheres and ring worlds, but you'd have to talk to the 'elder' races on the boards to see if they've found a way to build them. Probably not, but eventually you'd be able to. Interesting to find a Dyson sphere with an advanced neutral wouldn't it? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I know I would be excited to find a Dyson sphere or Ringworld in a state of decay much less the added bonus of an advanced neutral. Shades of Larry Niven, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magus666 Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 I dont think "interesting" would describe the situation of finding a Ringworld or Dyson sphere. With a surface area millions of times (at least), larger than any planet, it would take any empire years (REALTIME, not gametime) just to begin to survey it. Interestingly, there is another thread out there about just what "Neutronium Technology" (one that can be found) might be used for. Since, according to what I remember from such novels as RINGWORLD, Neutronium is the only substance strong enough to form the shell of such an object, perhaps it is a precursor technology to actually being able to build such things. However, I wasnt thinking on THAT grand a scale. Im not really that familiar with W40K, but from a quick glance perhaps an Eldar Craftworld is more along the lines. Something that is MILES across, not Millions of miles, and houses a few hundred or few thousand POP (assuming that one POP is a couple hundred individuals), not BILLIONS or TRILLIONS of POP (which a Ringworld easily could). I suppose Im just looking at it from the viewpoint that for a TRUE "Colonizer" type empire, the ability to colonize PLANETS is fine...but the ability to colonize SPACE ITSELF would be the real goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-t-akua Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 I dont think "interesting" would describe the situation of finding a Ringworld or Dyson sphere. With a surface area millions of times (at least), larger than any planet, it would take any empire years (REALTIME, not gametime) just to begin to survey it. Interestingly, there is another thread out there about just what "Neutronium Technology" (one that can be found) might be used for. Since, according to what I remember from such novels as RINGWORLD, Neutronium is the only substance strong enough to form the shell of such an object, perhaps it is a precursor technology to actually being able to build such things. However, I wasnt thinking on THAT grand a scale. Im not really that familiar with W40K, but from a quick glance perhaps an Eldar Craftworld is more along the lines. Something that is MILES across, not Millions of miles, and houses a few hundred or few thousand POP (assuming that one POP is a couple hundred individuals), not BILLIONS or TRILLIONS of POP (which a Ringworld easily could). I suppose Im just looking at it from the viewpoint that for a TRUE "Colonizer" type empire, the ability to colonize PLANETS is fine...but the ability to colonize SPACE ITSELF would be the real goal. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As you get into the game you will find all planets take a long time to explore. However, what you are asking for does not, to my knowledge, currently exist in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 I dont think "interesting" would describe the situation of finding a Ringworld or Dyson sphere. With a surface area millions of times (at least), larger than any planet, it would take any empire years (REALTIME, not gametime) just to begin to survey it. Interestingly, there is another thread out there about just what "Neutronium Technology" (one that can be found) might be used for. Since, according to what I remember from such novels as RINGWORLD, Neutronium is the only substance strong enough to form the shell of such an object, perhaps it is a precursor technology to actually being able to build such things. However, I wasnt thinking on THAT grand a scale. Im not really that familiar with W40K, but from a quick glance perhaps an Eldar Craftworld is more along the lines. Something that is MILES across, not Millions of miles, and houses a few hundred or few thousand POP (assuming that one POP is a couple hundred individuals), not BILLIONS or TRILLIONS of POP (which a Ringworld easily could). I suppose Im just looking at it from the viewpoint that for a TRUE "Colonizer" type empire, the ability to colonize PLANETS is fine...but the ability to colonize SPACE ITSELF would be the real goal. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As you get into the game you will find all planets take a long time to explore. However, what you are asking for does not, to my knowledge, currently exist in the game. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I concur with Ali-t-akua. It would be interesting to see such things as Ringworlds or Dyson spheres, closest thing I could make would be a REALLY big Orbital, but it wouldn't really be a habitat in the classic sense of the word. <shrug> -SK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magus666 Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Ok, on a related topic.... Are "Tug" type spaceships good for anything other than moving Orbital Installations around? I can certainly see the use of building such things (with the added Structural Integrity) at my HW and then towing them to other colony worlds in my system, as well as warp points. But IRL, tugs do alot of other things. Primarily, they help guide very large ships into and out of ports. I see no use for this function. However, Tugs also pull around very heavy cargo barges. In theory, I could see building an "Orbital Installation" that was nothing but a bunch of Cargo Bays, and then using Tug type ships to drag it around. The problem is that I dont see any In-game benefit from doing so, and in fact, it would be very inefficient. IRL, a tug would act like the cab of a big rig truck...pick up a fully loaded barge here, drop it off there, pick up another fully loaded one and haul it back. This would save alot of time since it wouldnt have to wait around while it was being loaded and unloaded. And would be cheaper than having to build engines into all those barges. But...with the way I think the naval movement system works, this wouldnt matter. Reorganize Naval orders are 0 AP actions...but so are Load and Offload Cargo. So it doesnt take any "game time" to move the cargo around. (Note: this strategy would change significantly if Load and Unload Cargo were 1 AP actions....then Tugs WOULD be useful.) Furthermore, you would have to pay the extra cost for the tug's Magnetic Grapples, making it more expensive than just building the engines into the "barge". And finally, unless I read it wrong..."Orbital Installations"...ie, ships without engines...CAN'T be taken through a WP, even if they are being towed by a warp capable ship. So...if I am right in all this...are tugs useful for anything other than hauling armored stations around your home system? (BTW...did I read it correctly that a Light Magnetic Grapple can only pull 600 tons? so in order to "tug" a large armored Orbital Installation would require a Tug with whole LOT of Magnetic Grapples...or upgraded Medium Magnetic Grapples, etc.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Any Tug has a bunch of tractor beams or Mag. Grapples. These are weapons so the ship will act accordingly if engaged. there is no other real useful use for tug other than moving orbitals to the WP and other orbits in a system. Tractors and Mag Grapples have different ratings so pick appropriately for you r needs. More advanced systems do better of course. I think the rating of the Hvy. Mag. Grapple is 70,000 tons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughestrog Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 I think Heavy Tractor Beam may be a better way to go- although it would take longer to research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damiano Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Look at it this way, if you construct an orbital installaton that is nothing more than Cargo bay's then it won't accrue the benefits to it's integrity as it has none to begin with, Add some armour to it and it gets 3*the armour rating and 2 AP. Now the advantage of the tug system is that is far easier to upgrade these without having to scrap the cargo haulers, and It's AP's are unaffected if you chose to RN after moving each orbital. The Tug can be a fairly major warship in it's own right just not able to WARP when it is hauling, put the battle tug in the front rank and assign the orbital Cargo hold to DL12 and you start to gain strategic benefits. I'm not sure if 1 tug can haul more than one cargo ship that would have to experimented with. Ok, on a related topic.... Are "Tug" type spaceships good for anything other than moving Orbital Installations around? I can certainly see the use of building such things (with the added Structural Integrity) at my HW and then towing them to other colony worlds in my system, as well as warp points. But IRL, tugs do alot of other things. Primarily, they help guide very large ships into and out of ports. I see no use for this function. However, Tugs also pull around very heavy cargo barges. In theory, I could see building an "Orbital Installation" that was nothing but a bunch of Cargo Bays, and then using Tug type ships to drag it around. The problem is that I dont see any In-game benefit from doing so, and in fact, it would be very inefficient. IRL, a tug would act like the cab of a big rig truck...pick up a fully loaded barge here, drop it off there, pick up another fully loaded one and haul it back. This would save alot of time since it wouldnt have to wait around while it was being loaded and unloaded. And would be cheaper than having to build engines into all those barges. But...with the way I think the naval movement system works, this wouldnt matter. Reorganize Naval orders are 0 AP actions...but so are Load and Offload Cargo. So it doesnt take any "game time" to move the cargo around. (Note: this strategy would change significantly if Load and Unload Cargo were 1 AP actions....then Tugs WOULD be useful.) Furthermore, you would have to pay the extra cost for the tug's Magnetic Grapples, making it more expensive than just building the engines into the "barge". And finally, unless I read it wrong..."Orbital Installations"...ie, ships without engines...CAN'T be taken through a WP, even if they are being towed by a warp capable ship. So...if I am right in all this...are tugs useful for anything other than hauling armored stations around your home system? (BTW...did I read it correctly that a Light Magnetic Grapple can only pull 600 tons? so in order to "tug" a large armored Orbital Installation would require a Tug with whole LOT of Magnetic Grapples...or upgraded Medium Magnetic Grapples, etc.) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughestrog Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 I'm not sure if 1 tug can haul more than one cargo ship that would have to experimented with. The haulage ratings are for tonnage pulled, not necessarily ships pulled, so as long as you're not trying to pull more tonnage than your towing limit, I think you should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-t-akua Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Are "Tug" type spaceships good for anything other than moving Orbital Installations around? That is what they are used for. Primarily, they help guide very large ships into and out of ports. In SNROTE this is not a function of tugs. They are just ships with Grapples or Tractor Beams. (BTW...did I read it correctly that a Light Magnetic Grapple can only pull 600 tons? so in order to "tug" a large armored Orbital Installation would require a Tug with whole LOT of Magnetic Grapples...or upgraded Medium Magnetic Grapples, etc.) That is correct. I would spend some research and get Light Tractor Beam if you are concerned. They wil haul 1500T per and Medium pulls 6000 T. If you plan to use a lot of Tugs, this is a way of reducing the number you ahve to build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted March 1, 2006 Report Share Posted March 1, 2006 Continuing with the thread hi-jack to "Tugs" ... Tractor Beams and Magnetic Grapples are also considered "weapons", so your "fleet" of tugs can be conscripted into your Homeworld Defence Fleet, in a pinch. FWIW, -SK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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