Hello and Question

[Galreth]

I am not sure he is not. He may not be posting but he does visit these boards from time to time (last time was Sunday 1/22 at 12:54 PM) and he did attack The Romans after he stated he was quitting. With MMB I have learned its the actions that count though I agree that he did add a lot of colo(u)r to the game.

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And his former empires have been active for several turns...so you be the judge.

[WKE235]

I am not sure he is not. He may not be posting but he does visit these boards from time to time (last time was Sunday 1/22 at 12:54 PM) and he did attack The Romans after he stated he was quitting. With MMB I have learned its the actions that count though I agree that he did add a lot of colo(u)r to the game.

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And his former empires have been active for several turns...so you be the judge.

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As someone who used to have regular contact with MMB ... I have not heard from him in a long time. I do know that when he quit, he disengaged himself over many turns from his empires. One I took control of (The Colony). As for the others, as far as I know he got them all set-up with build queues and the like that might serve to make the HW's more difficult to take, and then dropped.

 

Still .. MMB was crafty and cunning (and based on how he had The Colony organized, very good at the planning aspects of this game). It wouldn't surprise me if he is running things for one of the old empires still, and doing it silently. Since I was in a long running fight with NSI and still never deterimed if the empire was player or AI run, anything is possible.

[ali-t-akua]

Since I was in a long running fight with NSI and still never deterimed if the empire was player or AI run, anything is possible.

 

WKE, has that war ceased? I found your posts entertaining and if it has stopped, I am sorry that it has.

[Laserwolf]

My knowledge about the PA-MMB affiliation:

 

These are the facts as I know of them:

 

1)  Darrin Anderson started the PA.  He was on a mission to find as many old SN players he could get a hold of and build a strong team of players.  He and I talked for several hours before the formation of the PA and even visisted face to face.  I agreed to give Darrin the technology list I had at the time as a sign of good faith and good luck.  He invited me to join the PA but I was reluctant because of my existing affiliations.

    I attended the first PA chat meeting and was very impressed with the character and enthusiasm of the alliance as a whole.  When the subject of sharing turn information came up, I knew I had to pull out in consideration of the other friendships I have in the game.  We parted ways very amicably...no hard feelings. 

 

2)  Norm made contact with my dropped position (Beulah Trading Company) and we followed up with a friendly phone call.  I have to say, Norm is a very bright guy who has good insights into the game and I enjoyed talking to him (as I enjoyed speaking with Darrin)  Through this conversation, I learned the practice of dropping positions and trading between players.  Most notably, between Norm and MMB (I think this was how their affiliation orginated.)    I was stunned to learn that several players had already done this for a myriad reasons I don't want to revisit.  This was, at the time, my only beef with the PA.  Looking back, I over-reacted and probably should have taken a deeeeep breath before responding the way I did.  My initial reactions carried over poorly with the Galactic Senate attempt and it was clear that PA was having a good time getting a reaction out of me (I probably deserved a fair share of browbeating.)  Water under the bridge.

 

3)  My good friend, Jim (Ed) Mooney, joined the game and affiliated with the PA.  He informed me that MMB had joined the PA.  Believe me, this was not big news to me.  MMB and I never had a beef....a few of my allies did....but not me.  Personally, I regret that he dropped so soon. I also discovered that something I told Darrin about something my brother suspected in a previous SN game was not well received by a certain PA member who, I hope, has dropped his pointless vendetta against me.  Ah the joys of misinformation and misunderstanding.    Consider the source, I say!  At this point, I presumed my relations with the PA were shot to hell, so I vanished from the banter and turned my attentions elsewhere.

 

4)  I met with several Denver area SN players near the holidays and Martin (MMB) was in attendance.  He never denied being part of the PA.  But, it was clear that MMB had his own agenda and circle of trusted friends apart from the PA. 

 

Martin, although despised by some, made the game more lively.  I sometimes hope to think he's still floating around, making a go at revenge.

 

The PA, although a bit jagged in how they represent themselves, enhance the game.  They've lost a couple weak positions but I'll be the first to surmise that the PA is far from dead.  They have positive relations with several non-PA members.  Its been whispered in a few circles that even Locklyn (notoriously anti-MMB) actively traded with a PA member and is able to separate the whole MMB/PA pile.

 

Galreth is more than justified in strutting around, to the victor go the spoils 

 

Now -- is it fair to hate the alliance if you hate a member of that alliance?  

 

Welcome to PBM!!!         

 

 

The bottom line:  The PA will have to live with their past, and restore their glory through a few victories of their own

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This is quite accurate. Now here's some more insight to help it make more sense:

 

1) Darrin did start the group, however he started it with his own personal agenda. He wanted to re-create his glory days of SN2 by pushing everyone's empires to be "Death Machines". He called it the The Death Machine Hierarchy, a focused effort to research his way to machinehood. Great for role playing I suppose, but it also required sharing turns, dictating diplomacy protocol, etc. Basically he was looking for a few players to play multiple positions they way he wanted them to be played. When election day came and the alliance member did not vote him in as leader. He then lied to the group, insisting that he had encountered Brad's position (Beulah) and that he was going to war and demanded that we all support him. We refused and revealed that we knew about his lies. In his fury, he promptly ransacked our database and deleted an enormous amount of info. We booted him out and he quit the game.

 

2) We decided to pick up all of his positions and continue playing them as "research positions" Each trying something odd on the research track or on defense designs, etc. just to see what would happen. They all suck pretty badly because they were not generalized enough. Imagine an empire that focused on colonization at the expanse of ship systems and armor research. Thats the kind of research worlds they became. All computers and species engineering makes for poor defenders. So word got back to us that Darrin had given his turn files to another group of players. Knowing that this effectively meant that their HW and surrounding systems were basically public knowledge, we considered them disposable. Sure enough, in time someone found a star in the turn results and came screaming straight into the HW's and wiped them out. Easy to do when you know the path. Thus fell Bashkar, then Clovers, no doubt his other 3 will go down soon as well. No big deal, they were used for what they were intended. So get a move on, we have some more ideas to test against the Diggers, Bene Geserit and the rest of you. Welcome back AJ.

 

3) Then came the infamous "empire trading" uproar. What began as simple thing gathered a life of its own. Like WKE, I played The Colony for a while. Oooops? did I say that? Does that mean that we know all about that position and how it is adjacent to WKE's orgiginal position such that now he has two empires working together? Of course we do. Is it a big deal? Nope. Martin got to play a position type that he wished he had started with and so did I. After all the uproar we traded back again. Not much longer after that he told us he was quitting and he left the PA. We've not heard from him since. So technically he was not PA when all this Valkor swordplay really got going. For you roleplayers out there, Eyre and Go'ald were never PA, only Colony was.

 

4) Then came Ed and friends. We miss them, it was a shame to see them go. I think he was Shadowlords, no idea what happened with them, dropped with Ed we assume.

Never heard of Tenticles tho. I had hoped that with Ed playing with us that Brad would have joined up, but no. Its a shame too, because I'm convinced that if he had we'd have been able to talk some sense into him about that Galactic Senate nonsense. You earned that one Brad.

 

A couple of whining types have taken to branding us as the bad guys. We're grey, always have been, always will be. Brad is exactly right about one thing tho. We do intend to win and are quite convinced of our ability to do so. And when one of you whiny aggressors so full of pride and boasting finally encounter one of the real PA, you'll be see why.

 

Now -- is it fair to hate the alliance if you hate a member of that alliance?

 

Sure it is, but we don't recommend it.

[Galreth]

So technically he was not PA when all this Valkor swordplay really got going. For you roleplayers out there, Eyre and Go'ald were never PA, only Colony was.

 

Now -- is it fair to hate the alliance if you hate a member of that alliance?  

 

Sure it is, but we don't recommend it.

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In the spirit of interglactic glasnost, seemingly breaking out everywhere, I'll clear a little air as well...

 

Valkor would not be so anti-PA if so many PA brethren had not fully supported MMB. It's ironic that your major point is that we've not met real PA, and yet PA members were happy to sanction MMB's actions, despite knowing apparently nothing of the actual facts. In addition, MMB advertised his PA membership and no voice was heard to dispute that...tacit confirmation to the rest of us of PA duplicity. So technically, the image you garnered during "all this Valkor swordplay" sounds like one you no longer want, but one you earned nonetheless. We don't blame you--it looked like a sure bet at the time, before a late Allied resurgence. Alliances are always happy to claim the victories, and create some distance in defeat.

 

Valkor policy is not to hate the alliance of a hated enemy, however, if the enemy's actions are sanctioned and no voice from his alliance is heard to distance the alliance from said action, then what more needs be said?

 

Lastly, we would give even you, Mr. Wolf, a fair shake if our ships happen to meet. We did the same for Ed Mooney's Shadowlords and Grayson despite their claim of membership in PA--and both violated their agreements. (Tentacles just decided to bypass all talk and move directly to MDD-filled warships without passing Go) In light of all the PA behind-the-scenes maneuvering, perhaps a little less subterfuge and little more cooperation would go a long way. Either way, we're happy to play the role of speedbump/hedgerow on your way to ultimate victory.

[Hughestrog]

....unhijaking between popcorn breaks .......

 

New players feel free to check out the newsletter (currently working on 4th issue)...you can find all issues in the thread floating around with SNROTE Reader in the title

 

All submissions welcome.

......back to our regular program  (which I find amusing).........

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Keep on drumming up the support Eternus!!!

[ali-t-akua]

Laserwolf, how does the PA define winning? I would think the likelihood of success of some definitions is nil but I would be interested to hear what "winning" is in SN:ROTE.

[AKO]

Winning means having fun and a surviving empire (in that order).

[EternusIV]

Winning is employing 100% of your population with hopes of eternal peace and the promise of endless colonization on ideal worlds!

 

/ducks

[Hughestrog]

Laserwolf, how does the PA define winning? I would think the likelihood of success of some definitions is nil but I would be interested to hear what "winning" is in SN:ROTE.

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Of course, there could be some, at present, only hinted at type of technology (warp point manipulation, etc) that would allow the subjugation of most of the galatic population.

 

Of course you could go the subtle way of domineering the Galaxy......

 

where is my last order from the Sabeli Ecok anyway.

[looker]

Winning means having fun and a surviving empire (in that order).

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I'm not sure the order even counts. It could be as much fun to survive as it is surviving to keep having fun....

 

At least that's one way to looker at it!

[ali-t-akua]

Winning means having fun and a surviving empire (in that order).

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I'm not sure the order even counts. It could be as much fun to survive as it is surviving to keep having fun....

 

At least that's one way to looker at it!

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I agree. I am not sure the PA defines it this way but I am very interested to hear their definintion.

[hobknob]

This is a game. You win if you feel your time and money are well spent. When you no longer can feel this way then you move on to something else that meets those requirements.

 

So, if you are still playing then you must be having fun.

 

[Laserwolf]

Valkor would not be so anti-PA if so many PA brethren had not fully supported MMB.  It's ironic that your major point is that we've not met real PA, and yet PA members were happy to sanction MMB's actions, despite knowing apparently nothing of the actual facts.  In addition, MMB advertised his PA membership and no voice was heard to dispute that...tacit confirmation to the rest of us of PA duplicity.    So technically, the image you garnered during "all this Valkor swordplay" sounds like one you no longer want, but one you earned nonetheless.  We don't blame you--it looked like a sure bet at the time, before a late Allied resurgence.  Alliances are always happy to claim the victories, and create some distance in defeat.

 

Lastly, we would give even you, Mr. Wolf, a fair shake if our ships happen to meet.    We did the same for Ed Mooney's Shadowlords and Grayson despite their claim of membership in PA--and both violated their agreements. (Tentacles just decided to bypass all talk and move directly to MDD-filled warships without passing Go)  In light of all the PA behind-the-scenes maneuvering, perhaps a little less subterfuge and little more cooperation would go a long way.  Either way, we're happy to play the role of speedbump/hedgerow on your way to ultimate victory.

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Of course we supported his efforts. Martin was PA. He was accepted by the membership and was in. He wasn't part of the beginning core PA, but was in nonetheless. Had any of us actually be near him enough to support him with fleets, we'd have done that too. As it was, the best we could do was cheerlead. Just because he roleplayed a pirate didn't matter to us.

 

The image we have garnered is the one we have created and we are comfortable with it. The image you and other whiny types are assigning us is a different story.

 

And we accept your offer, a speedbump you shall be.

[Galreth]

And we accept your offer, a speedbump you shall be.

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...ah, so civil talk is over. Copy.

 

You PA types know where to find us...it's not like your ships haven't been there before. May you fare better.