Somethings Up?

[SargonKingOfSlith]

Locklyn,

 

I think that Hobknob is refering to his recent conversation with me.

 

While I believe that your 4000 tons ships are of significant value.  (I wish one of my possitions in particular had about a thousand of them right now.)  I think that they are not strictly applicable to any discussion of "Screen Swarm" strategy and tactics.  Let me go over the highlights of my discussion with Hobknob:

 

Enlightening Warship Design Principles:

A.) The primary value of small ships is that they can be produced in large quantities.

B.) The primary value of large ships is that they can incorporate certain capabilities not practical in smaller designs.  Primarily, this means transwarp drives, but can also include large weapons systems, cloaking devices, stasis field generators, and other large scale equipment.

C.) Any capability that can be built into a given ship can be built into a larger ship at the same or greater level of efficiency.

D.) In general, therefore, when the primary design goal is any quality other than large quantities of ships, larger designs are superior to small designs.

 

Enlightening Defensive Principles:

A.) When faced with a firepower threat, there are three ways to remain in combat long enough to eliminate your enemy.  One can create a hybrid defense using any mix of these three defensive strategies:

.....1.) Have the durability to survive his firepower directly.  (Armor, shields)

.....2.) Render his firepower partially ineffective.  (Directed defensive systems, battle order placement)

.....3.) Cause him to waste his firepower.  (Gross overkill of numerous small screens)

B.) The third option is the only defensive strategy that requires, or is even enhanced by, large numbers of small ships.  Large numbers of small screens are therefore justified only in so far as this option is emphasized.

C.) By far, the most important quality in ship design when using option 3 is cheapness of manufacture.  This, so that more of them can be produced, creating more opportunities for overkill.

Additional Note: As technology increases, options 1 and 2 become more and more practical, while option 3 becomes more and more difficult.

 

A note on “Heavy” Screens:  Some advocate for more robust screen designs, especially with advanced armor technologies, designed to withstand large amounts of enemy fire before being destroyed.  Under close examination, however, they are actually moving away from defensive strategy 3, in favor of strategy 1.  As such, large numbers of very small screens should not be built under this philosophy.  Instead, one should build a relatively small number of larger “damage sponges,” also sometimes referred to as “Assault” ships.  (See Enlightening Warship Design Principles.)

 

General Hierarchical Principles of Screen Design:

A.) Always include minimal equipment necessary for the ship to function in its mission.  One example may be a jump drive.  (In some cases, it may be necessary to include certain ship capabilities in order to avoid large numbers of screens degrading the performance of the war fleet, taken as a whole.  Examples of this may include extra engines in order to avoid pulling down the fleet speed, or adding a small amount of fire control equipment to avoid a cumulative decrease in the total fleet fire control rating.)

B.) Except where it conflicts with A, smaller ships are always better, because smaller ships are easier to produce.  In the overwhelming majority of cases, no screen design should exceed 1,000 tons.

C.) Except where it conflicts with A or B, equipment cheaply manufactured is always better than hard to build equipment.  For example, under most circumstances, armor is cheaper to build than computers.

D.) Except where it conflicts with A, B or C, try to include equipment that will augment fleet efficiency in some critical way, while the ship survives.  Examples could include cheaply built space weapons, extra fuel tankage, or even armor.  (Note that in keeping with principle C, the primary value of armor would not be in its ability to absorb hits, but in its cheapness of manufacture.)

 

TErnest

Arcane Services, Inc.

Imperial Demonic Envelopement

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Very well put. I especially agree with your point about using a screen ship to make your enemy waste points of damage. If your enemy is doing 100,000 damage per glob, and your screen ships have 1,000 integrity, then he is wasting 99,000 points of damage on each of your screens.

 

I have one thing to add. Needlers and Space Mines are very small weapons. They can be researched up to high tech levels and still fit them on a 1Kton ship. I wish I had thought of that back when I made my choices on what weapons categories I was going to persue.

[EternusIV]

I like the idea of weapons in screens but I shied away from it only out of habit.

 

My original thinking was: "they are going to die anyway...so why put anything valuable on them?" I'd rather lose a chunk of iron and maybe an engine that anything that uses something more complex.

 

I'm revisiting those old thoughts in preference of building Screenvettes as others suggest

 

Trading for better tech, and fire control is still the strongest solution I can see

 

/shrug

[ali-t-akua]

I like the idea of weapons in screens but I shied away from it only out of habit.

 

My original thinking was:  "they are going to die anyway...so why put anything valuable on them?"    I'd rather lose a chunk of iron and maybe an engine that anything that uses something more complex.

 

I'm revisiting those old thoughts in preference of building Screenvettes as others suggest

 

Trading for better tech, and fire control is still the strongest solution I can see

 

/shrug

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I use weapons on my screens. I have a lot of junk laying around and so use it in my screens and surface fortresses. I figure that you might as well give them something to shoot back with and it adds to the globs of damage and so may help in bringing the bigger ships down quickly.

[Locklyn]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can take a look at adding those in somewhere.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Great Pete! And will this include defensive divisors as well? Any ETA on this and the changes to defensive systems you talked about in the combat draft?

 

 

As for screens I always put weapons on them, usually obsolete or EXPL finds, I figure like one of my older sentry screen fleets that consists of 800 1000 ton ships ie before I started with the 4000 ton concept, they carry a 100 ton of weaponry each which still equals 80000 tons of weaponry firing when the enemy comes a sailing...

 

 

Cheers

/Locklyn

[TErnest]

I like the idea of weapons in screens but I shied away from it only out of habit.

 

My original thinking was:  "they are going to die anyway...so why put anything valuable on them?"    I'd rather lose a chunk of iron and maybe an engine that anything that uses something more complex.

 

I'm revisiting those old thoughts in preference of building Screenvettes as others suggest

 

Trading for better tech, and fire control is still the strongest solution I can see

 

/shrug

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I use weapons on my screens. I have a lot of junk laying around and so use it in my screens and surface fortresses. I figure that you might as well give them something to shoot back with and it adds to the globs of damage and so may help in bringing the bigger ships down quickly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There is just something about a warship without a weapon that offends something deep in my core. Just does not feel right. And screens are indeed warships, even those more designed to die than to fight. So, I usually do put some sort of slingshot or pointy stick on my screens. This is a great use for EXPL finds. (You cannot get cheaper to build than "free!")

 

And for those with cold tech weapons, a 500 ton Condenser Beam fits nicely on a 1,000 ton screen. When you consider how easy it is to come by Ghuran Demonblood and Gemstones, and how cheaply one can come up with Improved Refined Crystals with Orbital Crystal Refineries, it is hard to find a cheaper piece of equipment to manufacture. Very similar case with some Coherent Beam weapons, and Bore Torpedos, too.

 

TErnest