WKE235 Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Well it seems that "the Evil One" has won afterall. Goal for MMB <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh this is just great. Now I guess we'll all have to teach our cudlings in school the MMB anthem to sing every morning. And then there's all that work implanting the Ident-a-track (patent pending) chips in everyone's cranial cavities. Gee Tedric, can't you stay in long enough to throw all your last ships at MMB in one last glorious blast of death and destruction. And save us all from the singing and chips? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> We are great! We are wonderful! We are MMB! Yo ho, yo ho! We are great! We are wonderful! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You sir are no Capt. Jack Sparrow. I'd be willing to grant that you a similar to the yellow bits of material stuck between the teeth of the Kraken. Or perhaps on a generous day I could equate you with an undead Monkey. But a true pirate Captain .. that would be an insult to the pirates. Sigh .. where are all the at least good pirates when you need them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LenLorek Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 ... Requiem In Pace Ur-Lord Tedric and the entire Conclave of the Star League Stabbed in the back........ Also - Clan Elder Giff'ar and the Nest of the Valar'i <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I guess my attitude to games is somewhat different, as I used to play the boardgame Diplomacy about thirty years ago, then moved on to Diplomacy as PBM, and so I started PBM gaming well used to the idea of being back-stabbed by friends and allies. Even in RTG's Victory! I have found not just back-stabbing friends and allies but also selfish and incompetent friends and allies, which caused me to waste game resources as well as RL time and money. But I carried on playing despite these setbacks, as I enjoy the game. And that, I think, is the crux of the matter -- if you enjoy the game enough, then any setbacks will cause a shrug of the shoulders, a re-planning exercise, and a re-organisation of resources over time. If you don't enjoy the game enough, then it won't. The Ur-Lord has been one of the assets of SNROTE, of that there is no doubt. It is sad that he is quitting. As MMB and others have discovered, it is almost impossible to knock out another player who actively defends his Empire, even when the attackers outnumber the defender by 2 to 1. However, if the defending player gives up, then the attacker(s) will easily win. And I guess the Star League will now be an easy target for its arch-enemy, MMB. Does anyone want to open a book on how long it will take? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKO Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 I am a quite regular Diplomacy player too, and always keep an eye on allies. That keeps alliances healthy, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradigm Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 I agree with much of what Flagritz wrote. I do not agree with dropping a long running PBM game due to a few setbacks. Empires have to deal with problems as well as successes. It is a detriment to all players when people quite playing as soon as something doesn't go their way. Obviously everyone is free to do as they choose. I just think it is a shame to quit playing over something like this. Instead put all 25 research centers in to the techs you are lacking. If Pete gives out "Christmas" SRP's again this year those can give you a boost. Before long you will have advanced considerably in those areas. You won't have maxed out every branch of the tech tree, but many many players that are not in alliances won't have either. Play the hand that was dealt you to the best of your abilities. Life isn't fair either. I would like to see you keep playing, but if you quit, I wish you well and will keep my eyes open for "Ur-Lord Tedric" in future games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Well, I think the pace of SNROTE raises the stakes considerably on every stab. I can completely empathize with ULT and if the version of events is close to how WKE explains it, then he got S-C-R-E-W-E-D. As a long time Diplomacy player myself, I certainly understand the normalcy of backstabbing in these games, but with SNROTE I don't think its that simple. A diplomacy game lasts an evening of play, where you can rebuild your reputation over a beer that evening or in the worst case, after a week of begging and apology. When you get backstabbed in what has been accepted as an "empire building" game that takes *years* to do anything meaningful, the stakes are MUCH MUCH higher. Even getting stabbed in Victory! cannot stack up to the severity of a stab in SNROTE. A new Victory! game resets every month or so and you can seek vengenace -- with an actual bonafide opportunity to exact such revenge, within a reasonable time period. How can ULT exact revenge in SNROTE? Oh man, it would take YEARS, if at all! His best shot would be to pick up a dropped position close to the fray....starting over would isolate him from those that did him in. Besides, it sounds like some of his misfortune resulted from people *dropping* the game...and thats a whole other issue. I think ULTs situation is different than the Shathar-Gjorhaan thing, too. It sounds like ULT was plowing forward on the same page with his betrayors for a very long time, as where the roleplayers had a big clash without a solid treaty, that finally resolved itself favorably (good for them) In other words, I don't think we can disregard ULTs feelings of betrayal. It sucks, bad. And again, I can only count my blessings for having trusted allies in my region that would never do such a thing. ULT- Fight them, man. Make them pay. Do that cheesy screen ship thing and build forts upon forts. Streamline for Tckon and focus on one weapon line. 16 centers on armor, 9 on weapons or whatever....bring in your colony ships and trade ships for safety and boost your shipyard production. Give them hell! You said it yourself, you've spent 1000s of dollars and 100s of man hours....pretend somebody was trying to rob you of that in one fell swoop...would you stand there and take it? Or defend yourself? Unload all the intel you can into public channels. Make them hurt at every single corner and expose them all. You may have neighbors you haven't met, yet. Perhaps you'll find some sympathy and support from them. Make it so that the next time they decide to stab you, they remember how painful it was to take what is rightfully yours. Good luck....and I'm sorry if my advice is 100% off the mark if the stab isn't as severe as advertised. You'll be terribly missed, bud. If you do go, thank you for the years of gamesmanship and decency that you've shown others. You have nothing to be ashamed of, for it is not whether you win or lose... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Uriel Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 ULT- Fight them, man. Make them pay. Do that cheesy screen ship thing and build forts upon forts. Streamline for Tckon and focus on one weapon line. 16 centers on armor, 9 on weapons or whatever....bring in your colony ships and trade ships for safety and boost your shipyard production. Give them hell! You said it yourself, you've spent 1000s of dollars and 100s of man hours....pretend somebody was trying to rob you of that in one fell swoop...would you stand there and take it? Or defend yourself? Unload all the intel you can into public channels. Make them hurt at every single corner and expose them all. You may have neighbors you haven't met, yet. Perhaps you'll find some sympathy and support from them. Make it so that the next time they decide to stab you, they remember how painful it was to take what is rightfully yours. Good luck....and I'm sorry if my advice is 100% off the mark if the stab isn't as severe as advertised. You'll be terribly missed, bud. If you do go, thank you for the years of gamesmanship and decency that you've shown others. You have nothing to be ashamed of, for it is not whether you win or lose... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Now this is a sentiment I can agree with. FIGHT!!! If for no other reason then to defend your own!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TErnest Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 I am a quite regular Diplomacy player too, and always keep an eye on allies. That keeps alliances healthy, I suppose. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I used to play Diplomacy in years past. I quickly learned that my faith in human nature could not tolerate more than about one game every six months. TErnest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKO Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 If you compared what happened to ULT to real life, it is a bit when a country that is an important trading partner suddenly has a coup d'etat and the new ruler does not want to trade with you anymore. Let's say this would happen to Saudi Arabia and the US would need another supplier for oil. That would immensely hurt the US economy (and that of Saudi Arabia), but would the US just surrender? Or the president would step down? I don't think so! The US would put up a fight and at the minimum start to invest into new technology to overcome the loss of supply. I can understand the feeling of disappointment of ULT, but it is also a consequence of focussing on one branch of technology only and relying on others for all other technologies. ULT took the benefits of a strong cooperation and trade with others (and thus had a big advantage on those who do not cooperate), but when he is faced with the drawbacks of that strategy, he quits. I can understand the pain of having this happen to you, but as stated above: put your chin up and fight for your empire! That's what the URS would do, also after being abandoned by their partners. The URS has never completely ignored any of the important research areas (weapons, defense systems, armour, shields, engines, army capability, economic progress etc), making sure we are always able to stand on our own. We definitely prefer trading with our neighbours, but we will never fully rely on a key technology to be provided by partners only. Reading this thread, maybe a wise strategy. To finish: I would miss ULT on the boards and would hate to see him leave the game. Get over the pain, and show that your empire is worth it to build it further! It will take quite a while to get to the same technology levels without trade, but still, there are many others facing the same issue and they continue standing their ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKO Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 I am a quite regular Diplomacy player too, and always keep an eye on allies. That keeps alliances healthy, I suppose. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I used to play Diplomacy in years past. I quickly learned that my faith in human nature could not tolerate more than about one game every six months. TErnest <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I play at least once a month, in the NL Diplomacy competition and also compete in the NL championship and international events. I can recommend it, and you get used to being stabbed too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Uriel Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 If you compared what happened to ULT to real life, it is a bit when a country that is an important trading partner suddenly has a coup d'etat and the new ruler does not want to trade with you anymore. Let's say this would happen to Saudi Arabia and the US would need another supplier for oil. That would immensely hurt the US economy (and that of Saudi Arabia), but would the US just surrender? Or the president would step down? I don't think so! The US would put up a fight and at the minimum start to invest into new technology to overcome the loss of supply. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> We would also be thankful for our largest energy supplier, Canada! Actually, I was thinking the same thing regarding UL's empire. I think I can even put it in an Honorverse perspective. Your government, thinking to stream-line your economy and eliminate extra work, collaborates with close allies to trade war-goods and provide mutual assistance, etc. However, this dependence upon an ally can really screw you if, like the Erewonese, decide to change sides and take your teck knowledge with them. Your enemy can essentially overthrow it's government (or change RL players) and now want to be friends. I can understand the desire to just give up, I deal with it occasionally and I haven't found anything of interest. However, I also think this is a wonderful opportunity for some wonderful gaming and roleplaying. An empire brought low by political intrigue, lack of naval forsight (tech research) and changed alliances! I believe this is the situation of the Star Kingdom of Manticore in the Honorverse right before "At All Costs" begins. Don't give up the ship! Lord Uriel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Having run into some of the Ur-Lords ship (which have some size) I can understand the treachery. if he has focused on non weapons and non computers (battle ships with MK III computers???) then it would take YEARS to catch up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTGPete Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 I am a quite regular Diplomacy player too, and always keep an eye on allies. That keeps alliances healthy, I suppose. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If it were not for the original set of Diplomacy, wooden pieces and all, that my father gave me when I was very young, I'm not sure that I would ever have gotten so interested in wargames of any kind. After playing more games of Dip over the years than I care to remember, I've learned the value of being stabbed. It hurts, but one does learn something about allies and treachery. I've been stabbed many times in Diplomacy, and quite a few of those times I've gone on to victory. A treacherous ally deserves to be conquered, grrr. In Diplomacy, at least, it's a question of dealing with setbacks and inflicting as much pain as possible on your mortal enemies (former allies?) to teach everyone involved not to ever mess with you again..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ixitixl Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Ur Lord Tedric Just think, if you stay in the game then you have tech that you can spend your free SRPs that are given out for Christmas!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laserwolf Posted August 4, 2006 Report Share Posted August 4, 2006 Group hug replies aside, with Tedric gone, their once grand alliance is even more fragile and open to conquering. More for us. Bye Tedric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locklyn Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 Not sure ULT still visits the boards but I will convey the essence of your posts when we have dinner come monday in Oxford in case he doesn't. Cheers /Locklyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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