Sha'thar of the Gosht Kohr Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 The universe is huge, and there are undoubtably many more positions out there than we know. The game remains fresh and interesting enough, so I doubt we need worry yet about an end-game. And of course, since this is an open-ended game, only the players will decide just what and when an end-game is! When I started this game, I too set just one "victory condition" for myself. If the end of the game arrives and I still feel justified in entering 40 orders a turn, it will be a victory for this newbie to PBM games! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WKE235 Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 Imagine your Lebanon and the UN "helps" you by putting 5,000 UN blue-helmets on your southern border. Those Blue helmets do alot of observing but they don't prevent Israeli commandos crossing the border at will kidnaping and assasinating people, force Israel to comply with UN resolutions to return land, give back prisoners held for many years. Now that fighting has broken out, how much help are the blue helmets to Lebanon? Exactly zero, they don't stop Israel killing civilians and bombing civilian structures, And yet the UN continues to talk a good game about cease fires and security measures. They contribute nothing to the stability of the region, They sympathise with the bully and demand Lebanon stop hostilities while they are the victim. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Imagine your Israel and the UN "helps" you by putting 5,000 UN blue-helmets in southern Lebanon. Those Blue helmets do alot of observing but they don't prevent Hezbollah commandos crossing the border attempting to kidnaping and assasinate Israeli citizens, end the firing of mortors across the border into Israeli lands, and stop shipments of arms and explosives over the border to suicide bombers. Now that fighting has broken out, how much help are the blue helmets to Israel? Exactly zero. They refuse to stop the firing of rockets from Lebanon into Israeli cities and towns and stand meekly by while Hezbollah places arms in schools and hospitals endangering the Lebanese. And yet the UN continues to talk a good game about cease fires and security measures. They contribute nothing to the stability of the region, They sympathise with the terrorists and demand Israel cease defending itself or its citizens from attacks by hostile forces who have sworn they will not rest until the nation of Israel and all its people are wiped from the map. Sigh....... I guess all we can agree to here is the UN is pretty damn useless. Oh, and maybe folks with religious views and beliefs (no matter which faith it is) just cannot be reasoned with one way or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodookus Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 Oh my gosh, this is so friggin entertaining. I know that I feel fully reimbursed for all the $$$ and time spent playing this game. Not of course that I haven’t enjoyed the game itself but this. It’s more than money could ever pay for!!!! When I posted to this thread a mere 4 days ago, Ur Lord Tedric’s retirement appeared to be a dignified way to bow out of the game, unlike the Shathar/Gjorhaan debacle. He conjured images of a trust betrayed, of backstabbing and tantrums and of his ultimate honor and loyalty by bowing out of SN:ROTE completely for fear of abusing trust that had been bestowed on him!! I really almost had a tear in my eye. Not really but deal with the hyperbole. I had the ‘obvious’ image of the honorable and loyal ULT opening up his email only to find that an ally had attached him and taken his HW triggering this decision to pack it in after 4 years of playing. Then, the plot thickens. Two days later, ULT posts to shed some ‘light’ on this situation. The Star League is not lost, the empire remains intact. HOORAY!! However, ULT stands by his decision to leave due to the fact that the Star League is now ‘unplayable’, BOO!!! The efforts of the Star League were dumped on by an uncaring and terse ally, BOOOO again. What horrendous evil could have done this? Yet what a shining example; ULT maintaining his integrity to ride off into the sunset guarding the sanctity of the information entrusted to him, never to play SN:ROTE again. High drama. Enter the ‘VILLAIN” two days later with his side of the story. How enlightening it is. ‘Galreth the Evil’ ™ , “Galreth the Backstabber” ™, ‘Galreth the Betrayer’ ™ steps forth into the light to admit he, yes he, is the offender. Hey wait, that’s not what a bad guy is supposed to do. He’s supposed to be skulking under a toadstool somewhere, rubbing his claws or perhaps tentacles together and plotting the demise of the universe. Anyway, GtB ™ apparently has real life considerations to handle, things like military service, a family, relocation have taken their toll. So much so that running 4 setups is untenable. GtB decides to drop the 3 empires currently at war and concentrate what time he has on the one not at war. What gall! What nerve! How uncaring! GtB has decided not to maintain the empire(s) that have furnished UrLord Tedric with unmentioned goodies that makes the Star League tenable. Truly the definition of a back-stabber! And yet, there is more. All along, ULT has had GtB as a shield, fighting his enemies. And ULT has contributed next to nothing to the cause, squeezing out a few tons of ships the past two years. Now that ULT has to put up or shut up he decides to take the high ground and bow out. My god ULT, why didn’t you just leave? What was the point of the ‘backstabber’ accusations? What was the point of the ‘For words like honor, loyalty and integrity mean something to me…” speech? Particularly in light of the other side of the story which you had to know would come out at some point. Geeze, I can’t wait for the next one <Cackling gleefully while rubbing claws together under a toadstool> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WKE235 Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 So in the wake of the demands of 4 empires that I ran, the real life demands on my time and attention, and the 2 years of waiting for any meaningful allied assistance at the front, I made the call to cut down to 1 empire--the one taking the least amount of time to care for <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Most excellent. Tedric gone and now 3 of Galreth's. Soon more to follow, no doubt. End result. We win. Our primary goal from the beginning. This result is inevitable because we have what no other alliance has. Complete and total trust between us resulting in phenomenal intelligence and economic power. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Complete and total trust? Riiigggghhhht. So do you mind explaining how a group with such phenomenal intelligence and economic power has lost so much? Could it be a lack of cooperation between players? Maybe players ratting out information about their fellows to the enemy so they become more important in the group? Ever wonder how some battles just don't go as planned? Or how the pathway through the stars seems like such an open book from time to time for your enemies? Well, use some of that "phenomenal" intelligence. And maybe you'll figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Uriel Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 As I think about it, this situation is a lot this... Imagine you are Israel and the UN "helps" you by putting 5,000 UN blue-helmets on your northern border. Those blue-helmets will do a lot of observing and a lot of talking while Hezbollah builds up to the point of being a very real threat. Now that the fighting has broken out (or for that matter before hostilities occurred), how much help are the blue-helmets to Israeli security? Exactly zero. And yet, the UN continues to talk a good game about cease fires and security measures. However, they contribute nothing to Israeli security, while demanding Israel comply with all UN demands. Tedric plays an excellent blue-helmet/UN role. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Close but I think you meant... Imagine your Lebanon and the UN "helps" you by putting 5,000 UN blue-helmets on your southern border. Those Blue helmets do alot of observing but they don't prevent Israeli commandos crossing the border at will kidnaping and assasinating people, force Israel to comply with UN resolutions to return land, give back prisoners held for many years. Now that fighting has broken out, how much help are the blue helmets to Lebanon? Exactly zero, they don't stop Israel killing civilians and bombing civilian structures, And yet the UN continues to talk a good game about cease fires and security measures. They contribute nothing to the stability of the region, They sympathise with the bully and demand Lebanon stop hostilities while they are the victim. Tedric plays an excellent blue-helmet/UN role. I think thats a bit more accurate :] Miltiades <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Flagritz, Before this becomes a situation where we all quote various news reports and who fired at who with how many of what, and who is armed with what equipment, I think we should leave the Middle East situation in the Middle East. I once made the mistake of turning a post political during our last elections. It was in poor taste on my part. However, if you do wish to engage in a Mid East discussion, I would be happy to do so off the forums in private correspondence. Lord Uriel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodookus Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 All right, cut it out right now. If you guys insist on talking politics and current events, put it in another post or preferably another site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 I completely second the idea on halting Middle East references in regards to this topic Wow..... I have the same respect for Valkor as I do ULT, as I've had the luxury of standing on the outside of their wartorn sector of space and processing both of their submissions to the Reader. But even 'peacenik' editors have to pick sides eventually. If forced to choose, I would have to side with Valkor if the 'backstabbing' only amounts to Valkor dropping positions next to ULT. A true backstab - in my book - is one where your ally publishes vital intel or shows up at your Homeworld with 'Z' orders, unannounced. I'm certain there are a few other violations that could be added...but dropping an allied empire certainly should some NOT qualify. Is there time left for ULT to take a deep breath and realize its just a game and not take things - like dropping a position for personal reasons - so personally? Are we expected to marry our allies these days? I mean, hey I like Tony and Will but c'mon... If either one of those guys dropped I'd be sad, but, I'd consider taking over their positions to maintain the stability of the region before calling them 'backstabbers' ULT has an option.... Pick up the dropped Valkor empire(s)! If you aren't willing to shoulder the financial burden of the dropped empire, or face the music or trouble said dropped empire is experiencing on the warfront, how could you *possibly* expect an ally saddled with real life obligations to do the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Uriel Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 I completely second the idea on halting Middle East references in regards to this topic Wow..... I have the same respect for Valkor as I do ULT, as I've had the luxury of standing on the outside of their wartorn sector of space and processing both of their submissions to the Reader. But even 'peacenik' editors have to pick sides eventually. If forced to choose, I would have to side with Valkor if the 'backstabbing' only amounts to Valkor dropping positions next to ULT. A true backstab - in my book - is one where your ally publishes vital intel or shows up at your Homeworld with 'Z' orders, unannounced. I'm certain there are a few other violations that could be added...but dropping an allied empire certainly should some NOT qualify. Is there time left for ULT to take a deep breath and realize its just a game and not take things - like dropping a position for personal reasons - so personally? Are we expected to marry our allies these days? I mean, hey I like Tony and Will but c'mon... If either one of those guys dropped I'd be sad, but, I'd consider taking over their positions to maintain the stability of the region before calling them 'backstabbers' ULT has an option.... Pick up the dropped Valkor empire(s)! If you aren't willing to shoulder the financial burden of the dropped empire, or face the music or trouble said dropped empire is experiencing on the warfront, how could you *possibly* expect an ally saddled with real life obligations to do the same? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I will third my own request, and comment that sometimes it takes a big sunflower to think outside the box like Eternus has. There ya go UL. I'd also like to add that if Galreth's version of events is accurate (Galreth, are you by any chance a infantryman?), I have to support him. Of course, I also wish he would have stuck with the defending position and given a little back to the "bad guys (very loosely defined)." Lord Uriel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTGPete Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 ULT has an option....Pick up the dropped Valkor empire(s)! This is perfectly acceptable from RTG's position, with the caveat that for one player to pick up position(s) previously owned by another player, that other player needs to okay the pickup(s). This would solve the technology-trading issue, but of course the involved players would need to come to agreement to okay the empire transfers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodookus Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 My $$$ is on no response from ULT and him maintaining his 'integrity' by not taking up another position for fear of abusing the info he has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagritz Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 Flagritz,Before this becomes a situation where we all quote various news reports and who fired at who with how many of what, and who is armed with what equipment, I think we should leave the Middle East situation in the Middle East. I once made the mistake of turning a post political during our last elections. It was in poor taste on my part. However, if you do wish to engage in a Mid East discussion, I would be happy to do so off the forums in private correspondence. Lord Uriel <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi :] Apologies, Im Lebanese Greek so I just couldnt help myself when that post came on... we all know whats going on in the world, most people are smart enough to work out the truth. I play these games to escape the real world for a bit so Im all for keeping this stuff of the forum. It was a bad example to be posted and Im just as bad to have replied, so apologies guys, Miltiades :] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagritz Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 Oh my gosh, this is so friggin entertaining. I know that I feel fully reimbursed for all the $$$ and time spent playing this game. Not of course that I haven’t enjoyed the game itself but this. It’s more than money could ever pay for!!!! When I posted to this thread a mere 4 days ago, Ur Lord Tedric’s retirement appeared to be a dignified way to bow out of the game, unlike the Shathar/Gjorhaan debacle. He conjured images of a trust betrayed, of backstabbing and tantrums and of his ultimate honor and loyalty by bowing out of SN:ROTE completely for fear of abusing trust that had been bestowed on him!! I really almost had a tear in my eye. Not really but deal with the hyperbole. I had the ‘obvious’ image of the honorable and loyal ULT opening up his email only to find that an ally had attached him and taken his HW triggering this decision to pack it in after 4 years of playing. Then, the plot thickens. Two days later, ULT posts to shed some ‘light’ on this situation. The Star League is not lost, the empire remains intact. HOORAY!! However, ULT stands by his decision to leave due to the fact that the Star League is now ‘unplayable’, BOO!!! The efforts of the Star League were dumped on by an uncaring and terse ally, BOOOO again. What horrendous evil could have done this? Yet what a shining example; ULT maintaining his integrity to ride off into the sunset guarding the sanctity of the information entrusted to him, never to play SN:ROTE again. High drama. Enter the ‘VILLAIN” two days later with his side of the story. How enlightening it is. ‘Galreth the Evil’ ™ , “Galreth the Backstabber” ™, ‘Galreth the Betrayer’ ™ steps forth into the light to admit he, yes he, is the offender. Hey wait, that’s not what a bad guy is supposed to do. He’s supposed to be skulking under a toadstool somewhere, rubbing his claws or perhaps tentacles together and plotting the demise of the universe. Anyway, GtB ™ apparently has real life considerations to handle, things like military service, a family, relocation have taken their toll. So much so that running 4 setups is untenable. GtB decides to drop the 3 empires currently at war and concentrate what time he has on the one not at war. What gall! What nerve! How uncaring! GtB has decided not to maintain the empire(s) that have furnished UrLord Tedric with unmentioned goodies that makes the Star League tenable. Truly the definition of a back-stabber! And yet, there is more. All along, ULT has had GtB as a shield, fighting his enemies. And ULT has contributed next to nothing to the cause, squeezing out a few tons of ships the past two years. Now that ULT has to put up or shut up he decides to take the high ground and bow out. My god ULT, why didn’t you just leave? What was the point of the ‘backstabber’ accusations? What was the point of the ‘For words like honor, loyalty and integrity mean something to me…” speech? Particularly in light of the other side of the story which you had to know would come out at some point. Geeze, I can’t wait for the next one <Cackling gleefully while rubbing claws together under a toadstool> <{POST_SNAPBACK}> <g> wow I have to go with jodookus, summed up perfectly and very entertaining! I feel my support for ULT was a little premature, Im now totally backing poor Galreth, he carried that alliance! :} Miltiades :] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 Pete - I would have issues with ULT picking up any of Valkor's positions. I remember getting HAMMERED for trading the Colony by this very board. As to Valkor/Galreth dropping....It's been an awesome 2 years of fighting. Rome was 6 pulse (not turns) from falling and he moved against me before I could jump in. For those not involved it's a NIGHTMARE of coordination. 5 home worlds providing pieces and parts for a war machine. 200+ star systems (on my side) to coordinate. Minor mistakes causing immense debacles (moving equipment to the front when the second ship leaves before the first OCs and there is a 1 way involved). I have little recollection as to why Galreth and I are fighting but it has been fun. I dropped for 6 months when I started my business and I can only honor a military person (being an ex army captain with a combat tour). Also - I AM NOT IN THE PA. Please do not let the PA rumblings stir anything. I was in the PA but dropped when I quit for 6 months. They would/will not let me back in due to the entire Colony transfer debacle....... For ULT, Galreth, Lars and any of the others...look me up for a pint (we'll family and I will be in Europe again next year) and for some non-game discussions. Personas are one thing but Real Life should be about friendships. Mad Man himself. PPS - while we are 5 home worlds. None of them involve the Hellenic league nor do I or my allies have any contact with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galreth Posted August 5, 2006 Report Share Posted August 5, 2006 To clean up some loose ends... No, I'm not an infantryman, yet I honor and support them and all sister services at every turn. I'm an Airman, with a capital 'A'. I believe in the importance of a good joint effort in which airpower (and that's one word) performs its unique and critical roles. I apologize with the Lebanon example. It came quickest to mind. I do in fact understand our EU brethren and other Americans see things differently. We can have that discussion offline sometime. And MMB is right this ONE time ( )...coordination of multiple empires is a b!tch each and every turn, especially to get those fleets in the right place, at the right time, on the right order pulse, etc. That was a real time consumer. And to answer Eternus' specific point...no, I never set my fleets against an ally. There was no stab-in-the-back by any definition I've heard of. I simply announced my decision to drop after it was plain that I could not hold the fort any longer due to RL limitations. If I had unlimited time, I'd play on in a heartbeat. While there are always issues to the game, I find it very enjoyable over all. Maybe my last empire will one day find some new neighbors as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WKE235 Posted August 6, 2006 Report Share Posted August 6, 2006 Well, if anyone can be said to be "winning" the game .. the only person who comes close would be MMB. Despite the forces arrayed against him, despite the the ins and outs of politics with various groups, despite the changes in various empire ownerships .. there he sits, defiant, and more frightening, still growing through it all! So, given that several empires fighting him have now been dropped (leaving them open for conquest, especially Rome), and given the departure of ULT .. can nothing stop MMB's unending desire for conflict and conquest? Are we all destined to ask his permission before anything is done in the game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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