Hellenic Warp Points Fall!

[Locklyn]

Actually Gervais since you asked...

 

Last Turn my major merchant fleet didnt move because a wormhole link I had sent an email to Pete about coding in had apparently gone missing...Pete said he had coded this in so that the fleet should be able to move this turn...

 

And no, the coding was not in place, my major merchant fleet with around 19 Mton of Cargo Space did not warp as intended, did not bring the supplies to allies as intended, did not bring the materials for a new major warship to homeworld as intended which subsequently failed in its construction...and the fleet sat at the same planet for the second turn in a row...

 

So no, the turn didnt go right...anything else you wanted to ask about?

 

Also Id like you guys to remember that without those of us having the balls to question the status quo we would still be having ANZ that gave weapon ratings in the form of poor, adequate etc without any other numbers to back that up

 

We wouldnt have even a semblance of the naval combat draft we have now and so on...

 

As for whining, when someone refuses to fix or even compensate you for their mistake and doesnt even bother to reply to your request for compensation, Pete hasnt come to me and said "I made a mistake what can I do to make it up to you apart from running a battle between turns that I cant do"...well you might be one to just sit quietly with your hand in your pocket but I pay to play and expect the service that comes with payment...as I would anywhere else!

 

 

 

/Locklyn

[Prospective]

Bravo Locklyn!!!

 

I can't speak for the veracity of your reports, but my assumption is you aren't a congenital liar. So, assuming you are telling the truth, then what justification does Pete have for NOT fixing HIS screwups. Dude, I don't think I've ever communicated with you directly but my god, I'd be PISSED OFF. And if it can happen to you, I am sure it could happen to me (though thankfully it hasn't in any major way).

 

Out of curiosity, did you call him and speak to him directly? I think that it's the best way (may be the only way) to get problems fixed, there is a definite lack of responses to emails. Of course, being 1/3 of the world away from Colorado, arranging timing might be difficult but it seems to me it's the only way to get things remedied.

 

Good luck. I hope you don't quit.

[Paradigm]

Locklyn, let us know if Pete adjusts for your cargo fleet not moving. As you describe it, it certainly sounds like something he should correct and something that can be done between turns.

 

That Aries Mk I does look like Hellenic might give you a real fight after all rather than just forting up. I think however that ends up, it is going to be more fun for both sides than a protracted siege would have been. The Aries Mk I doesn't look new though as it shows as "Seasoned, Valiant". Makes me wonder when the Aries Mk II is going to show up.

 

For what is is worth it appears on the surface like you gave about as good as you got by tonnage.

[cestvel]

Locklyn, let us know if Pete adjusts for your cargo fleet not moving. As you describe it, it certainly sounds like something he should correct and something that can be done between turns.

 

That Aries Mk I does look like Hellenic might give you a real fight after all rather than just forting up. I think however that ends up, it is going to be more fun for both sides than a protracted siege would have been. The Aries Mk I doesn't look new though as it shows as "Seasoned, Valiant". Makes me wonder when the Aries Mk II is going to show up.

 

For what is is worth it appears on the surface like you gave about as good as you got by tonnage.

 

My bet is, that the Aries is assigned new to a fleet that had that Valiant rating already.

[Paradigm]

My bet is, that the Aries is assigned new to a fleet that had that Valiant rating already.

 

I hope it doesn't work like that.

[Breoghan]

....or maybe reinforced a fleet that had that rating already? Dunno if that would fit.

[hobknob]

I believe that Locklyn lives in Sweden so just picking up the phone like some of us closer folks is not really the first option one would take.

 

Heck, I am not even sure if he speaks english, although you could never tell from his posts.

[ShadowKitsune]

 

Now I know that SNROTE is not a country (democratic or otherwise), but I apply this principle by analogy. If RTG want Locklyn to shut up, then what better way than to "encourage" him to leave the game? This could be accomplished in a subtle way without seeming to be deliberate by, say, doubly screwing up his long laid plans and then refusing to correct them.

 

And if Locklyn is the target this time, who will be the target the next time? And the next? And the next?

 

**Whinge, whine**

 

Don't start feeding Locklyn's whining with your paranoia! Everyone makes mistakes -- there's an old saying "the person who never made a mistake is the person who never made anything". The successful man or woman is not one who never makes mistakes (no such person exists), but one who recovers or corrects mistakes, and learns from them for next time.

 

Whenever I make a mistake as a player in SNROTE, I do my best to fix it and carry on, working out a way to avoid making the same mistake in the future. If RTG make a mistake due to a software bug or manual intervention, then I expect them to fix it depending upon how trivial it is, and I have heard many stories of this being the case.

 

RTG have an enviable reputation in the PBM world and, as with all great reputations, it takes years to acquire. But a bad reputation is acquired much more quickly. I will not judge RTG so harshly when they make an occasional mistake or two.

 

If RTG want to "encourage" Locklyn to leave the game, then one or two drastic mistakes probably would not do it -- so I don't think this is happening, despite what LenLorek may think. Now if RTG were **contunually** screwing up Locklyn's game turn, then I might agree with LenLorek. But from what I know of RTG's reputation, I don't believe this will happen.

 

So, tell me, Locklyn, how was your game turn this time around -- or are you not so eager to tell us when things go RIGHT?

 

Gervais P-F

 

I would disagree with you regarding Locklyn's posts being "whining". He brought up a few valid points:

 

1. The Combat Engine is flawed. Specifically, it cannot handle battles with large numbers of combatants. Right now, that strain is coming from "useless" screen ships - small (1000-2000 ton) vessels - that are mass produced by the thousands by the more established empires. However, as these same older Empires gain technologies which improve resource gathering and industrial output, they can start to build similar quantities of larger - say 50k-100k ton - vessels, which would be harder to dismiss as "useless". (I could add as a corollary - what exactly am I to do with all of the "low-end" weaponry that I built back when they were "state-of-the-art" such as 10cm Autocannons?)

 

2. Mistakes were made by RTG. When they were pointed out, the recompense was an apology and nothing more.

 

3. These issues affect ALL of the players of SN:ROTE, not just him.

 

If your comment was solely directed at the kill ratio of the battle, I will not debate you.

 

I would agree with you that RTG has an excellent reputation within the industry and RTG should try to make amends for damage caused by faulty and/or missing code (or similar "mistakes") by RTG. I would like just a little more "insight" into what is going on "behind the scenes", preferrably as posts in the GM Notes Sections of our Turn Reports. I don't want to know all of the formulae, per se, but I would like to know that the Combat Engine "chokes" on large screen fleet battles and that Pete is trying to resolve the issue through [insert solution(s) here].

 

YMMV,

-SK

[Paradigm]

Heck, I am not even sure if he speaks english, although you could never tell from his posts.

 

Whenever I hear Swedish now I'll think of it being Gremloidish.

 

In the time honored tradition of thread hijacking: I would just like better/quicker communication with the GM on actual turn errors. Even if it is just a short response saying there isn't much he can do because it wouldn't be fair to change things that have already happened to another player. Or a response that he is swamped and can't look in to it right now but it is on his list and he'll get to it as soon as he can. Nothing is more frustrating than sending the GM an email about a problem and receiving absolutely no responce.

 

Note that I am talking about specific game problems here. I don't expect the GM to answer every email trying to find some creative way to trick him in to giving up game secrets or such.

[WKE235]

1. The Combat Engine is flawed. Specifically, it cannot handle battles with large numbers of combatants. Right now, that strain is coming from "useless" screen ships - small (1000-2000 ton) vessels - that are mass produced by the thousands by the more established empires. However, as these same older Empires gain technologies which improve resource gathering and industrial output, they can start to build similar quantities of larger - say 50k-100k ton - vessels, which would be harder to dismiss as "useless". (I could add as a corollary - what exactly am I to do with all of the "low-end" weaponry that I built back when they were "state-of-the-art" such as 10cm Autocannons?)

 

I don't know if you can say the combat engine is flawed. It seems to work. But it takes a long time to run through a battle involving large numbers of ships. And it uses a lot of memory to do so. Imagine two fleets, eacy with 20,000 ships, and a 100 fire rating. Each round of combat, for each side, it has to do this 200 times: Select an opposing ship, select again and if a better target aim there, determine the glob of damage based on defenses and distance, record damage to the ship, record if destroyed .. repeat. Once a combat round is complete, calc out changes in fire power and fire control, repeat sequence. Somewhere in here it tosses in CIDS effect on missles/fighters as well. The computer will have to process all of these instructions over and over at least 40,000 times. At in every step it's calling on other database objects and tables to work out formulas and hit percentages. All the IO, page reads, etcetera.. add up and really slow the process down. MS Access is famous for not freeing up the memory pages as it processes in the tables. So the database size keeps going up as data is updated, with the older space not deleted or removed until a compress is run. This can also lead to thrashing where the product keeps processing huge chunks of data into and out of storage, just to process one small piece of data.

 

If anything I would say the technology used in the program is not up to the demands the game is placing on it.

[chairman lar]

I believe that Locklyn lives in Sweden so just picking up the phone like some of us closer folks is not really the first option one would take.

 

Heck, I am not even sure if he speaks english, although you could never tell from his posts.

 

Locklyn.B'tai, Rednas, and God knows who else are European and take a different approach to Technical issues than we in the West. After working with several, and dealing with even more Army wives from there, I can tell you that we will drive each other crazy trying to reconcile our approaches to the same problem.

 

Tab A will fit Slot B; we make it so, they insist it will before they get it.

 

The quickest way to mutual understanding that I've seen usually comes just after the damn thing nearly lands on your foot; you realize you're both wrong; and the melding of Continental Orderliness and American Ingenuity combines to convince the Boss it was the Engineers fault!

 

 

I believe that Locklyn lives in Sweden so just picking up the phone like some of us closer folks is not really the first option one would take.

 

Heck, I am not even sure if he speaks english, although you could never tell from his posts.

 

Locklyn.B'tai, Rednas, and God knows who else are European and take a different approach to Technical issues than we in the West. After working with several, and dealing with even more Army wives from there, I can tell you that we will drive each other crazy trying to reconcile our approaches to the same problem.

 

Tab A will fit Slot B; we make it so, they insist it will before they get it.

 

The quickest way to mutual understanding that I've seen usually comes just after the damn thing nearly lands on your foot; you realize you're both wrong; and the melding of Continental Orderliness and American Ingenuity combines to convince the Boss it was the Engineers fault!

[Lord Deependra]

After reviewing the battle reports and considering all the issues raised, I have reached the following conclusion:-

 

I don't think the Hellenes WANT to be liberated.

[Locklyn]

1. The Combat Engine is flawed. Specifically, it cannot handle battles with large numbers of combatants. Right now, that strain is coming from "useless" screen ships - small (1000-2000 ton) vessels - that are mass produced by the thousands by the more established empires. However, as these same older Empires gain technologies which improve resource gathering and industrial output, they can start to build similar quantities of larger - say 50k-100k ton - vessels, which would be harder to dismiss as "useless". (I could add as a corollary - what exactly am I to do with all of the "low-end" weaponry that I built back when they were "state-of-the-art" such as 10cm Autocannons?)

 

I don't know if you can say the combat engine is flawed. It seems to work. But it takes a long time to run through a battle involving large numbers of ships. And it uses a lot of memory to do so. Imagine two fleets, eacy with 20,000 ships, and a 100 fire rating. Each round of combat, for each side, it has to do this 200 times: Select an opposing ship, select again and if a better target aim there, determine the glob of damage based on defenses and distance, record damage to the ship, record if destroyed .. repeat. Once a combat round is complete, calc out changes in fire power and fire control, repeat sequence. Somewhere in here it tosses in CIDS effect on missles/fighters as well. The computer will have to process all of these instructions over and over at least 40,000 times. At in every step it's calling on other database objects and tables to work out formulas and hit percentages. All the IO, page reads, etcetera.. add up and really slow the process down. MS Access is famous for not freeing up the memory pages as it processes in the tables. So the database size keeps going up as data is updated, with the older space not deleted or removed until a compress is run. This can also lead to thrashing where the product keeps processing huge chunks of data into and out of storage, just to process one small piece of data.

 

If anything I would say the technology used in the program is not up to the demands the game is placing on it.

 

Actually I just discovered that the engine cant handle really big transfers, I had 15 billion (15,000,000,000) materials I needed to transfer did a TR order via the TC and then via the Universal Gate only to discover that only 2 billion (2,000,000,000) of the materials had gone through. Apparently the TR system cant handle bigger numbers than that so you need to do the same thing over and over within the TR to ensure that you get the stuff across

 

Cheers

/Locklyn

[Lord Deependra]

1. The Combat Engine is flawed. Specifically, it cannot handle battles with large numbers of combatants. Right now, that strain is coming from "useless" screen ships - small (1000-2000 ton) vessels - that are mass produced by the thousands by the more established empires. However, as these same older Empires gain technologies which improve resource gathering and industrial output, they can start to build similar quantities of larger - say 50k-100k ton - vessels, which would be harder to dismiss as "useless". (I could add as a corollary - what exactly am I to do with all of the "low-end" weaponry that I built back when they were "state-of-the-art" such as 10cm Autocannons?)

 

I don't know if you can say the combat engine is flawed. It seems to work. But it takes a long time to run through a battle involving large numbers of ships. And it uses a lot of memory to do so. Imagine two fleets, eacy with 20,000 ships, and a 100 fire rating. Each round of combat, for each side, it has to do this 200 times: Select an opposing ship, select again and if a better target aim there, determine the glob of damage based on defenses and distance, record damage to the ship, record if destroyed .. repeat. Once a combat round is complete, calc out changes in fire power and fire control, repeat sequence. Somewhere in here it tosses in CIDS effect on missles/fighters as well. The computer will have to process all of these instructions over and over at least 40,000 times. At in every step it's calling on other database objects and tables to work out formulas and hit percentages. All the IO, page reads, etcetera.. add up and really slow the process down. MS Access is famous for not freeing up the memory pages as it processes in the tables. So the database size keeps going up as data is updated, with the older space not deleted or removed until a compress is run. This can also lead to thrashing where the product keeps processing huge chunks of data into and out of storage, just to process one small piece of data.

 

If anything I would say the technology used in the program is not up to the demands the game is placing on it.

 

Actually I just discovered that the engine cant handle really big transfers, I had 15 billion (15,000,000,000) materials I needed to transfer did a TR order via the TC and then via the Universal Gate only to discover that only 2 billion (2,000,000,000) of the materials had gone through. Apparently the TR system cant handle bigger numbers than that so you need to do the same thing over and over within the TR to ensure that you get the stuff across

 

Cheers

/Locklyn

 

I wonder if that is a "can't handle" or if it is a deliberate limitation by Pete (like the SHIP order).

[Locklyn]

1. The Combat Engine is flawed. Specifically, it cannot handle battles with large numbers of combatants. Right now, that strain is coming from "useless" screen ships - small (1000-2000 ton) vessels - that are mass produced by the thousands by the more established empires. However, as these same older Empires gain technologies which improve resource gathering and industrial output, they can start to build similar quantities of larger - say 50k-100k ton - vessels, which would be harder to dismiss as "useless". (I could add as a corollary - what exactly am I to do with all of the "low-end" weaponry that I built back when they were "state-of-the-art" such as 10cm Autocannons?)

 

I don't know if you can say the combat engine is flawed. It seems to work. But it takes a long time to run through a battle involving large numbers of ships. And it uses a lot of memory to do so. Imagine two fleets, eacy with 20,000 ships, and a 100 fire rating. Each round of combat, for each side, it has to do this 200 times: Select an opposing ship, select again and if a better target aim there, determine the glob of damage based on defenses and distance, record damage to the ship, record if destroyed .. repeat. Once a combat round is complete, calc out changes in fire power and fire control, repeat sequence. Somewhere in here it tosses in CIDS effect on missles/fighters as well. The computer will have to process all of these instructions over and over at least 40,000 times. At in every step it's calling on other database objects and tables to work out formulas and hit percentages. All the IO, page reads, etcetera.. add up and really slow the process down. MS Access is famous for not freeing up the memory pages as it processes in the tables. So the database size keeps going up as data is updated, with the older space not deleted or removed until a compress is run. This can also lead to thrashing where the product keeps processing huge chunks of data into and out of storage, just to process one small piece of data.

 

If anything I would say the technology used in the program is not up to the demands the game is placing on it.

 

Actually I just discovered that the engine cant handle really big transfers, I had 15 billion (15,000,000,000) materials I needed to transfer did a TR order via the TC and then via the Universal Gate only to discover that only 2 billion (2,000,000,000) of the materials had gone through. Apparently the TR system cant handle bigger numbers than that so you need to do the same thing over and over within the TR to ensure that you get the stuff across

 

Cheers

/Locklyn

 

I wonder if that is a "can't handle" or if it is a deliberate limitation by Pete (like the SHIP order).

 

 

Or a limitation not to swell the database? Anyways, as for the latest snafu, Pete has promised to correct all the errors that occured due to the wormhole coding error. So have sent the list and hoping everything works out, would be nice (both for me and Pete) to have a turn where I didnt have to email him directly after I receive the turn...

 

/Locklyn