The Flock Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 If there is no sighting then no battle will occur. What happened regarding the world in question here had absolutely nothing to do with fleet sightings, and everything to do with a fleet that attacked the defenses of a world, was completely destroyed by the defenders that fired back, and then managed to offload cargo. I am very busy right now trying to get the current turn cycle out before Friday, and have watched quite a few fleets be atomized by enemy forces with their cargo and commanders vaporized along with them. The new code I just put in to triple check cargo loss is working like a charm. If I test it and take the HW again tdo i get to keep the HW?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cestvel Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 If there is no sighting then no battle will occur. What happened regarding the world in question here had absolutely nothing to do with fleet sightings, and everything to do with a fleet that attacked the defenses of a world, was completely destroyed by the defenders that fired back, and then managed to offload cargo. I am very busy right now trying to get the current turn cycle out before Friday, and have watched quite a few fleets be atomized by enemy forces with their cargo and commanders vaporized along with them. The new code I just put in to triple check cargo loss is working like a charm. If I test it and take the HW again tdo i get to keep the HW?????? You do not get it, do you? The idea (aka rules, aka common sense) tells you, that a destroyed ship cannot drop its cargo down on a planet. If it still does, it is a BUG. The program is NOT the rules, just an approach to enforce them. If the program fails, the GM will correct the problem by hand. Spare yourself from your anger by just not exploiting obvious bugs. Seems a lot of people can do that, just a handful try to get by under the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Capitan Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 ... cause if you think about it in the spirit of the game its not improbable to think that during the battle the captain of the ship shoots a pod out with a few colonist and some suppies to try to put together a colony....... NO, your logic here is absolutely flawed to the core because it violates all aspects of the game RULES concerning order processing, sequencing, and resolution. NO WHERE in the game do any of the ORDERS allow for contingencies or the for the consideration of what orders follow after it. So NO, within the confines of this game as dictated by its rules and governed by its inherent limitations imposed by order sequencing and ability to only process one order at a time, IT IS NOT PROBABLE THAT THE CAPTAIN DROPPED A BEACON DURING THE BATTLE. Short of a bug (i.e. error in programming) the probability of this should be ZERO! Using your same flawed "logic", cosider this situation: Empire A moves to a location and encounters Empire B. A battle ensues and side A wins. Empire B's next order was to move another ship to this same location. Another battle ensues and side A wins again. But let's say that due to the bug, not only did the program not delete the cargo at the conclusion of the first battle, it didn't delete the ship. Empire Bs next order was to move a ship to that same location where the battle took place. Empire A should eaily be able to defeat both of these ships individually (which is what should have happended if it weren't for the bug), but due to the bug, Empire B now has two ships here. Another battle takes place and Empire B now kills the ship from Empire A that in reality should have killed both of these ships in separate battles. By your "logic", does it not seem probable that knowing he was about to be destroyed, and knowing that he had another ship in the system, that during the battle the captain could have sent out a distress call to his other ship? Logically, that would explain why the second ship showed up BEFORE the first one was destroyed even though order sequencing would have never allowed this to happen. YOUR LOGIC AND IDEAS ON PROBABILITY, as how they relate to the order structure and abilities of this game, are flawed beyond reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highwayman Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 i can see both sides to this kinda... i understand that is "THIS GAME" there are no probability... but we all know there are alot of bugs and they only get looked at when something like this happens... i have had alien fleet sights that should have had a battle that didnt.... when i mentioned to pete he says there is a slight chance for this to happen.... really? 5 times in the same turn? i dont think so... so yes in the flocks mind maybe this was a suicide mission for his fleets and that was ok... but as pete has spoken and said no that is not the way the game was intended then that is that......... So again i call on Pete to take some time and fix all known bugs...................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Flock Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 If there is no sighting then no battle will occur. What happened regarding the world in question here had absolutely nothing to do with fleet sightings, and everything to do with a fleet that attacked the defenses of a world, was completely destroyed by the defenders that fired back, and then managed to offload cargo. I am very busy right now trying to get the current turn cycle out before Friday, and have watched quite a few fleets be atomized by enemy forces with their cargo and commanders vaporized along with them. The new code I just put in to triple check cargo loss is working like a charm. If I test it and take the HW again tdo i get to keep the HW?????? You do not get it, do you? The idea (aka rules, aka common sense) tells you, that a destroyed ship cannot drop its cargo down on a planet. If it still does, it is a BUG. The program is NOT the rules, just an approach to enforce them. If the program fails, the GM will correct the problem by hand. Spare yourself from your anger by just not exploiting obvious bugs. Seems a lot of people can do that, just a handful try to get by under the rules. DO you not get it, you have to test the program to see how things work. Why did everyone do all those test battles in the beginning? To test how things work. My conclusion that the reason for all the fleet sightings failing and why I was able to do an order FIT the actual results better than Pete's "Player A spots player B's fleets. The instant that happens, player B spots player A's fleet. All fleet sightings always go to both sides. It is not a one-way street, where player A spots B's forces but not the other way around. The sighting reports go to every empire present, at the instant any sighting occurs. The moment that occurs, a potential battle is stored to be re-checked at the conclusion of that pulse. Assuming both sides are still there after everyone's orders for that pulse have executed, A BATTLE OCCURS in between pulses 10 and 11." REALLY, a battle occurs every time both fleets are still there, REALLY! A pronouncement not a REALITY. Trusting the printout to not to be doing something wierd is likewise, not reality. I say again, at least my theory for how things worked actually fit the REALITY of turn results IT actually had a explaination for why there were no battles at the end of the pulse for some sightings. In my theory, Porven correct 100 Percent of the time thru game results. Empire A on pulse 10 sees NOTHING, as it ran first, Empire B moves in on its turns later the same pulse and sights Empire A but has a ROE of Q so no battle. Pulse 11 Empire A sights empire B, there will be a battle at end of pusle due to empire A ROE, empire B moves away NO BATTLE, just as happens a lot of times for real on everyones TURN. And I am being told I was foolish for thinking this is how things work, and that I am cheating for thinking this is how things work, Morons. As for the RULES, are they correct about anything concerning defensive sysytems, battles, ECT??????? I can not believe NONE of you are testing to see how things work, and using that to your advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagritz Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 If I understand what the Flock is saying, he is sometimes able to do one action (an ORB, COLB, OC etc) before any battle is processed? that would suggest that his theory with the pulses is correct, that would also mean that this isn't to do with ships having cargo left over after the battle. Just to clarify Flock am I correct on how this has worked out for you? the action happens before the battle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cestvel Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 REALLY, a battle occurs every time both fleets are still there, REALLY! A pronouncement not a REALITY. Trusting the printout to not to be doing something wierd is likewise, not reality. I say again, at least my theory for how things worked actually fit the REALITY of turn results IT actually had a explaination for why there were no battles at the end of the pulse for some sightings. In my theory, Porven correct 100 Percent of the time thru game results. Empire A on pulse 10 sees NOTHING, as it ran first, Empire B moves in on its turns later the same pulse and sights Empire A but has a ROE of Q so no battle. Pulse 11 Empire A sights empire B, there will be a battle at end of pusle due to empire A ROE, empire B moves away NO BATTLE, just as happens a lot of times for real on everyones TURN. And I am being told I was foolish for thinking this is how things work, and that I am cheating for thinking this is how things work, Morons. As for the RULES, are they correct about anything concerning defensive sysytems, battles, ECT??????? I can not believe NONE of you are testing to see how things work, and using that to your advantage. How you describe what happens to the rare instance where one fleet moves in and another moves away is clearly a bug, as Pete stated it would be otherwise. Report the bug and let Pete fix it.But you moved in on a stationary fleet, got spotted on the pulse your fleet went in. At end of that pulse a battle triggered and your fleet got annihilated. Now on your NEXT pulse you issued the OC and by magic the stuff landed on the planet.And you REALLY want to tell me, that that did not look fishy to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemanari Public Relations Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Flagritz what THe Flock was doing looking like this NM Fleet A Monkeynuts 4 OC Fleet A Colony A All my crap Fleet sightings take place when a fleet moves into a location from what I understand. So on the first order pulse his fleet moved to the planet. The enemy fleet saw him. This triggered a battle which takes place between the first and second pulses. The Flock fleet was destroyed, but because of a bug the cargo was still there listed as being in a fleet without any ships. On the second pulse his order to offload the cargo took place. Since the glitch in the coding left the cargo in the fleet the order was able to go through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTGPete Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 How you describe what happens to the rare instance where one fleet moves in and another moves away is clearly a bug, as Pete stated it would be otherwise. Report the bug and let Pete fix it.But you moved in on a stationary fleet, got spotted on the pulse your fleet went in. At end of that pulse a battle triggered and your fleet got annihilated. Now on your NEXT pulse you issued the OC and by magic the stuff landed on the planet.And you REALLY want to tell me, that that did not look fishy to you? One small note - if fleet A moves in and spots fleet B, both sides are given sighting reports at that instant. The potential for a battle is recorded and other orders continue to execute for the remainder of that pulse. If Fleet B happens to move off on that very same pulse then at the conclusion of the pulse, when the potential battles are re-checked to see if their conditions are still met, then (let's say that fleet A is the only fleet remaining there) a battle would not take place. That's not a bug. Both fleets sighted each other, but by the time that particular pulse ended, fleet B moved off, leaving only fleet A there by the time the actual battle code was summoned. Quite often a player will say "ah ha! bug!" but in fact it's not a bug at all. Fleet B moved away just in the nick of time. This, by the way, is why pulse 1 is so crucial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTGPete Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Flagritz what THe Flock was doing looking like this NM Fleet A Monkeynuts 4 OC Fleet A Colony A All my crap Fleet sightings take place when a fleet moves into a location from what I understand. So on the first order pulse his fleet moved to the planet. The enemy fleet saw him. This triggered a battle which takes place between the first and second pulses. The Flock fleet was destroyed, but because of a bug the cargo was still there listed as being in a fleet without any ships. On the second pulse his order to offload the cargo took place. Since the glitch in the coding left the cargo in the fleet the order was able to go through. To quote from the very funny movie My Cousin Vinny, the above is "Dead On Balls Accurate" However, the movement itself doesn't trigger a battle, it just triggers a sighting report for both sides. Both fleets need to be there at the conclusion of the pulse for a potential battle to actually trigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagritz Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hey Jemanari Thanks for the clarification, it was confusing cos earlier the flock had said that he had done " lots of probes and lots of different orders, and they succeed about half the time." I wasn't sure if it is just appearing to the defending player like they destroyed the ship as soon as the sight it, something like: Pulse 1 Defender is processed first and sees nothing and that is the ned of the pulse for them Pulse 1 Attacker moves sighting is recorded on Attackers turn but does not trigger a battle. Pulse 2 the result of the attacker moving is recorded on the defenders turn and triggers a battle to play out at the end of the turn. Pulse 2 attacker does a ORB or COLB, Defender does something Battle is processed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagritz Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 woops, ignore my post Pete, you posted while I was typing! Thanks for the clarification Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTGPete Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 I won't be able to check the forums regularly over the next couple of days, but I'll try to peek in when I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cestvel Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 How you describe what happens to the rare instance where one fleet moves in and another moves away is clearly a bug, as Pete stated it would be otherwise. Report the bug and let Pete fix it.But you moved in on a stationary fleet, got spotted on the pulse your fleet went in. At end of that pulse a battle triggered and your fleet got annihilated. Now on your NEXT pulse you issued the OC and by magic the stuff landed on the planet.And you REALLY want to tell me, that that did not look fishy to you? One small note - if fleet A moves in and spots fleet B, both sides are given sighting reports at that instant. The potential for a battle is recorded and other orders continue to execute for the remainder of that pulse. If Fleet B happens to move off on that very same pulse then at the conclusion of the pulse, when the potential battles are re-checked to see if their conditions are still met, then (let's say that fleet A is the only fleet remaining there) a battle would not take place. That's not a bug. Both fleets sighted each other, but by the time that particular pulse ended, fleet B moved off, leaving only fleet A there by the time the actual battle code was summoned. Quite often a player will say "ah ha! bug!" but in fact it's not a bug at all. Fleet B moved away just in the nick of time. This, by the way, is why pulse 1 is so crucial. What happened to me quite often is, that a scout move into my stationary fleet, is spotted, but no battle occured. ROE was Whiskey and NAP, so it should have triggered a battle, but did'nt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Flock Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 REALLY, a battle occurs every time both fleets are still there, REALLY! A pronouncement not a REALITY. Trusting the printout to not to be doing something wierd is likewise, not reality. I say again, at least my theory for how things worked actually fit the REALITY of turn results IT actually had a explaination for why there were no battles at the end of the pulse for some sightings. In my theory, Porven correct 100 Percent of the time thru game results. Empire A on pulse 10 sees NOTHING, as it ran first, Empire B moves in on its turns later the same pulse and sights Empire A but has a ROE of Q so no battle. Pulse 11 Empire A sights empire B, there will be a battle at end of pusle due to empire A ROE, empire B moves away NO BATTLE, just as happens a lot of times for real on everyones TURN. And I am being told I was foolish for thinking this is how things work, and that I am cheating for thinking this is how things work, Morons. As for the RULES, are they correct about anything concerning defensive sysytems, battles, ECT??????? I can not believe NONE of you are testing to see how things work, and using that to your advantage. How you describe what happens to the rare instance where one fleet moves in and another moves away is clearly a bug, as Pete stated it would be otherwise. Report the bug and let Pete fix it.But you moved in on a stationary fleet, got spotted on the pulse your fleet went in. At end of that pulse a battle triggered and your fleet got annihilated. Now on your NEXT pulse you issued the OC and by magic the stuff landed on the planet.And you REALLY want to tell me, that that did not look fishy to you? It looked fishy the first time I tried it, but when I did it 10 more times, well, and came up with my theory, not so fishy anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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