Breoghan Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 "Smart" dropped positions I could live with (but only after I've dealt with the one I'm investing currently with my youngest empire, please! Two more turns should see it over and done with - the guy didn't exactly leave 'em defenceless - then have at it!) Ok - I was trying to be subtle there. Sorry. It's all a matter of how the previous owner left 'em, surely. Putting them on auto-pilot is going to have them at optimal strength, falsely, taking all randomness out of the equation. As I say, I can live with smart dropped positions, but it would have to be smart on a par with the surrounding positions for it to be reasonable, I reckon. Just my few pennies worth on the subject..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Capitan Posted October 11, 2008 Report Share Posted October 11, 2008 Another comment, and the most significant, about 3 active players vs. 1 active player. RTG has given the defender ample advantages in this game. If a defender on his HW can't fend off 3 players, I doubt he'd be any better at fendig off a single player. The minimal amt. of tonnage and troops that Flagritz attacked with should have been easily repelled by a single defender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCINAT Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 > Oh, some dropped HW defend itself with tenth to even hundredth of division, others do not. And I am pretty sure, that the divisions were not build by the original owner! RTG does nothing to drops. What is there is what was left there. > This whole thing is a spacious [pun intended] arguement. I doubt the player that got whacked by someone running 3 empires finds it specious. Pete doubled the forces on the 1st dropped home world I ever tried taking (at first alone and then with the kind help of the Golden Sun Colonial). And he doubled the forces over and over again -- probably because I talked to Pete before every battle and he just wanted to make the game interesting for me. Finally the last time I attacked I didn't say anything to Pete because I figured that I was just probing to see how many divisions were there and I won (with the very considerable help of the GSC). So the dropped home world started with 12 divisions, got up to about 100 divisions and would have probably had 200 divisions if Pete knew the attack was coming. I guess I am just the lucky minority ;-}> As for the scenario of starting 100 positions -- I bet that all the rest of us would rise up against them. Personally I have seen people spend $1000 a month on PBM games -- they usually burn out after a year or two for one reason or another. And I suspect that in subtle ways Pete would make things more difficult for such a player. I know that when Paradigm was attacked by the TDV a group of allies rose up to fight them. SCINAT personally nailed three Mogami ships and asked for nothing in return. We were just trying to be a good neighbor to Paradigm and RIP. John/SCINAT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowKitsune Posted October 12, 2008 Report Share Posted October 12, 2008 "Smart" dropped positions I could live with (but only after I've dealt with the one I'm investing currently with my youngest empire, please! Two more turns should see it over and done with - the guy didn't exactly leave 'em defenceless - then have at it!) Ok - I was trying to be subtle there. Sorry. It's all a matter of how the previous owner left 'em, surely. Putting them on auto-pilot is going to have them at optimal strength, falsely, taking all randomness out of the equation. As I say, I can live with smart dropped positions, but it would have to be smart on a par with the surrounding positions for it to be reasonable, I reckon. Just my few pennies worth on the subject..... I would agree that the Dropped Homeworld would be building towards "optimal" within the parameters of their lifeform design, if the AI was built to be that flavor of "smart". I was advocating such a position. I do, however, disagree with your assertion that it takes all randomness out of the equation. Even if all Dropped Empires build the exact same units, you won't have uniformity in the result, because you are always starting with a different set of initial conditions. This would especially true regarding the Ground Combat. If your Empire knew of five Dropped Empires, each of whom had been running for 10 Turns before you got there with your invasion force and had identically composed Armies that you knew the composition of, you will still have five different battle results, even if your Army was comprised identically in each battle. Why? Lifeform choices. Drop #1 could be a Colonizer, built to tolerate a variety of planetary conditions. Drop #2 could be Brains-in-a-Jar, built to be very smart, but not very tough. Drop #3 could be a Ground Combat race, built to win on the Ground. Drop #4 could be a Psychic race, maxed out in all of the Psychic areas - ESP, Telekinesis, and Telepathy. Drop #5 could be a Middle-of-the-Road race, no flaws, but not really good and anything in particular. Even with everything else being the same, these variations will make the Ground Combat different each time. The odds of everything else being the same are pretty low. Unless each position was dropped right after they were set-up, and even then each position will begin to diverge the 2nd turn after being effectively dropped. Thus, even if the same algorithm was applied to every drop, the variation in initial conditions - Lifeform Design, Homeworld features, "abandoned" Fleets and Armies, Stockpiles and Production Queues - will guarantee that there will be enough variation that each and every conquest will be unique.* *Unless you bring 100:1 or better ratios of overwhelming force everytime. If you bring a big enough hammer, everything will start to look like a nail, right? YMMV, -SK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breoghan Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Wrong. I'm talking about what a player would have done with his defences - thats the whole point. We are all subject to our own views on what we need and what we should do with our defences. Auto-development of a dropped position will build troops/divisions as a routine rather than according to player priorities, whether those priorities are well thought out or no. Troops would be built without reference to perceived need. I'm sorry, it still doesn't meet "reasonable" criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 And picking up a dropped HW with the starting 5 divisions on it and only the starting "Bastion" class surface fort is reasonable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breoghan Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Uh uh - luck of the draw! Which is my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurassier Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Think of it this way. A dropped empire is a major alien race that at one time was very advanced. However, either through war, disease, famine, stellar disaster, or some other unknown cause, the race has fallen into decay and ruin. They can't make it to that 'next step' of progress, whatever that may be, and the world(s) has fallen into chaos. No viable central goverment to unify efforts (heck our own earth would qualify for this at the moment) so no interstellar progress is made. Take for example, the Tckon empire. Where are they? other than remnants here and there. Maybe some worlds build tons of armies and wait, maybe others use those armies to fight among themselves, therefore there aren't as many. Anyway, just some random thoughts. Stop by your local StarBars and we can discuss it some more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 I would rather have "luck of the draw" mean they built 100 of the same unit, as opposed to a diverse force, or that they only had level 4 weapons on the surface defenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damiano Posted October 13, 2008 Report Share Posted October 13, 2008 Yep, I've encountered both situations, and I know which I prefer, difficulty is balance when those empires that picked up drops early in the game only had to fight the 5 standard divisions, and those who picked them up later got to fight a tougher nut. The one that annoys me is if the planet used fission plants and ran out of processed radioactives so no stockpiles of any note, BUT still manages to produce 50-80 divisions to thwart your efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cestvel Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 News Update: The allied fleet of Worldlab Meyne arrived over the skies of the currently occupied homeworld of the KomKa: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** NAVAL BATTLE REPORT ** Worldlab Meyne # 492 (+12 [Leaders * Lifeform]) Total tonnage: 277,343,750.....Base Fire Control: 203 [56,450,000,000 bridge] Flagritz Empire # 1597 (No Naval Commanders) Total tonnage: 9,200,000.....Base Fire Control: 20 [187,500,000 bridge] Fleet 508 Worldlab Meyne #492 Grand Admiral N-1 Fleet 508 Worldlab Meyne #492 Legendary Explorer S-6 ------------------------------- ** Imperial Navy Report: Fleet Order of Battle ** ------------------------------------------ Worldlab Meyne # 492 [Two Lit Lightbulbs Over Planet] Fleet 508 [ROE: R] *Column Attack* (Fleet Tonnage: 277,343,750) [Deploy Location 1] 1 NDNF Vigilante (Flag Nova Dreadnaught - 277,343,750 tons [each]) <19,600 Colossus Drone>--<10,000 Combat Gunboat>--<5,211,690 Fuel>--<40 System Probe> ------------------------------- ** Imperial Navy Report: Fleet Order of Battle ** ------------------------------------------ Flagritz Empire # 1597 [Large Purple Winged Dragon With Fiery Red Eyes] Flagritz Trade Cogs [ROE: R] *Column Attack* (Fleet Tonnage: 2,000,000) [Deploy Location 9] 1 HF Inferno Cargo Cog (Heavy Freighter - 2,000,000 tons [each]) <225,000 Fuel> Guardians [ROE: X] *Total Defense* (Fleet Tonnage: 7,200,000) [Deploy Location 1] 600 SOX Inferno Guardian MKII (Surface Outpost - 1,000 tons [each]) [Deploy Location 1] 600 SOX Inferno Guardian (Surface Outpost - 1,000 tons [each]) [Deploy Location 4] 3 SFX Inferno Surface Baseship (Surface Fortress - 2,000,000 tons [each]) ** Battle Damage Assessment Report ** ----- Deployed Ordnance (Fighter/Drone Survivors) ----- Worldlab Meyne # 492 [ 19,600 / 19,600 Colossus Drone] Focused Attack Mk I Nuclear Pulse Engine Worldlab Meyne # 492 [ 10,000 / 10,000 Combat Gunboat] Deep Strike Mk I Nuclear Pulse Engine -------------------------------------------------- DepLoc 1 ------------------------------------------------------------ NDNF Vigilante (Flag Nova Dreadnaught - 277,343,750 tons) [integrity: 436,520,000 / 436,520,000] [shields: 249,836,476,644 / 250,000,000,000] (Green, Timid) 1,000 Drone Rack, 500 Fighter Bay, 3,600 Fuel Shuttle, 23,000,000 Fuel Tankage, 1 Mk I Flag Bridge 500 Mk I Holographic Cybernetic Battle Director, 1 Mk IV Jump Survey Sensor, 1,000,000 Mk IX Force Shield 25,000 Mk VI Gravitic Thruster, 1 Nuclear Transwarp Drive, 1 Repair Bay, 203,750 Tckon 68 311 Type D Spinal Meson Accelerator Particle Beam: 61,304,321,329 Maneuverability: 32.00, Missile Defense: 57.40 % ** Battle Damage Assessment Report ** -------------------------------------------------- DepLoc 1 ------------------------------------------------------------ **DESTROYED** [1056th] SOX Inferno Guardian (Surface Outpost - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 0 / 1,350,000] (Green, Timid) 1,000 Vananite Battle Armor **DESTROYED** [863rd] SOX Inferno Guardian MKII (Surface Outpost - 1,000 tons) [integrity: 0 / 3,600,000] (Green, Timid) 1,000 Trizenium Flex Plate -------------------------------------------------- DepLoc 4 ------------------------------------------------------------ **DESTROYED** [731st] SFX Inferno Surface Baseship (Surface Fortress - 2,000,000 tons) [integrity: 0 / 1,144,440,000] (Green, Timid) 350 Medium Graser, 2,500 Mk V Computer System, 840,000 Vananite Battle Armor Coherent Beam: 16,016,000 **DESTROYED** [1204th] SFX Inferno Surface Baseship (Surface Fortress - 2,000,000 tons) [integrity: 0 / 1,144,440,000] (Green, Timid) 350 Medium Graser, 2,500 Mk V Computer System, 840,000 Vananite Battle Armor Coherent Beam: 16,016,000 **DESTROYED** [1182nd] SFX Inferno Surface Baseship (Surface Fortress - 2,000,000 tons) [integrity: 0 / 1,144,440,000] (Green, Timid) 350 Medium Graser, 2,500 Mk V Computer System, 840,000 Vananite Battle Armor Coherent Beam: 16,016,000 -------------------------------------------------- DepLoc 9 ------------------------------------------------------------ **DESTROYED** [445th] HF Inferno Cargo Cog (Heavy Freighter - 2,000,000 tons) [integrity: 0 / 605,000] (Green, Timid) 1,000,000 Cargo Bay, 225,000 Fuel Tankage, 7,500 Mk III Fusion Engine, 1 Nuclear Transwarp Drive Maneuverability: 15.00, Missile Defense: 50.00 % ----- Post-Battle Damage Assessment Report----- Side 1 [1] 1 {Flagship} Vigilante class NDNF Side 2 [1] 600 Inferno Guardian class SOX..................................................600 Destroyed [1] 600 Inferno Guardian MKI class SOX..................................................600 Destroyed [4] 3 Inferno Surface Base class SFX..................................................3 Destroyed [9] 1 Inferno Cargo Cog class HF..................................................1 Destroyed ================================================================================ ========================================= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Deependra Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 As someone who lives as the same quadrant as the Kom-ka, I am wondering how far Cestevl is planning to take this war. Will he stop with the Kom-ka homeworld, with Flagritz's main empire or when every system in the galaxy has been submitted to his will? Wait, scratch that last one. That's everyone's ultimate plan :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locklyn Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 I think he might have some trouble with taking my systems... /Locklyn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cestvel Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 As someone who lives as the same quadrant as the Kom-ka, I am wondering how far Cestevl is planning to take this war. Will he stop with the Kom-ka homeworld, with Flagritz's main empire or when every system in the galaxy has been submitted to his will? Wait, scratch that last one. That's everyone's ultimate plan :-) Ask your ally. I told him in detail what happens next. But it will depend all on his actions. But first things first. Next turn I will try to capture that HW. When done, I will give it back to the KomKa after some improvements are set in place. Marcus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Deependra Posted July 11, 2009 Report Share Posted July 11, 2009 As someone who lives as the same quadrant as the Kom-ka, I am wondering how far Cestevl is planning to take this war. Will he stop with the Kom-ka homeworld, with Flagritz's main empire or when every system in the galaxy has been submitted to his will? Wait, scratch that last one. That's everyone's ultimate plan :-) Ask your ally. I told him in detail what happens next. But it will depend all on his actions. But first things first. Next turn I will try to capture that HW. When done, I will give it back to the KomKa after some improvements are set in place. Marcus Oh no, its as I feared. You, the Flagritz and the Komka are all plotting against me! <Looks around in panic, dives through the nearest window and starts preparing a ragtag fleet to flee to the lost colony of 'Earth'> : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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