Overcoming Screens...

[RTGPete]

If it is a complex tech, it implies the screen is still a viable defense against those who don't have it.

 

Translation: Slow turns until it's tech tree becomes common knowledge.

 

Ha! I can only imagine all the strange and twisted paths that Santa's SRPs will be used for this turn.

Oh, I wouldn't call it a complex tech. I like to think that the requirements make a lot of sense, but then again I have 8 tentacles and 12 eyestalks every other Friday, so maybe I see things differently than most I'd wager that when those who have it already got the tech back on their turns, they slapped themselves on their foreheads in a classic Homer Simpson DOH! moment

[Octus Imperium]

If it is a complex tech, it implies the screen is still a viable defense against those who don't have it.

 

Translation: Slow turns until it's tech tree becomes common knowledge.

 

Ha! I can only imagine all the strange and twisted paths that Santa's SRPs will be used for this turn.

Oh, I wouldn't call it a complex tech. I like to think that the requirements make a lot of sense, but then again I have 8 tentacles and 12 eyestalks every other Friday, so maybe I see things differently than most I'd wager that when those who have it already got the tech back on their turns, they slapped themselves on their foreheads in a classic Homer Simpson DOH! moment

 

Oh, this really hurts. More humility headed my way, as if there isn't enough in life. And having 6 limbs with very meaty forearms means I'm likely to be in a coma before I finish the head slapping. Where are those Advanced Black Market items when you need them?!? Mk III Combat Pain Killers will not be nearly enough.

 

Seriously, keeping the integrity of the research advantages is very important. One can only hope that those who went down other tech trees are getting advantages of their own. And this tech solution will not remain unkown to the masses for very long, I wager.

 

<Knew we should have done Tazer and Electric Fence research ages ago. But no...... Someone wanted better engines, didn't they.>

 

Octus

[RTGPete]

Oh, this really hurts. More humility headed my way, as if there isn't enough in life. And having 6 limbs with very meaty forearms means I'm likely to be in a coma before I finish the head slapping. Where are those Advanced Black Market items when you need them?!? Mk III Combat Pain Killers will not be nearly enough.

 

Seriously, keeping the integrity of the research advantages is very important. One can only hope that those who went down other tech trees are getting advantages of their own. And this tech solution will not remain unkown to the masses for very long, I wager.

 

<Knew we should have done Tazer and Electric Fence research ages ago. But no...... Someone wanted better engines, didn't they.>

 

Octus

Well, you see, if you take Razor Wire and attach it to a Cargo Barge filled with Advanced Plantfoods and fly it around using Mk VI Nuclear Pulse Engines in a gas cloud made of atomized Advanced Consumer Goods, it creates this weird plant-energy pseudo-magnetic field that sort of, well, lights up the most annoying enemy ships....and with the unexpected but critical connection being made by your brilliant scientists between Razor Wire and Plantfoods, thus is born the Type A Razor Wire Targeting Array, key to victory! Muahahahaha!

[Lord Deependra]

 

Oh, this really hurts. More humility headed my way, as if there isn't enough in life. And having 6 limbs with very meaty forearms means I'm likely to be in a coma before I finish the head slapping. Where are those Advanced Black Market items when you need them?!? Mk III Combat Pain Killers will not be nearly enough.

 

Seriously, keeping the integrity of the research advantages is very important. One can only hope that those who went down other tech trees are getting advantages of their own. And this tech solution will not remain unkown to the masses for very long, I wager.

 

<Knew we should have done Tazer and Electric Fence research ages ago. But no...... Someone wanted better engines, didn't they.>

 

Octus

Well, you see, if you take Razor Wire and attach it to a Cargo Barge filled with Advanced Plantfoods and fly it around using Mk VI Nuclear Pulse Engines in a gas cloud made of atomized Advanced Consumer Goods, it creates this weird plant-energy pseudo-magnetic field that sort of, well, lights up the most annoying enemy ships....and with the unexpected but critical connection being made by your brilliant scientists between Razor Wire and Plantfoods, thus is born the Type A Razor Wire Targeting Array, key to victory! Muahahahaha!

 

Ohh. I was WAYY off. I thought you just had to load your ships with grain to attract the Mutant Star Goats who would then eat all ships less than 10,000 tons.

[RTGPete]

Ohh. I was WAYY off. I thought you just had to load your ships with grain to attract the Mutant Star Goats who would then eat all ships less than 10,000 tons.

Oh, packing ships with Grains was tried, but space pirates armed with Mk I Cow Catapults came and stole all of the grain, so red-shirted security guards were brought aboard. Somehow, they all died in horrible ways while the rest of the crew was unharmed, and most of the grain was stolen anyway or eaten by small furry animals. Razor Wire was shuttled in to keep the little furballs from taking over the ship, and though this didn't work (some of them managed to get into the starboard power coupling, causing a warp core breach), some odd interactions between the Grains and Razor Wire were detected. This led to numerous Razor Wire tests, which bore fruit when brought into contact with none other than Advanced Plantfoods......

[Lord Deependra]

Ohh. I was WAYY off. I thought you just had to load your ships with grain to attract the Mutant Star Goats who would then eat all ships less than 10,000 tons.

Oh, packing ships with Grains was tried, but space pirates armed with Mk I Cow Catapults came and stole all of the grain, so red-shirted security guards were brought aboard. Somehow, they all died in horrible ways while the rest of the crew was unharmed, and most of the grain was stolen anyway or eaten by small furry animals. Razor Wire was shuttled in to keep the little furballs from taking over the ship, and though this didn't work (some of them managed to get into the starboard power coupling, causing a warp core breach), some odd interactions between the Grains and Razor Wire were detected. This led to numerous Razor Wire tests, which bore fruit when brought into contact with none other than Advanced Plantfoods......

 

Of course! Its so obvious now you've explained it.

[WKE235]

Oh, I wouldn't call it a complex tech. I like to think that the requirements make a lot of sense, but then again I have 8 tentacles and 12 eyestalks every other Friday, so maybe I see things differently than most I'd wager that when those who have it already got the tech back on their turns, they slapped themselves on their foreheads in a classic Homer Simpson DOH! moment

 

You know, I am a little annoyed with all this Pete. Hear me out. Around 2 1/2 years ago we had just discovered the role of Fire Control and Screen ships in battles. At that time we had a lot of suggestions that this made no sense, that rules shoudl change, that something needed to exist to get around this. And throughout all of those threads, you said nothing about there being a tech that could do what the players wanted. Zilch. Zip. Nada.

 

So everyone happily skips down the Fire Control trees, researching bridge systems like there is no tommorrow. Of course with Deep Core Surveyors and ICE and other products, production skyrockets, faster than the ability of Fire Control to keep up. And because of the silence from years ago and all of the improvements in production, we've reached the point that battles involve tens of thousands of screen ships with fire control rates in the hundreds, which turns every battle into long drawn out slugfests to eliminate all the screen ships (well protected with Tckon armor so even they take quite a beating to knock down).

 

Now, all of the sudden and out of the blue you toss out a comment that, wouldn't you know it, there IS a tech that does exactly what we all wanted years ago (surprise, surprise). This comment only comes at the point that the game has bogged down into taking two+ days to run the turns due to all the screen and fighting activity. And then you follow it up with another comment (above) about it not being a complex tech and confirming that players HAVE gotten something back so they know what the tech is. And you refuse to impart any more information about something you claim to be merely hard to see. After 5 years of research and no one discovering it until recently, it's not hard to see. This is the proverbial blind man searching for a Q-tip in a dark room full of cotton balls.

 

So let me ask very plainly .. why in the heck did you put out your comments? If you had kept quiet, the game would have gone on as is. People would start getting the tech through no help from you on their recent turns as you pointed out. And from there it would (slowly) get out to others in groups or teams, or eventually be viewed by others in combat and recognized. So why did you decided to toss the whole game into a tizzy about this potential tech? Every race now knows it exists and you've taken away some of the advantage any discoverer would get from finding it first by confirming some folks have found it. Why keep your silence for 3+ years about this, only to blurt things out on the eve of discovery, and then refuse to follow up with posting what the tech is, leaving it dangling out there for the not-have players?

 

And that is why I am annoyed. You stepped out of the role as a GM, hinted at something that players would soon discover, confirmed it is out there and some players know of it finaly after years of silence on its existence from you, and yet after all this, you won't share the information. You could have kept quiet, and not thrown the game into a tizzy and no one would be the wiser until they uncovered it for themselves. So why did you speak up now of all time? Why?

 

Mr. Downer

 

Oh, and yes, I expect a few folks may take me to task for this post. But I add I did not say I an angry or upset or engorged with rage (actually saw somebody post that one once .. always will remember it). Just annoyed, planning no other action that posting this question, and I am NOT intending it to be hostile. If you see that in my writing it's because I suck at communications.

[SargonKingOfSlith]

Well, I'm just happy to see we finally have a serious discussion on the board.

 

And a little bit of Pete-bashing is always a good healthy part of any discussion.

[SargonKingOfSlith]

OK - here's another random thought.

 

What if we are looking at the wrong side of the battle. Instead of some holy-grail technology that lets us shoot down 100's of screen ships at a time, or something that lets us ignore the screen ships and target the capitol ships. What if there is a ship component that fools the enemy into thinking you have 1000's of screen ships when you don't. Something like a rack full of practice target drones or ECM spoofing.

 

This would save you from actually having to build 1000's of screen ships.

 

Is that outside the box? Or is it just out?

[WKE235]

OK - here's another random thought.

 

What if we are looking at the wrong side of the battle. Instead of some holy-grail technology that lets us shoot down 100's of screen ships at a time, or something that lets us ignore the screen ships and target the capitol ships. What if there is a ship component that fools the enemy into thinking you have 1000's of screen ships when you don't. Something like a rack full of practice target drones or ECM spoofing.

 

This would save you from actually having to build 1000's of screen ships.

 

Is that outside the box? Or is it just out?

 

You mean try following the drone path, build on the Wild Weasel Drones which requires Standard Drone and Type A ECM ... Wild Weasel Drones are packed with electronics, and attempt to both jam enemy detection gear and masquerade as more capable units. This has the effect of increasing the survivability of your other deployed ordnance in an engagement, as enemy gunners may well target the Wild Weasel by mistake. On occasion a Wild Weasel can fool the enemy into thinking it is many Drones instead of just one.

 

Unfortunately the weapon states it counters Energy Discharge Weapons with an ECM of Good. Weighs in a 10 tons so you can pack quite a lot into a drone rack, and is great protection for other deployed items. It might lead up to some better type of general fleet protection. Might.

[El Capitan]

Yes, you did leave yourself wide open to be "taken to task" so I'll say this -- Pete never said that fire contol was the only way to deal with screens. In fact, he's always said "this is a good way, but not the only way". Actually, he says that about a lot of things but people only hear what they want to hear. You jumped on the fire control bandwagon because that's what everyone else was doing and you didn't want to be left behind and now you're bitter about it. Not enraged or thoroughly pissed off, just bitter.

 

Here's what I'm in a tiz about (and yes, this is a bit of a generalization but you get the point):

 

First, everyone starts crying on the board that it's way too easy for someone to get a couple of tech levels ahead, build a single massive war-mongering ship, and steamroll over everyone. Pete hints around that there are strategies (plural, as in more than one) to deal with this threat. People demand specifics and get angry when Pete is not forthcoming with an answer. So, the screen strategy is revealed.

 

A lot of players build screens. Everyone's happy. They love having them to defend their homeworld but when they run into an opponent's screens, they call foul and complain that the screens are too powerful and unbeatable. All of a sudden everyone's back on the board crying again that there's no way to defeat the screen tactic. Pete hints around that there are ways (pural, as in more than one) to deal with that as well. People demand specifics and get angry when Pete isn't forthcoming with an answer. Because most people are researching bridge systems anyway, he reveals this as ONE solution (as in there are other ways). Once again, everyone jumps on the bandwagon and rushes after higher level bridge systems.

 

Even though he said it before, Pete again lets us know that there are other ways to deal with screens. Not content with this, people demand specifics and get angry when Pete is not forthcoming with an answer. And now you want to blame Pete for all of this. He never once said that any one tactic was the Holy Grail of Supernova. Get over yourself.

[Lord Uriel]

After a careful look at the tech tree, I think I've figured it out.

 

What you need is to open 5th Generation Psychohistory. This tech will open up 1st Generation Galactic Encyclopedia, which gives you 10 randomly selected high-end techs.

[WKE235]

Yes, you did leave yourself wide open to be "taken to task" so I'll say this -- Pete never said that fire contol was the only way to deal with screens. In fact, he's always said "this is a good way, but not the only way". Actually, he says that about a lot of things but people only hear what they want to hear. You jumped on the fire control bandwagon because that's what everyone else was doing and you didn't want to be left behind and now you're bitter about it. Not enraged or thoroughly pissed off, just bitter.

 

Yep, I'm a bitter old sucker. I subscribe to Louis Blacks "Good Guys Finish last, but (*%'s live forever" theory. I just need a yard so I can yell at the whipper snappers who step on my grass, and I'll be around for a long time.

 

Anyway, you are right Pete has stated that there are multiple ways to do things. But you miss the point of my annoyance. While all the rest of the time Pete has said there are multiple ways to do "X", this time, for the first time, he blurted out that a tech exists TO accomplish a certain function we have all wanted, and then followed that up with another blurb about some people actually getting the tech on their turns. Heck, if it wasn't for the second post, I would have kept quiet. But he basically stood up on a soapbox yelling out "Hey, there is another tech out there that works that gets past the screenies"! He puts on the board out of the blue that a way "X" does exist and follows it up with another note that some people have seen this on their lists .. when no one has admitted to such. He has never done that before and has always been careful to avoid giving anything away unless needed. So my annoyance is he has stepped outside his normal zen-master "think out of the box, there are many paths to enlightenment" mode". And in doing so he put thoughts out there on a tech, and did so before others mentioned it or discovered it through "hard work". My question remains as to why of all times did he pick now to mention this specific tech DOES exist, when always previously it was silence or a zen like "you must seek your own way grasshopper" type of approach.

[RTGPete]

Well, this issue isn't exactly a secret--there has been tons of discussion on it for quite a while. I was asked to provide some sort of comment, and I decided to do so. I've done the same on other issues, and probably will again in the future. Sometimes I give more info, sometimes less. Sometimes cryptic, sometimes I spell things out. I don't see anything particularly unique about this area. In the case of the specific comments I made a few posts back, I was just joking around - Razor Wire, Advanced Consumer Goods, Advanced Plantfoods, Cow Catapults....all have been the butt end of jokes over the years. Just a bit of levity in a Galaxy Gone Mad

[Lord Deependra]

Just like real life, new technology transforms warfare.