Players to Police Cheating Players

[Doctor Strangemind]

So the Baltic States quick conquest of Moscow appears “suspicious” because there didn’t appear to be any defense set up to protect the capitol city. Looks like “collusion” because Central Russia must have moved his army out of the way to set a clear path for an easy Baltic’s victory. How are we to look at what happened in Stalingrad? The city fell in two turns with no defense set up to stop it. Why doesn’t that look suspicious? I mean Southern Russia must have seen Baltic’s coming, it was in the news after all and Baltic’s advance had been discussed on this forum for some time now. Isn’t it odd that there was no defense set up to stop this Blitzkrieg on Stalingrad? Was this collusion? No, we know that is not the case for Stalingrad so then why the suspicion and Moral outrage about Moscow? As Monk pointed out and all Veterans of Victory should know that with a good plan and good fortune what Baltic’s has accomplished is not impossible without “cheating.” Sounds like class warfare and jealousy of someone who appears to have had it easier than the rest of us. TAX THE RICH!!!

 

Or maybe Southern Russia has been feeling a bit foolish for not defending his northern border when he should have seen this coming. Instead of eating humble pie he got pissed off, wants revenge and is now crying “foul” and calling for a worldwide jihad against the opponent that just wounded his ego and threw a wet blanket on his own plans for world domination. Humble pie really doesn’t taste that bad, just ask Sponge Bob. And speaking of Sponge Bob isn’t ironic that he is the voice of reason and wisdom on this post.

 

Doctor Strangemind

[Guest Spongebob]

So the Baltic States quick conquest of Moscow appears “suspicious” because there didn’t appear to be any defense set up to protect the capitol city. Looks like “collusion” because Central Russia must have moved his army out of the way to set a clear path for an easy Baltic’s victory. How are we to look at what happened in Stalingrad? The city fell in two turns with no defense set up to stop it. Why doesn’t that look suspicious? I mean Southern Russia must have seen Baltic’s coming, it was in the news after all and Baltic’s advance had been discussed on this forum for some time now. Isn’t it odd that there was no defense set up to stop this Blitzkrieg on Stalingrad? Was this collusion? No, we know that is not the case for Stalingrad so then why the suspicion and Moral outrage about Moscow? As Monk pointed out and all Veterans of Victory should know that with a good plan and good fortune what Baltic’s has accomplished is not impossible without “cheating.” Sounds like class warfare and jealousy of someone who appears to have had it easier than the rest of us. TAX THE RICH!!!

 

Or maybe Southern Russia has been feeling a bit foolish for not defending his northern border when he should have seen this coming. Instead of eating humble pie he got pissed off, wants revenge and is now crying “foul” and calling for a worldwide jihad against the opponent that just wounded his ego and threw a wet blanket on his own plans for world domination. Humble pie really doesn’t taste that bad, just ask Sponge Bob. And speaking of Sponge Bob isn’t ironic that he is the voice of reason and wisdom on this post.

 

Doctor Strangemind

 

I have said it many times, Spongebob is just a character, you know when its me speaking. So can we put this toxic topic to bed now so I can get back to insulting the Monk

[Marklen X]

I have sympathy for players who suffer at the hands of unscrupulous folks, but there is no proof of that here. I am all for policing our own, and have done so to my detriment in other games. It is possible that BS has taken unfair advantage, but it is just as possible he has just been lucky.

 

Stalingrad, a case could be made against you also. You have had your capitol occupied, and yet you continue to march south. A cynic could make a case that you were merely a puppet of the Egyptians and are willing to lose your own country as long as you can help out Egypt. I do not believe that, but I am just pointing out, that just because you do not like what another guy does, does not neccesarily mean the other guy is cheating.

 

If you can provide some sort of evidence, other that he just moved very fast, I will happily join your cause. As I said in my personal message to you, I can't abide cheaters. But there is a dearth of that evidence so far.

[Tom the Red]

The Viking alliance will continue our struggle against the cheater nations of Lowlands, France, Portugal, Spain, England, Ireland, Baltic States, Northern Russia, Iceland, and Canada. This game is such a farce! We will DW all cheaters we can. If we all work against them we can force a lessen.

 

Tom the Red

 

 

And the traiter Switzerland!

 

Tom The Red

[Takeda]

The Viking alliance will continue our struggle against the cheater nations of Lowlands, France, Portugal, Spain, England, Ireland, Baltic States, Northern Russia, Iceland, and Canada. This game is such a farce! We will DW all cheaters we can. If we all work against them we can force a lessen.

 

Tom the Red

 

 

And the traiter Switzerland!

 

Tom The Red

 

Tom,

 

Which games is this?

 

Takeda

[Slicer]

The Viking alliance will continue our struggle against the cheater nations of Lowlands, France, Portugal, Spain, England, Ireland, Baltic States, Northern Russia, Iceland, and Canada. This game is such a farce! We will DW all cheaters we can. If we all work against them we can force a lessen.

 

Tom the Red

 

 

And the traiter Switzerland!

 

Tom The Red

 

Tom,

 

Which games is this?

 

Takeda

 

Takeda,

 

Who cares? His rants are...to be kind...sort of pointless.

 

Slicer

[Kurassier]

Yeah I ran into this in game 83 too. A certain player gobbled up Iraq in like 3 turns then he gobbled up Turkey until Southern attacked Turkey also, and Turkey suddenly came to life and focused everything on Southern totally ignoring the attacks by Persia that were gutting him.

 

There was another player in game 83 that was going around and recruiting everyone to go after that guy playing Persia 83 and his TA who was playing Syria 83 because he felt they had done something similar in a previous game. He played Central Russia 83.

 

This same player started recruiting people again at the beginning of game 84, to go after the same two players in game 84. I wonder if anyone can guess who the two players being targeted were? Can you also guess who was trying to recruit people to kill them in 83 and game 84? I think Monk can guess because that guy went after Monk also I am told. Guesses anyone? Want to guess what country this guy was playing in game 84?

 

Race Pilsner

 

I'm only responding to this because I am mentioned (Syria 83). I have no idea what you are talking about. Game 83 was simple for me, Turkey and Iraq (both of whom I don't know) offered me a blind ALL, quite early, since I knew that TJ, Egypt and Saudi were TAs, I quickly accepted to protect my back, and then I attacked TJ.

Have no idea what you are talking about for prior games.

As for the record, I do not believe I have ever done anything unethical in this game. In fact, a certain player (whom I don't feel neccessary to name at the moment) offered to have his TA group 'give' us (my TAs group) his and his TAs countries, if we would do the same for him in Game 84. We politely declined as we felt that was against the integrity of the game of Victory, and against they way I play the game. (keeping in mind, it is just a game, and I don't bear any ill will at all towards the person at this time)

I believe that anybody who has been my TA in the past or present can vouch for that and the fact that I am and always will be a team player.

 

Anyway, that's all I have to say. Good gaming to all!

 

The Viking alliance will continue our struggle against the cheater nations of Lowlands, France, Portugal, Spain, England, Ireland, Baltic States, Northern Russia, Iceland, and Canada. This game is such a farce! We will DW all cheaters we can. If we all work against them we can force a lessen.

 

Tom the Red

And the traiter Switzerland!

 

Tom The Red

 

Umm, you off your meds again Tom?? As I know you can't point to a single thing that I (Spain84) have done that would even remotely be considered cheating.

Have a drink and relax.

[Stalingrad V80]

Or maybe Southern Russia has been feeling a bit foolish for not defending his northern border when he should have seen this coming. Instead of eating humble pie he got pissed off, wants revenge and is now crying “foul” and calling for a worldwide jihad against the opponent that just wounded his ego and threw a wet blanket on his own plans for world domination. Humble pie really doesn’t taste that bad, just ask Sponge Bob. And speaking of Sponge Bob isn’t ironic that he is the voice of reason and wisdom on this post.

 

Doctor Strangemind

 

Good try Baltics or whomever you are. I am prepared for his visit. It is also funny how CRussia readily accepted my offer of an ALL then NEVER communicated with me again. hmmm....

 

Do the math, plot it out. Let the players decide based on the world news announcements alone.

 

Regardless of his impact on my holdings, if we, the players, continue to accept this sort of behavior then expect it to be done to you and expect it to become the normal part of play, sign up for 2,3 or 4 positions as mules with "dummy placeholder players" and allow controlled conquering for the main position. Simple. If we let it continue we deserve what we get.

 

N.

[desfeeney]

However, we should address the problem and the question. If it seems obvious that the Baltics has stormed through seemingly unprotected provinces, taking key cities and is way further than he could realistically be after 15 turns, what are we, as the players, going to do about it if we have to police ourselves?

 

Stalingrad's idea of all other players DW on him and then forcing peace on him would be justice.

 

However, there are many more players who have more experience than I dealing with this (this is my third game) and they have to have some suggestions and recommendations on how to keep OUR game honest.

 

If I cannot believe that this game is honest, or cannot be kept honest, I have no interest in playing what is an otherwise excellent game.

 

Of course, maybe the Baltics and Central Russia (he has to be in collusion) players will man up and let us know who they are and why they did what they did so before "parking lot" justice is applied, they can state their case.

 

Just how many countries would have to DW on him/them before the force peace option, and morale being so low they could never DW again, would work?

 

King Zarkon

 

"My country deals with theft by cutting off hands, we have an amazingly low theft rate too"

 

 

 

Zarkon has posed the challenge to Baltics and Central Russia to man up and explain their actions.

I know who the Baltic player is.

I don't know the identity of the Central Russia player.

Although the Baltic player has contributed to this Forum, he has not answered Zarkon's challenge.

 

I'll give him and the Central Russia player a couple of days to respond.

 

Cheers

 

Des Feeney

[Race Pilsner]

I admit to chosing to work with Northern to invade Central.

 

I also admit that I offered to drop in game 83 and let Des Feeney and his TA's conquer our countries, and in return his group should help myself and my Allies in game 84. Hey, can you blame me? They might have said yes!

 

Something that Des didn't know was that I and a couple allies had been placed next to another group in game 83 that had it in for two of his TA's in that game. We were all contacted before turn 1 and given the option to ally with them or be on the other side of the equation. Since two of my allies were new players, we opted as a group to work with that other group but it wasn't a lot of fun. My allies were getting taken out and I was some distance from them so I couldn't really help them. They were all dropping game 83 anyway. I stuck it out alone for awhile fighting with Des over his capitol (I won), but eventually I gave my country away to another vet player I have known for many years and knew to be dependable.

 

At about the time we were negotiating with des and his TA's, my allies and I joined game 84. That same guy from game 83 had already been talking to me about 84 and we started out with the understanding that I would work with Central and two of HIS allies.

 

I changed my mind before the game started after I contacted Northern. After negotiating with him I decided it made sense to work with Northern instead. I didn't really want a repeat of game 83 where I felt I was being fed a pretty negative load of grievences against some other players.

 

I don't doubt that Central felt two timed, but I felt he was taking too hard a line in a personal grudge. It helped me that I had also joined game 84 with two other players I feel are dependable and competent, nice to have dependable allies.

 

It's not hard to drive through long distances if you stack your units and run them through in waves. Mech and Armored units carry sufficient fuel to travel long distances without resupply. Upgrading Static's to Air divisions and stacking those units along with 3 SMR units (Mech or Armored) gives you the ability to sunder a broad front and run small units through the breach.

 

Central actually did have border defenses but he didn't have any after the first two provinces inside his border. From the information that Northern has gathered, it appears that Central had upgraded his original Statics to Motor units. Northern began running EM missions on Central the first turn. Central ran missions against Baltic States and I think against Northern. I had all my first builds in the middle of my country, nothing on the border. Northern had his on the border by his oil provinces in the east.

 

Northern did the DW against Central on the first day of turn 3 and attacked towards Yoshkarola with his heavy divisions.

 

Central chose to fortify his northern border with his army rather than his western border when he saw that.

 

I exploited that by dropping back a couple days on turn 4 and doing BPA/DW. On the previous turn I had railed my Air units to border cities and moved MECH units to border provinces or built new ones one province in from the border to complete the first wave.

 

I was successful in my BPA the first attempt and I drove three provinces into Central after he ran so that he ran blind the next turn. On turn 5 I was able to grab Moscow before he could respond. All he could do is build some LDB which were not enough to stop the MECH I attacked with to take xMoscow on turn 6. I had also attacked under Moscow to Yelnya which I also was able to take. I then pushed out East and North East to move the front away from Moscow, while also driving south towards Dnepro as rapidly as possible to keep Central off balance. Reenforcements moved in from Baltics to Moscow and then turned South.

 

I got a couple pretty angry emails that to be honest I ignored. Maybe it made me an enemy but I felt justified. I agree with Monk by the way, I think he is using an alias. If a player isn't being forthright he shouldn't expect loyalty.

 

Central didn't seem to do much the next turn or two and after that maybe turn 8 or 9 haven't seen any activity at all. Northern busted up the Army divisions that were north of Yoshkarola. There were 18 or so heavy units there. Northern feels Central was still moving divisions in for a few turns after his attack, maybe till turn 9 or 10 according to him.

 

I used exactly the same tactic by the way against Southern Russia. I captured xDnepro on turn 12 but my units were advancing in a wave so I actually went beyond Dnepropetrovsk capturing the provinces SE of it the same turn and on turn 13 the cities within those provinces so I had rail access.

 

On turn 14 I railed replacements and supplies to a supply depot and connected the adjoining provinces so I could draw my units to 100% and resupply them. Stalingrad V80 is quite correct, they were "untouched" or looked so anyway. In reality none of them had been greater than 50% and had to be drawn back up in readyness for a turn 15 attack on Stalingrad. That's why some were Green.

 

Not sure if that answered all the accusations, if not I probably don't care all that much anyway.

 

Race Pilsner

Baltic States 84

[desfeeney]

I admit to chosing to work with Northern to invade Central.

 

I also admit that I offered to drop in game 83 and let Des Feeney and his TA's conquer our countries, and in return his group should help myself and my Allies in game 84. Hey, can you blame me? They might have said yes!

 

Something that Des didn't know was that I and a couple allies had been placed next to another group in game 83 that had it in for two of his TA's in that game. We were all contacted before turn 1 and given the option to ally with them or be on the other side of the equation. Since two of my allies were new players, we opted as a group to work with that other group but it wasn't a lot of fun. My allies were getting taken out and I was some distance from them so I couldn't really help them. They were all dropping game 83 anyway. I stuck it out alone for awhile fighting with Des over his capitol (I won), but eventually I gave my country away to another vet player I have known for many years and knew to be dependable.

 

At about the time we were negotiating with des and his TA's, my allies and I joined game 84. That same guy from game 83 had already been talking to me about 84 and we started out with the understanding that I would work with Central and two of HIS allies.

 

I changed my mind before the game started after I contacted Northern. After negotiating with him I decided it made sense to work with Northern instead. I didn't really want a repeat of game 83 where I felt I was being fed a pretty negative load of grievences against some other players.

 

I don't doubt that Central felt two timed, but I felt he was taking too hard a line in a personal grudge. It helped me that I had also joined game 84 with two other players I feel are dependable and competent, nice to have dependable allies.

 

It's not hard to drive through long distances if you stack your units and run them through in waves. Mech and Armored units carry sufficient fuel to travel long distances without resupply. Upgrading Static's to Air divisions and stacking those units along with 3 SMR units (Mech or Armored) gives you the ability to sunder a broad front and run small units through the breach.

 

Central actually did have border defenses but he didn't have any after the first two provinces inside his border. From the information that Northern has gathered, it appears that Central had upgraded his original Statics to Motor units. Northern began running EM missions on Central the first turn. Central ran missions against Baltic States and I think against Northern. I had all my first builds in the middle of my country, nothing on the border. Northern had his on the border by his oil provinces in the east.

 

Northern did the DW against Central on the first day of turn 3 and attacked towards Yoshkarola with his heavy divisions.

 

Central chose to fortify his northern border with his army rather than his western border when he saw that.

 

I exploited that by dropping back a couple days on turn 4 and doing BPA/DW. On the previous turn I had railed my Air units to border cities and moved MECH units to border provinces or built new ones one province in from the border to complete the first wave.

 

I was successful in my BPA the first attempt and I drove three provinces into Central after he ran so that he ran blind the next turn. On turn 5 I was able to grab Moscow before he could respond. All he could do is build some LDB which were not enough to stop the MECH I attacked with to take xMoscow on turn 6. I had also attacked under Moscow to Yelnya which I also was able to take. I then pushed out East and North East to move the front away from Moscow, while also driving south towards Dnepro as rapidly as possible to keep Central off balance. Reenforcements moved in from Baltics to Moscow and then turned South.

 

I got a couple pretty angry emails that to be honest I ignored. Maybe it made me an enemy but I felt justified. I agree with Monk by the way, I think he is using an alias. If a player isn't being forthright he shouldn't expect loyalty.

 

Central didn't seem to do much the next turn or two and after that maybe turn 8 or 9 haven't seen any activity at all. Northern busted up the Army divisions that were north of Yoshkarola. There were 18 or so heavy units there. Northern feels Central was still moving divisions in for a few turns after his attack, maybe till turn 9 or 10 according to him.

 

I used exactly the same tactic by the way against Southern Russia. I captured xDnepro on turn 12 but my units were advancing in a wave so I actually went beyond Dnepropetrovsk capturing the provinces SE of it the same turn and on turn 13 the cities within those provinces so I had rail access.

 

On turn 14 I railed replacements and supplies to a supply depot and connected the adjoining provinces so I could draw my units to 100% and resupply them. Stalingrad V80 is quite correct, they were "untouched" or looked so anyway. In reality none of them had been greater than 50% and had to be drawn back up in readyness for a turn 15 attack on Stalingrad. That's why some were Green.

 

Not sure if that answered all the accusations, if not I probably don't care all that much anyway.

 

Race Pilsner

Baltic States 84

 

 

G'day Race

 

Well done.

Despite everything that has gone before, you have gone up in my estimation.

 

Cheers

 

Des Feeney

[Tom the Red]

Two of us have declared war on the cheater Baltic States. Next turn I will also declare war on the cheater Canada!

 

To bad Lowlands your attack failed. Now it's my turn.

I will have your other cities so I can use your stockpile now that I have it!

 

Tom the Red

[Stalingrad V80]

Not sure if that answered all the accusations, if not I probably don't care all that much anyway.

 

Race Pilsner

Baltic States 84

 

I suppose if you do not have to worry about your flanks or any form of counter attack, CRuss was actively helping you waltz thru his country by removing all obstacles prior to your arrival, then the perfectly aligned scenario you outlined is statistically possible. In fact, it could even be considered likely, considering that even the computer fights harder than the resistance you encountered.

 

It is also not surprising that you "don't care all that much anyway". Gaming integrity and ethics do not seem to be hindering your choices in any way.

 

I have received a surprising amount of email responses on this topic. For purposes of disclosure of evidence to the jury of players, here is a VERBATIM copy of his offer to another player in Game 83, which was refused.

 

"A commitment that extends so far as to hand our nations over to you and xxxxxx and xxxxxxx and your TA xxxxxx who I don't know from previous games, in return for your word that you will do the same for us in 84. That way your team can kick Monk's ass in 83 and we can kick his ass in 84. That is the statement we wish to make to him. We would of course never admit this plan to anyone outside our close knit group. We would ask your team also to never admit it. You would crush us and we would make appropriate bleating noises in 83 before we drop. In 84 you could just join with privacy on if you preferred and we wouldn't lord our success over you on the forums. If you don't want to take this deal, which to be honest would baffle me since it's a good deal, I will hold no animosity. We will still join 84, with more friends now obviously since we see what Monk is up to and several of my friends from work are interested in the game, but we would continue to fight in 83 rather than work for your victory in the game.

This is what could happen in 83 if your team agrees: ..... "

 

and it goes on from there outling in detail how and when various countries would empty cities to allow for rapid take over, etc.

 

"I know you will wonder if I am being honest. I am. I'm not doing this as a vendetta, which it probably sounds like. I'm simply doing it because it would be far more fun to kick Monk's twisted ass that anyone else in Victory I have ever met. I hope you see I am doing it for the fun of it, not due to some dark hateful feelings. This is a game and I play it for fun, not to get hard feelings. I truly want you and xxxxxx and xxxxxxx and xxxxxx to not only win game 83 but to freakin set records for the best game ever in those nations. We would like to do the same in 84."

 

Technically, sure this sort of behavior is within the exact ruleset of the game. The fact the someone could recruit in a friend from work then HELP them allow you to absorb their country with ease is also TECHNICALLY within the rules. I do not think your chosen style of play is shared by, nor approved by, the majority of players of this game. Although you may find playing through manipulations of rules, loopholes and grey areas to be FUN, I believe it serves only to confirm the existence of yet another pathetic player.

 

PBEM is a worthwhile hobby, when played with forthright honesty, integrity and within the spirit of the game. If the players in 84 choose not to shut you down through DW's and forced peace, then you will likely have successfully purchased yourself a win.

 

Not sure if that clarified my stance on all the issues, if not I actually DO care all that much anyway.

[Race Pilsner]

Yes I said all that as I have acknowledged before. At the time it seemed justified, given the things I and my friends were being told.

I have since renounced any affiliation with the entity promoting all the hard feelings as I have also said before, and my apologies to Dark Monk for listening to

someone dishing you.

 

Next time build more defenses than two puny paratrooper regiments V80, maybe then you will have more to throw at me than this feeble attempt at forum diplomacy. Ready for me indeed.

I was going to stop at Stalingrad but now I think I will rape and pillage your countryside awhile, just for kicks.

 

Race Pilsner

[Race Pilsner]

Two of us have declared war on the cheater Baltic States. Next turn I will also declare war on the cheater Canada!

 

To bad Lowlands your attack failed. Now it's my turn.

I will have your other cities so I can use your stockpile now that I have it!

 

Tom the Red

 

You guys should think for yourselves. It will not benefit you to come to blows with Baltic States.

 

Race Pilsner