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Gate-tech changes


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So, how does everyone feel about the new changes in gate-tech?

 

Personally I think the loss rates with the Mk III Ugates are high, but until the Mk VI version of the Ugate has been developed and deployed (on both ends of the transit path) I think that it's a bit early to dispel them as being totally useless.

 

Hopefully all the cheats that have been rumored to be associated with gate tech have been remedied now. No more unpowered gates being able to transfer materials.... no more being able to gate material even without a gate being built. I'm wondering if the same can be said regarding Stable Wormholes? My understanding is that they are not automated as the new gate tech is. Could it be possible for abuses to have cropped up with them? I guess if there are ways to abuse the system, people will do so and eventually it will be common knowledge and will get fixed. Let's hope that SWH's were also reviewed for abuse when the gate tech was being updated/fixed. I'd hate to see a 9x bonus ground base come flying through a SWH connection

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Personally what I am most worried about and what I hope Pete disallows is using Gate and 100% loss to destroy all your HW assests before they are captured by a conquering victor. If players are allowed to start using this to prevent their HWs from being captured I might as well just Nova their systems and get it over with.

 

I think Pete is on the ball with these changes and that it is too early to cry wolf untill we've seen the results of the higher techs. I am doing a lot of transfer tests with my buddies and when the summer is over I will try and share what I have found.

 

I think what upsets people is that they for once didn't expect Pete to implement his changes as soon as he did as in the past some changes he has said he implemented...didn't really implement or not in the manner it was implied.

 

Anyways, it is summer, it is warm and all the females are wearing way less clothes so let's all be happy for that!

 

 

:laugh:

 

/Locklyn

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The changes effect everyone, not just one position...it makes some things less easy...guess if you really want to be sure all the material makes it to its destination , build a few big freighters and send some hulking huge escorts with it......no big deal , just less convenient . It does insure that each position is pretty on its own and more independent from others . Darn , I did not want to spend research on next level gates , plenty of other toys to research......

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Personally what I am most worried about and what I hope Pete disallows is using Gate and 100% loss to destroy all your HW assests before they are captured by a conquering victor. If players are allowed to start using this to prevent their HWs from being captured I might as well just Nova their systems and get it over with.

 

I think Pete is on the ball with these changes and that it is too early to cry wolf untill we've seen the results of the higher techs. I am doing a lot of transfer tests with my buddies and when the summer is over I will try and share what I have found.

 

I think what upsets people is that they for once didn't expect Pete to implement his changes as soon as he did as in the past some changes he has said he implemented...didn't really implement or not in the manner it was implied.

 

Anyways, it is summer, it is warm and all the females are wearing way less clothes so let's all be happy for that!

 

 

:thumbsup:

 

/Locklyn

 

Following the principles laid out by Niccolo Machiavelli, I can not let any of MY HW's fall into enemy hands thereby increasing the enemies power. Therefore I WILL gate out every thing at the HW of any besieged HW. This is a principle of WAR used over and over again in war through out history. Burn crops, blow up buildings, destroy anything the enemy can use, then retreat.

 

IF the game master is going to disallow use of gates for this purpose, HE SHOULD let us know NOW

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I too am ok with the changes, except for the harsh gate tax.

 

I was expecting 3 percent to 50 percent loss between Hw's that found each other, and as high as 100 percent for the odd pairing that was a long ways apart in actual distance not warp points, but 100 percent loss for 90 percent of the HW's, that is too much for me and makes me question why the gate tax is so high? But then did Pete really mean it when he said it was to punish players that abused the system?

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Personally what I am most worried about and what I hope Pete disallows is using Gate and 100% loss to destroy all your HW assests before they are captured by a conquering victor. If players are allowed to start using this to prevent their HWs from being captured I might as well just Nova their systems and get it over with.

 

I think Pete is on the ball with these changes and that it is too early to cry wolf untill we've seen the results of the higher techs. I am doing a lot of transfer tests with my buddies and when the summer is over I will try and share what I have found.

 

I think what upsets people is that they for once didn't expect Pete to implement his changes as soon as he did as in the past some changes he has said he implemented...didn't really implement or not in the manner it was implied.

 

Anyways, it is summer, it is warm and all the females are wearing way less clothes so let's all be happy for that!

 

 

:thumbsup:

 

/Locklyn

 

Just for discussion sake....what is the difference in doing the gate transfers at 100% loss now and doing them later? If Pete puts the limit in the game then it should apply in all situations and not just what benefits one group. It is my rexpress intention, that if my group decides that the game is now no longer interesting to us, to begin the immediate

destruction of our assets through the 100% gate tax. I would consider it less than honorable for RTG to reinstate those destroyed assets.

 

The loss rate is not a matter of speed of implementation but instead that I had assurances that the gate tax (as I call it) would not be unreasonable. As Gary has pointed out it

is extremely harsh. In talking with RTG previously about gates (something we have had for years), we were informed that one way to estimate X,Y,Z distance was the grade of the seperating warp point. In a previous post I provided the results of a transfer through an "A" warp point of 13%. I am sorry but that is unreasonable.

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I love the "changes". I wish that these rules had been in effect from the start.

 

Getting to transport billions upon billions of tons of resources turn after turn after turn over unlimited distances at a comparatively extremely low cost without any risk or fear of loss and being able to bypass all intervening forces was a game breaker. Having tight restrictions on this phenomenal tech is not a game breaker. When used in the right situations, they can still be a great asset.

 

However, I would also like to see Pete do something to make sure they are not used to vaporize all of the pop off of a world.

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Remember that Pete has also put another three (3) generations of Gate technology to be achieved to render smaller losses. The tech was not working as intended and he has now fixed it. It was a good run while it was dysfunctional, more for some than others and some abused it. Pete seems now to have restored Gates to the way his vision of them was. Yes, we need to research more levels to get the max cap of losses but so it is with all our techs.

 

As for destroying Pop and resources with intent, that was never possible before Gate technology and I am assuming Pete did not envision gate tech being used for that sole purpose. Do what I have, I have designated Alpha sites within nice range of my HW. Should it seem there is a risk for it falling, I would TR out everything to one of my Alpha Sites and come back with a vengeance. Prepare your Alpha sites by ICEing them, building defenses and landing a garrison there and suddenly you are still a contender. Think aggressively, Think that you are going to fight with every inch of your empire and you will have fun.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

/Locklyn

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Remember that Pete has also put another three (3) generations of Gate technology to be achieved to render smaller losses. The tech was not working as intended and he has now fixed it. It was a good run while it was dysfunctional, more for some than others and some abused it. Pete seems now to have restored Gates to the way his vision of them was. Yes, we need to research more levels to get the max cap of losses but so it is with all our techs.

 

As for destroying Pop and resources with intent, that was never possible before Gate technology and I am assuming Pete did not envision gate tech being used for that sole purpose. Do what I have, I have designated Alpha sites within nice range of my HW. Should it seem there is a risk for it falling, I would TR out everything to one of my Alpha Sites and come back with a vengeance. Prepare your Alpha sites by ICEing them, building defenses and landing a garrison there and suddenly you are still a contender. Think aggressively, Think that you are going to fight with every inch of your empire and you will have fun./Locklyn

 

So at what level of loss should Pete consider gating out the HW material to much intent to destroy and disallow it? You see how tricky this is? Lets say you set-up an alpha site but the loss rate is 20%? Allowed or not? What about 50% 90%? Exactly when should Pete intervene and consider you are wasting resources rather than trying to save what you can for an eventual return?

 

What about multiple gates? The HW under attack gates items with a 10% loss to planet X which is not threatened. And then from "X" the player gates the materials to planet "Y" at a 60% loss? How would Pete determine that the player is tossing away the resources? Lets toss a third gate in the mix, maybe a fourth? How does Pete intervene to say "you being wasteful just to keep "X" from taking your planet"?

 

Any rule he might set-up to limit HW transfers can be gotten around with a little extra building of gates and tech. And by the time your building gates, well, you can afford multiples here and there.

 

Now, I wouldn't mind the gates being programmed to disallow 100% loss ALL THE TIME. Say you try to transfer from A to B and it's going to cause 100% loss. The system could shut down and give you a warning message. Hmmm .. maybe even change it so you can set (for your empire) a loss threshhold. Say I set it to 20%. Then any gate would not transfer if I attempted to move items from A to B and the loss rate would exceed 20%. That makes pratical sense from a gate operations perspective.

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Remember that Pete has also put another three (3) generations of Gate technology to be achieved to render smaller losses. The tech was not working as intended and he has now fixed it. It was a good run while it was dysfunctional, more for some than others and some abused it. Pete seems now to have restored Gates to the way his vision of them was. Yes, we need to research more levels to get the max cap of losses but so it is with all our techs.

 

As for destroying Pop and resources with intent, that was never possible before Gate technology and I am assuming Pete did not envision gate tech being used for that sole purpose. Do what I have, I have designated Alpha sites within nice range of my HW. Should it seem there is a risk for it falling, I would TR out everything to one of my Alpha Sites and come back with a vengeance. Prepare your Alpha sites by ICEing them, building defenses and landing a garrison there and suddenly you are still a contender. Think aggressively, Think that you are going to fight with every inch of your empire and you will have fun.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

/Locklyn

 

Alpha sites are all setup, but the new loss rates put them at 100 percent loss. I guess I could put the alpha site IN the home system, or maybe just a different pop seg on same planet.

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Remember that Pete has also put another three (3) generations of Gate technology to be achieved to render smaller losses. The tech was not working as intended and he has now fixed it. It was a good run while it was dysfunctional, more for some than others and some abused it. Pete seems now to have restored Gates to the way his vision of them was. Yes, we need to research more levels to get the max cap of losses but so it is with all our techs.

 

As for destroying Pop and resources with intent, that was never possible before Gate technology and I am assuming Pete did not envision gate tech being used for that sole purpose. Do what I have, I have designated Alpha sites within nice range of my HW. Should it seem there is a risk for it falling, I would TR out everything to one of my Alpha Sites and come back with a vengeance. Prepare your Alpha sites by ICEing them, building defenses and landing a garrison there and suddenly you are still a contender. Think aggressively, Think that you are going to fight with every inch of your empire and you will have fun./Locklyn

 

So at what level of loss should Pete consider gating out the HW material to much intent to destroy and disallow it? You see how tricky this is? Lets say you set-up an alpha site but the loss rate is 20%? Allowed or not? What about 50% 90%? Exactly when should Pete intervene and consider you are wasting resources rather than trying to save what you can for an eventual return?

 

What about multiple gates? The HW under attack gates items with a 10% loss to planet X which is not threatened. And then from "X" the player gates the materials to planet "Y" at a 60% loss? How would Pete determine that the player is tossing away the resources? Lets toss a third gate in the mix, maybe a fourth? How does Pete intervene to say "you being wasteful just to keep "X" from taking your planet"?

 

Any rule he might set-up to limit HW transfers can be gotten around with a little extra building of gates and tech. And by the time your building gates, well, you can afford multiples here and there.

 

Now, I wouldn't mind the gates being programmed to disallow 100% loss ALL THE TIME. Say you try to transfer from A to B and it's going to cause 100% loss. The system could shut down and give you a warning message. Hmmm .. maybe even change it so you can set (for your empire) a loss threshhold. Say I set it to 20%. Then any gate would not transfer if I attempted to move items from A to B and the loss rate would exceed 20%. That makes pratical sense from a gate operations perspective.

 

 

Personally, I don't think I'd step into any sort of matter transmitter if I knew there was a >1% chance that I wouldn't come out the other end. And I wouldn't even be too keen on sending my luggage through.

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Remember that Pete has also put another three (3) generations of Gate technology to be achieved to render smaller losses. The tech was not working as intended and he has now fixed it. It was a good run while it was dysfunctional, more for some than others and some abused it. Pete seems now to have restored Gates to the way his vision of them was. Yes, we need to research more levels to get the max cap of losses but so it is with all our techs.

 

As for destroying Pop and resources with intent, that was never possible before Gate technology and I am assuming Pete did not envision gate tech being used for that sole purpose. Do what I have, I have designated Alpha sites within nice range of my HW. Should it seem there is a risk for it falling, I would TR out everything to one of my Alpha Sites and come back with a vengeance. Prepare your Alpha sites by ICEing them, building defenses and landing a garrison there and suddenly you are still a contender. Think aggressively, Think that you are going to fight with every inch of your empire and you will have fun.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

/Locklyn

 

 

Destroying everything in the fashion I am discussing was certainly possible through the jetison order through the following sequence LC/JETT through a convoy loop. Some assets might remain but not the important ones.

 

That Pete put in another 3 levels of gate technology is not an important point to the discussion. For years we have actively sought higher gate levels and have the horizon tech in

place.

 

THE issue is that the "fix" does correct the abuses but at the expense of the previously stated goals of U-Gates. I am going to be extremely open here. Because of the U-gate technology and the previous issues with convoys slowing down the game I based my entire strategy development on gate technology. Keep in mind that I was one of the first to

develop extremely fast thrust engines and warned RTG before it happened that convoys of hundreds/thousands of AP were possible. Nothing was done about this until recently (and I strongly suspect to make convoys workable in a processing sense with the most recent U-gate changes). I accepted the previous gate tax (3%) as being too low and

was amazed when the gate tax was completely removed. It was a mistake on RTGs part. It was a greater mistake to NOT put error checking in for transferring between pop segments after the empire had its U-gate available switch turned on by RTG.

 

If U-gates had followed a couple of simple concepts the abuses would not have happened. (1) Allow U/P-gate transfers ONLY between same empire pop segments (2) Make certain that the technology acts in the fashion that the ANZ or rules state.

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Destroying everything in the fashion I am discussing was certainly possible through the jetison order through the following sequence LC/JETT through a convoy loop. Some assets might remain but not the important ones.

 

That Pete put in another 3 levels of gate technology is not an important point to the discussion. For years we have actively sought higher gate levels and have the horizon tech in

place.

 

THE issue is that the "fix" does correct the abuses but at the expense of the previously stated goals of U-Gates. I am going to be extremely open here. Because of the U-gate technology and the previous issues with convoys slowing down the game I based my entire strategy development on gate technology. Keep in mind that I was one of the first to

develop extremely fast thrust engines and warned RTG before it happened that convoys of hundreds/thousands of AP were possible. Nothing was done about this until recently (and I strongly suspect to make convoys workable in a processing sense with the most recent U-gate changes). I accepted the previous gate tax (3%) as being too low and

was amazed when the gate tax was completely removed. It was a mistake on RTGs part. It was a greater mistake to NOT put error checking in for transferring between pop segments after the empire had its U-gate available switch turned on by RTG.

 

If U-gates had followed a couple of simple concepts the abuses would not have happened. (1) Allow U/P-gate transfers ONLY between same empire pop segments (2) Make certain that the technology acts in the fashion that the ANZ or rules state.

 

Lol, one guy tried that as I landed troops on his world, he forgot that convoy routes run AFTER actual orders so I had already GATKed the planet

 

A UG you could TR out efverything on order 1

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Lol, one guy tried that as I landed troops on his world, he forgot that convoy routes run AFTER actual orders so I had already GATKed the planet

 

A UG you could TR out efverything on order 1

 

The point of the transfer out death is that I plan to do it NOW leaving nothing of the position. Your opponent waiting to long has nothing to do with the basic point that it was possible to do with previous orders.

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