RTGRuss Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 Hello all, The current default Force Battle Plans are not exactly the best plans given the information presented in the space combat primer Accordingly, we are considering changing those standard plans to better ones (see PDF doc). These changes would go in for all existing Column Attack, Englobe and Total Defense FBPs. Any changes to the standard plan made by a given empire would be overwritten by new plans (players who have made such adjustments can contact us if they want said adjustments to carry over, etc.) Some notes to consider in evaluating the proposed plans... 1) There are 3 primary factors to consider when choosing a deployment location for a given class of units. Target Selection - The lower the deployment location #, the greater the chance of being selected as a target (#1 may be consider front line duty, #12 is rear area). Units in rear area locations are not immune to being targeted, the chances are just reduced. Other targeting factors may be in effect (# of units on your side, special equipment, etc.) but this is a basic targeting consideration. Offensive Firepower - The lower the deployment location #, the greater percentage of available firepower a unit will bring to bear in a given combat round (100% for location #1 to about 50% for #12). So...the closer you deploy the more firepower you bring to bear and the more likely you are to be targeted. Defense Factor - The higher the deployment location #, the lower the damage you will take if your unit happens to be targeted in a given combat round(again..100% at loc #1 to about 50% at #12). So...the further back you are, the less damage you take when targeted and the less likely you are to be targeted - offset by the fact that you'll be dishing out less damage yourself as well. 2) Fighters and Drones are not influenced by the deployment location of their base units. They always attack at 100% firepower (they have drawbacks as noted in the space combat primer as well). Accordingly, you may place your carrier and drone units further back to protect them somewhat without effecting your fighter/drones. 3) The combat situation for the attacker in a warp point assault is heavily influenced by the jump order that transiting units come through the warp point (and the size of said warp point). The Jump Order chart on pg 5-4 of the rules is the one we'll be using for WP assaults (we'll include it in the final version of the space combat primer as well). The rules indicate that a random factor is at work but we've decided to eliminate that and go strickly by the jump order chart so that you can plan accordingly (and so that bad luck doesn't encourage some silly tanker captain to crowd in and make the initial transit on a WP assault... ) 4) Keep in mind that you also have full control over the Battle Formation designation of a given class of units. You may, for example, have carrier (fighter) units with heavy defensive and secondary offensive capabilities. You can give these units "V" (Carrier) formation designations and control them by varying the deployment location of your "V" (Carrier) formation (accepting the fixed jump order of that formation) or you can designate these units as any other formation ("A" (Assault), "B" (Battle Line), etc.) and control them via orders to those formations. Take a look at the proposed plans and let me know what you think (email, PM or here on this thread). Combat so far has been mostly small unit actions but those will be increasing and fleet actions are probably on the horizon so...we'd like to get any adjustments put in sooner rather than later Thanks much, Russ Force_Battle_Plan_Proposals.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan Elder 'Keen Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 On a side note, what is PDC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTGRuss Posted September 16, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 On a side note, what is PDC? Planetary Defense Center (surface fortress) Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azuth Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 I only have two questions right now about the Force Battle Plan (FBP). 1 - Since you can create your own FBP, is there a way to delete them too? 2 - When using the FORM order to create/edit an FBP, you can only change the attribute to ONE formation. If you want to custom design your own FBP that's costs 12 orders to do that, not to mention we'll probably want to have several different FBPs created. IMO we should be able to change the attributes for each Formation to a single FBP as one order. Just my two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 I like the idea of the changes being sooner than later, however it may take a few weeks to brainstorm as many "comments" about this. Could you give us an idea of when you would like all of the comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfelten Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Russ, right now it looks unbalanced in single unit combat. For example, ships with mission class O (Oscar = Auxiliary) are defaulting to deployment location 7. So do I understand correctly that if I have a single armed ship at deployment location 7, and the enemy has a single armed ship at deployment location 1, that I will only use a portion (~75%?) of my weapons while the enemy will use 100%? Doesn't it seem that if there is only 1 rank occupied, that those ships should fight at 100%? If it's 1 on 1 combat, both ships should be on equal footing. I understand that 2 dimensional combat system is not going to be highly "realistic", but I think that if there is only 1 occupied deployment location, that those ships should be "promoted" to rank 1 since they'll enjoy none of the benefits of being farther back and therefore shouldn't be penalized either. Otherwise we'll have to spend a tremendous amount of time micro- managing our fleets' defensive postures as we add ships, if I understand the system correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTGRuss Posted September 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 I only have two questions right now about the Force Battle Plan (FBP). 1 - Since you can create your own FBP, is there a way to delete them too? 2 - When using the FORM order to create/edit an FBP, you can only change the attribute to ONE formation. If you want to custom design your own FBP that's costs 12 orders to do that, not to mention we'll probably want to have several different FBPs created. IMO we should be able to change the attributes for each Formation to a single FBP as one order. Just my two cents. 1> Hmm...I don't believe we have something for that at the moment. Something we could probably add though (keep printout length down). 2> Right now that is the case. We are looking to expand that order a bit so you can change more information with a single order. Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTGRuss Posted September 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 I like the idea of the changes being sooner than later, however it may take a few weeks to brainstorm as many "comments" about this. Could you give us an idea of when you would like all of the comments? We'd like to put in the change to the default FBP plans either this cycle or next. Keep in mind that all we really need here are some solid "default" plans that folks can use. Special *top secret* battle plans of each empire could be developed from there Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTGRuss Posted September 17, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Doesn't it seem that if there is only 1 rank occupied, that those ships should fight at 100%? If it's 1 on 1 combat, both ships should be on equal footing. Remember to factor in the approximate damage dropoff based on deployment location as well. The unit in location #1 would fire at 100% but this would be reduced based on the target's location. As this is roughly equal to the firepower dropoff, the target's defensive bonus would reduce things about 25% so that the effective firepower is only about 75% The unit further out is firing at reduced firepower (75% in this example) but the target (at location #1) receives no defensive reduction so 100% of that firepower is applied. When all is said and done...both units are exchanging fire with roughly equal percentages (~75%). The effect of one unit being further back in a one-on-one battle is to increase the number of combat rounds required for resolution but the effect is the same as if they were both in location #1. Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfelten Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Are the special X, Y, & Y ranks of specific use, or just extra slots? If the latter, I would set them to deployment locations not otherwise represented in that Force Battle Plan. For example, in "COLUMN ATTACK" make them X=6, Y=7, Z=9. Question: Do "N (Non-Combatant)" or unarmed ships try to disengage immediately? For example, if I have a bunch of warships in front ranks and unarmed tankers and such in back ranks, will the warships try to buy the tankers time to disengage? What if I have an unarmed ship in a "combat" formation slot? Will it try to fight or flee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTGPete Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Are the special X, Y, & Y ranks of specific use, or just extra slots? If the latter, I would set them to deployment locations not otherwise represented in that Force Battle Plan. For example, in "COLUMN ATTACK" make them X=6, Y=7, Z=9. Question: Do "N (Non-Combatant)" or unarmed ships try to disengage immediately? For example, if I have a bunch of warships in front ranks and unarmed tankers and such in back ranks, will the warships try to buy the tankers time to disengage? What if I have an unarmed ship in a "combat" formation slot? Will it try to fight or flee? X, Y and Z are extras for use as you see fit - wild cards at your disposal. They act like the other formations in every respect. There is no disengagement distinction for "N (Non-Combatant)" class vessels - players can designate any kind of ship they like as "N" if they choose (it's a battleship, but you give it an "N" designation). Disengagement exists in the battle system to handle unusual cases rather than the vast majority of battles. You should expect almost every battle to run to conclusion, with no disengaging ships. In the case of a Pathfinder trying to kill 2,000,000 tons of unarmed cargo and colony ships, you might expect that many of the targeted vessels will get away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfelten Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 The X, Y, Z suggestion was with regard to the PDF that Russ posted for the default Force Battle Plans. So on disengagement, would a totally unarmed fleet of freighters try to run away or stand and die? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTGPete Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 They'd probably try to run away, but there are no guarantees as to what might happen--too many variables such as size of the attacking fleet and much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur Lord Tedric Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Firstly I'd be more than happy for the starting 3 FBPs to be more meaningful. I have another question though.... How can Surface Forces be placed in different deployment locations than where P is placed (because other ships could move 'around' them)? They can't move, so how can they be arranged? I assumed they would all default to P... I take it that Orbitals don't all default to K either? Puzzled Chief Warmaster to Ur-Lord Tedric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 Firstly I'd be more than happy for the starting 3 FBPs to be more meaningful. I have another question though.... How can Surface Forces be placed in different deployment locations than where P is placed (because other ships could move 'around' them)? They can't move, so how can they be arranged? I assumed they would all default to P... I take it that Orbitals don't all default to K either? Puzzled Chief Warmaster to Ur-Lord Tedric Good question Ur-Lord. I have had problems setting up Force Battle Plans as well. Would it be possible to get a recap of the orders (their sequence). I always assumed that the surface fortress was locked into P only since the attacker can place it anywhere he wants but your comment on ships circling would make a change possible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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