Lord Deependra Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 ur imagination is great but we all know that in this game the way this is supposed to work is this.. single ship fleet just appears on the other side of the warp point....... multiply ship fleets line up by deploc and bubble size and can not shoot nor be targeted until they come out the other side... so if i have a ship that is reduced to 5% because of a warp point assault imagine this... ship one has 100,000 shields and does 50,000 damage ship two has 100,000 shields and does 50,000 damage both are on deploc 1 with beam weapons.... ship one warps and causes a battle.. who wins? with the way things are now ship two wins... the way the program and naval combat modifier says it should happen is both ships will perish.... there should be no advantage for defending a warp point other than the times 3 for armor IF it is an orbital.. 1) We actually don't know how it is supposed to work. Battles are rather mysterious and much is hidden. 2) If my interpration of things is correct (and that is a big if), identical ships will destroy each other. Both are dealing 5% of their maximum damage in the first "round" (The attacker because he is at deploc 20000. The defender because the attacker is so far back at deploc 20000). In subsequent "rounds", they do full damage. Remember, first the system calculates the damage output of your ship based on your deploc and weapon type. For "beam" range weapons, take 10% off for each deploc greater than 1, down to a minimum of 5%.Then your firepower is split into chunks by your firepower and randomly assigned to enemy ships. The damage each of those ships takes depends on their deploc (take another 5% off for each deploc greater than 1) and any relevant defensive systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Deependra Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Of course, all this is idle speculation to pass the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highwayman Posted February 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 the deploc 20000 is only for ships that have yet to pass thru the warp point.. so if a battle finishes before they pass then they are at deploc 20000... and there should not ever be a 5% unless you have your ship on deploc 12 and it should be on 1 or some such place.. so i understand that this is all speculation to a point but i have done test battles and seen things work and seen things not work. such as one pulse battles almost never degrade their damage if they are on the wrong deploc. so i will continue to do my own test and my enemys are more than welcome to test with me if they want to understand the program better..... ie have battles that are by ships that are identical and such.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highwayman Posted February 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 nd you say you take 5% off for each deploc that you are off? well how about losing 50% for deploc 9? if i am figuring right that is only 8 locations off of #1 so is 40%.. and pete has mentioned to me that there is a cap on loss for deploc's.... Pete if you are reading this i would like either an explanation or to be told to figure it out myself plz...... i dont see how our scientist could do all that research and not know how hard our weapons will hit at different locations..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cestvel Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 nd you say you take 5% off for each deploc that you are off? well how about losing 50% for deploc 9? if i am figuring right that is only 8 locations off of #1 so is 40%.. and pete has mentioned to me that there is a cap on loss for deploc's.... Pete if you are reading this i would like either an explanation or to be told to figure it out myself plz...... i dont see how our scientist could do all that research and not know how hard our weapons will hit at different locations..... Afaik the cap is 5% consistent across defensive systems, deploc defense and offensive fire reduction by deploc deployment. It was so in the original Supernova as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Miles Avatar Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 The drop in firepower is 10% not 5% per DL so at DL 9 you would lose 80% of your firepower and this number is spot on with the info you provided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTGPete Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Ok, back after President's Day weekend. Ships at deploc 20,000 are clearly firing and being fired at, with significantly reduced effectiveness. This wasn't an issue for a very long time, but with fleet sizes growing substantially it could become troublesome. In some cases ships at deploc 20,000 are destroyed, fire back because both sides get to shoot, then they appear through the warp point because of the combat sequencing, are detected as destroyed, and the combat ends. Thus they display at deploc 1-12 (wherever they would normally be), destroyed, with their firepower figures listed with the deploc 20,000 reductions (because those values haven't been recalculated for dead ships). The space combat code is crazy complex, but I'm going to do what I can to ensure that ships at deploc 20,000 can neither be fired upon or fire back, at any effectiveness. Shots that would otherwise go against them need to go against whatever ships made it through. This can lead to infinite loop issues, and serious delays in combat resolution (real time) if there are a lot of ships involved, but fewer players are using the completely worthless 1,000 ton ship strategy any more, so hopefully that won't become a problem. Fighters and drones do not suffer or benefit from the deploc of their mother ships, so they can attack through a warp point assault at normal effectiveness. This can lead to a "drone strike" assault, but their ships will continue to come through normally, and once the assault fleet is destroyed, all of the fighters and drones will be destroyed along with them. They do get a nice front-loaded punch in those cases, but the attacking fleet is still vulnerable to destruction (unlike the old invulnerable drone strikes from SN II). One might imagine sending lots of small ships through to flood the warp point size, but this will have three effects. First, it will significantly slow down turn processing as such battles take a very, very long time to process. Second, it will not do any good in the end. The superior side always wins no matter what game-the-system tricks are employed. Third, if turn processing times becomes an issue because players are trying to gimmick the warp point assaults (gimmicks are almost always totally ineffective anyway -- they just delay the inevitable destruction of the assault force along with making turns take forever to run), I'll have to revisit the code to punish 1,000 ton ship strategies. I really don't want to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highwayman Posted February 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 thak you pete for your input and some clarification.. i just felt that if you are on the recieving end of a warp point assualt then you should always fire at your max and not get any reduction... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highwayman Posted February 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 BUT what i dont understand is why would the fleet that is defending the warp point be reduced to 5% if they are on the correct deploc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Deependra Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 BUT what i dont understand is why would the fleet that is defending the warp point be reduced to 5% if they are on the correct deploc? Because they are shooting at ships 20,000 deplocs away. They should report full firepower, but only 5% is applied against the enemy. And woohoo! I got it (mostly) right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Deependra Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Oh, and now we know how it works, I'm happy with it as it is. As I posted before, I can imagine ships firing down the wormhole tunnel, so that doesn't offend my sensibilities, and if one side is destroying ships with 5% of their firepower, that side is going to win anyway. I don't see this as changing the results, and I'm not really seeing any way to exploit it, so I am happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highwayman Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 and you still dont see what i am talking about..... this was a one ship fleet against a one ship fleet.... there should not have been any deploc 20000 and according to the battle report there was none.. BUT the defending fleet which did not go through the warp point only shot at 5% which should not have been the case...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Deependra Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 and you still dont see what i am talking about..... this was a one ship fleet against a one ship fleet.... there should not have been any deploc 20000 and according to the battle report there was none.. BUT the defending fleet which did not go through the warp point only shot at 5% which should not have been the case...... I think its just timing, and is only going to be noticeable when one side vastly outguns the other. In a roughly even battle, it won't be an issue. Get your own ginormous ships out there and things will be fine. And the important thing, you haven't lost anything from this that you wouldn't have lost anyway, and now Pete is going to look at how it works. So, count this as a win for you! Keep an eye on future battles and let Pete know if anything bad happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highwayman Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 its a computer program.... it does the same thing every time.. so if you need that 95% of damage (even if it is just the first pulse ) then you should get it... and i understand that it wouldnt have made any difference in this battle.... and truely if i know that this is the way that it works and is going to work then i can take that i account.. but on a warp point assault those first pulses are very important if the other side has lots of ships coming through..... and i imagine pete gets tired of hearing from me about "issues" even tho he always does a great job either fixing the issue or explaining it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Miles Avatar Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 It should the same EVERY time and thats what Pete said he was going To make sure happens. I like to think of warp point assaults as good ole battles of Thermopylae. If you have enough firepwer on a few Ships you should be able to hold the pass especially if the Warp point size is small. Most players only put 1 transwarp Engine on their ship designs so most of the time just 1 or 2 ships Of even battleship size can traverse even the Relatively large c or d size wp's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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