CIDS

[richardjohns]

Yeah who would expect a flaw to get fixed. Lets screw over the players. Since I already went down the path I am SCREWED and receive paragraphs avoiding why its plagued. 

Yep SCREW over more players keep it up.

 

[RTGPete]

58 minutes ago, richardjohns said:

Yeah who would expect a flaw to get fixed. Lets screw over the players. Since I already went down the path I am SCREWED and receive paragraphs avoiding why its plagued. 

Yep SCREW over more players keep it up.

 

I can understand if you don't like something.  However, we aren't "screwing" anybody over, and this type of aggressive rhetoric is not welcome.  I ask that cool heads prevail and just play the game.  If you don't like a technology, don't use it.  It's. Just. A. Game.  It's also important to note that researching a single item that you may or may not end up using is not the end of the world.  Let's not act like it is.

Gatling Gauss Gun CIDS is flatly more expensive than regular CIDS (in Draco).  True.  You're absolutely correct about that--hands down, no question about it:  you're right.  It also leads to better versions of itself that are more difficult for somebody else to also research, and costs the exact same as almost every other CIDS system (Gauss Gun CIDS in general are extra cheap in Draco since Iron is in general easier to obtain, and they cost mostly Iron to build, so that's actually an advantage). If you don't care about that, then don't use it.

The fourth iteration of a CIDS tech is more efficient than using the first, even including the cost increase for using advanced components.  That's because each bump up doubles the output per ton of the unit.  Three doublings of output for the second, third and finally the fourth and best version far outweighs the component cost increase.

[Guest]

Can't we all get along here we all learn from each other on draco since it new

[The Fremen]

We are 'getting along' for the most part. This is a simple or what appears to be a simple disagreement as to why 2 CIDS systems ( one 2nd generation and 1 3rd generation have the exact same CIDS accuracy rating). If this is the way of things in Draco now then it's possible that other CIDS systems have been affected similarly. We shall soon find out as we are pursuing a different CIDS path. If so this will be the only instance I know of where a superior technology doesn't actually increase the rating it just moves 'sideways and starts down another path. 

[hobknob]

There is nothing wrong with the picture.  The gauss line is a new line of cids and starts at the bottom.  There are lots of cids systems and many open up much later and all start at the same efficiency.  There are other choices to be made when choosing the system you want but they all do the same thing.

 

 

[Guest]

not in Andromeda  it not i cant say about draco ether 

[richardjohns]

Actually hobnob you are wrong on this one and I have to say that I was already betting you would be right their defending this. I told someone you would come on and agree and I was right on. You would never disagree on the boards and never do it even though their is evidence against it.

[The Fremen]

What I don't get is why CIDS systems of equivalent generation don't have the same ratio. For example. The Laser CIDS is a 10 ton 2nd generation CIDS just like the 4cm Gatling CIDS. Both have a accuracy rating of 50 or a ratio of 5 accuracy rating per ton. 

The 4cm Gatling Gauss gun CIDS is a 3rd generation CIDS but still has a ratio of 5 per ton. By contrast the pulse Laser CIDS is also a 3rd generation CIDS but it has a ratio of 10 accuracy per ton or 200( it's a 20 ton system). 

 

Just like weapons follow a certain tonnage to firepower ratio. i.e.  2 for 1st generation 4 for 2nd 8 for 3rd etc etc. 

no matter the tonnage of the weapon be it 100 to 1000000 gazillion you just multiply the ratio be it 2, 4,8 etc by the tonnage and get the firepower rating.

There was one exception to this rule( The Type D Spinal Starbore. Which topped out at 2 billion damage output)

 

CIDS are very similar except the ratio is different. I never really researched CIDS in Andromeda having relied on high generation defensive gunboats for that but in Draco gunboats are a ways off so for now CIDS are a must. But different types don't seem to follow the same accuracy progression and since research is a tad slower in Draco it become imperative to pick the right systems. It shouldn't matter which one to pick though as they should all be equal if they are the same generation but that doesn't appear to be the case

[hobknob]

How am i wrong?  

[hobknob]

The gatling gauss cids is not a continuation of the gatling line, rather a branch to a new line that also has 4 levels.  The only thing to compare is output per ton. Much of this talk is mixing generations of tech with performance of the system. There are cids that start at 5th generation but are still only the first of 4 cids levels of that type.  Fortunately it is clearly named MK I Phase Shaker CIDS.

 

Now if there is some other confusion.....

 

All cids systems are the same rating per ton for each level. There are 8 different tech tracks for cids, not counting plekton tech.  Each level 1 cids is exactly the same on output/ton.  The only difference is research path, system size and construction cost.

 

 

 

[hobknob]

10 hours ago, richardjohns said:

Actually hobnob you are wrong on this one and I have to say that I was already betting you would be right their defending this. I told someone you would come on and agree and I was right on. You would never disagree on the boards and never do it even though their is evidence against it.

Actually, i am not.

 

There, i have disagreed.

[The Fremen]

Is it true that each generation of item be it 1st to 10th has a certain firepower to tonnage ratio that is consistent throughout the game?  Yes with one exception (which was mentioned before as it's the only system that goes past a limit in the code of 2 billion). BTW I never did like the fact that it's ratio was  666 to 1 ?

Is it true that the same ratio holds true for ALL variations and generations of CIDS?

Yes!! Until now that is. In Andromeda the CIDS system at the heart of this small maelstrom had a accuracy rating of 100 which would be right on par with it being a 3rd generation CIDS with a ratio of 10 to 1 (accuracy per ton) For reasons  yet unknown that system has chosen to break with the way things used to be. So far it's the only rebel so far. Will there be others? That is also unknown. I for one would like there to be consistency as it shouldnt matter what CIDS I decide to research. 

 

 

 

[hobknob]

In Andromeda the two cids systems tech lines in question are as follows and both of them hold to the standard.  I don't have every ANZ for the Draco versions yet and it may be some time before they all turn up.  However, unless they were changed they would still follow the same pattern and would not be broken.

The Gatling line is as follows

4cm gatling CIDS - 5/ton

6cm gatling CIDS - 10/ton

8cm gatling CIDS - 20/ton

10cm gatling CIDS - 40/ton

 

the Gauss line is 

4cm Gatling Gauss CIDS - 5/ton

6cm Gatling Gauss CIDS - 10/ton

8cm Gatling Gauss CIDS - 20/ton

10cm Gatling Gauss CIDS - 40/ton

 

The other 6 types of CIDS tech also follow the same.

 

Personally  I don't see any reason to ever research the Gatling Gauss CIDS line, some of the others are more appealing for other reasons but if you choose to go down that path you will get CIDS that are just as good as any other line.  

 

[The Fremen]

Ah ha!! That's it!! Pronoun trouble... it's not he doesn't have to shoot you now... it's he doesn't have to shoot me now!!... but I demand that he shoots me now... so shoot me now!! BANG!!! ?  

4cm Gatling Gauss CIDS - 5/ton

shouldnt this item use standard materials then if it is to be equal to other CIDS with the same accuracy per ton? In Draco it uses improved materials. That much is known. 

[RTGPete]

1 hour ago, The Fremen said:

4cm Gatling Gauss CIDS - 5/ton

shouldnt this item use standard materials then if it is to be equal to other CIDS with the same accuracy per ton? In Draco it uses improved materials. That much is known. 

The difference lies in the difficulty of your enemy to also research that line, making it less likely that he will counter your choice.  If you don't care about that, build the cheaper one.  Problem solved.  A lot of defensive systems end up costing advanced materials for their best versions, at which point the question of cost becomes irrelevant.