EternusIV Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Imagine having 1 ship that had: 1) NTWD 2) Enough APs to SKIM fuel, drop off cargo and colonists to a planet a few systems away and COME BACK - ALL IN ONE TURN I'll go out on a limb and guess that nobody has the Mk III Fusion Engine that will take someone 5-8 turns to develop spending all 25 RCs on JUST Mk III's -- and not even considering the Advanced Goods needed to be researched just to BUILD it (can be bought with SRPs, though) [which is why I discount any and all claims of these existing at this stage] Thus - my spreadsheet calculates a ship built with Mk II Fusion Engines I have designed a spreadsheet where you enter two values: 1) Number of APs you want the mega colonizer to have 2) Number of CBs you want on it (= # of people to be colonized per turn) and you also enter in the Warp Point path the ship will take for the colonization route. The spreadsheet will then calculate: a) Total Tonnage Required Total Mk II Fusion Engines Needed c) Fuel Tankage Needed d) Fuel Shuttles Needed* e) Cargo Bays Needed** *Believe me - these suckers will absorb a TREMENDOUS amount of fuel per turn if you are warping merely NEXT door in one turn with any sizeable amount of CBs - it will eat existing stockpiles FAST - yes - even if you have gargantuous fuel skim convoys already in place (example below) Thus - it makes sense to SKIM for fuel if you can! ** This is (500*CBs) as this represents how many CM/Improved CM it will take to supply 1 pop worth of materials to build a basic industry Note: You'll need a supplemental cargo ship to transfer goods and carry the initial investment of CMs for that first power source Example: (Cut and Paste From SpreadSheet) =================================================== THRUST OUTPUT 2000 APs Wanted 6 CBs Wanted 500 Total Tonnage: 8,294,023 Total Mk II Fusion Engines Needed: 24,882 Fuel Tankage Needed: 132,704 Fuel Shuttle Needed: 664 Cargo Bays Needed: 250,000 Includes 1 NTWD: 25,000 Includes 1 NTWD: 25,000 PATH A 0 B 0 C 0 D 2 E 0 F 0 G 0 ===================================================== This is a design for a ship that will carry 500 CBs that starts in the Alpha System, SKIMS for fuel, warps to the BETA system, drops off colonists and warps back home (through 2 D warp points ) The Path was calculated thusly: [LOAD stuff] AP1) NM to Gas Giant AP2) SKIM AP3) MOVE to Alpha-> Beta Warp Point ** WARP ** (costs no AP NTWD so we keep goin ) AP4) NM to Beta Colony [OFFLOAD stuff] AP5) MOVE to Beta -> Alpha Warp Point ** WARP ** (costs no AP NTWD so we keep goin ) AP6) NM to Alpha Homeworld Note that the design is greatly dependent upon the path you are taking to the system(s) away from your homeworld. I used two D systems as an example only. There only remain slight adjustments for rounding. If you are interested in how I came up with this or want a copy, send me an email I'll be sure to send you stuff next week as I wont have much time before now and when turns are due to send it out ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Big question - sure I get to land 500 Colonists per turn with enough CM to keep em busy on a world at the system next door. I can tell you that the resources to construct such a monstrosity will take TURNS......so its a very interesting call if you want to accomplish such a ship. (If you can build 10,000+ Mk II Fusion Engines per turn you are cooking - presume if you are a colonizer that you have the 1000 CBs lying around anyway) The obvious solution is to wait for the development of MK III Fusion Engines or better.....but thats a LONG way off for most of us. Another option is to SLUG it along at 2 APs per turn (my choice for now ) Here is another example for you to chew on......not saying it EXISTS (yet) :lol: ==================================================== THRUST OUTPUT 2000 APs Wanted 10 CBs Wanted 1000 Total Tonnage: 24,139,933 Total Mk II Fusion Engines Needed: 120,700 Fuel Tankage Needed: 386,242 Fuel Shuttle Needed: 1,931 Cargo Bays Needed: 500,000 Includes 1 NTWD: 25,000 PATH A 0 B 0 C 2 D 4 E 0 F 0 G 0 ===================================================== Here endeth this rambling treatise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha'thar of the Gosht Kohr Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Sha'thar tiptoes in and sneaks the catnip away from EternusIV. Well... tiptoes in as best she can. She winces at stepping on a car. o O { Ooops. So much for stealth... } Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted February 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 :lol: I knew it was a matter of time before you'd sniff that out. Have a nice Swim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WKE235 Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 There are players out there with MK III Fusion .. and they are working on the next advance. Not me (just starting on MK II Fusion). But they are our there, moving very, very, fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted February 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Wow. Really? They must have been knowing what the heck they were doing then! Please note that the Spreadsheet Figures changed slightly since first viewing. I hammered out the rounding/Diff EQ issue. ALSO Considering the possibility that Mk III's are out there, here is a comparison (I adjusted my spreadsheet so that any thrust value can be used now: ==================================================== A comparison for going through 2 Class D Warp-points between Mk II and Mk III Fusion Engines ==================================================== THRUST OUTPUT 2000 APs Wanted 6 CBs Wanted 500 Total Tonnage: 8,294,023 Total Mk II Fusion Engines Needed: 24,882 Fuel Tankage Needed: 132,704 Fuel Shuttle Needed: 664 Cargo Bays Needed: 250,000 Includes 1 NTWD: 25,000 Includes 1 NTWD: 25,000 =================================================== THRUST OUTPUT 4000 APs Wanted 6 CBs Wanted 500 Total Tonnage: 6,711,196 Total Mk III Fusion Engines Needed: 10,067 Fuel Tankage Needed: 107,379 Fuel Shuttle Needed: 537 Cargo Bays Needed: 250,000 Includes 1 NTWD: 25,000 ===================================================== Verdict: With Mk III Fusion Engines, you save: 1) 14,815 Engines 2) 25,325 Fuel Tankage 3) 127 Fuel Shuttles 4) 1,582,827 Tonnage in total It's still a big ship! But its a lot more feasible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan Elder 'Keen Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 I wouldn't suggest skimming with the inter-system colonizer. Its much more efficient to set up remote skim operation with a resupply ship at the warp point. Just consider how many engines you need to give that massive colony ship extra APs. A little skimmer could do 10 skims instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octagon999 Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 I wouldn't suggest skimming with the inter-system colonizer. Its much more efficient to set up remote skim operation with a resupply ship at the warp point. Just consider how many engines you need to give that massive colony ship extra APs. A little skimmer could do 10 skims instead. Darn, you beat me to it. You are MUCH better off building Fuel Distillation Complexes, and just loading fuel from your colony than you are using AP's to skim. Even if you have the AP's, use them to move more colonists, not skim fuel. Fuel is essentially free at this point. Don't skim. If you have to skim, skim at Planet A, and shuttle it out to Warp Point B with SUPP for the warping fleet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sssarass Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Fuel Dissstillation Complexes I beg to differ go for the Fuel Purification Refinery, at leassst until you can use the advanced conssstruction materialsss. Usssing improved CM'sss for fuel isss sssuch a wassste. CTO, Sssarasss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 You could also add just enough fuel tankage to go there and back. You basically need a 4AP colony ship with a NTWD. out and back. To push that colony ship to 4AP will be expensive! Very. (might be cost effective but hey). I would slap a NTWD and enough fuel to get there and back and allow it to run. Turn 1: Move, Warp, NM, OC, CON xxxxx, LC Turn 2: Move, Warp, NM, OC, LC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Morgan Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Pirate, If you want a two turn convoy route, why even use NTWD? What a bloody waste of resources for a colony one system out. You can do two turn routes with beginning tech. -Henry Morgan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Foolish British.. without a NTWD it is 3 turns. Turn 1. Move, Warp Turn 2. NM, OC, Move, Warp Turn 3. NM, OC/LC, Move Warp a 3 turn cycle not a 2 turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Morgan Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Pirate, Har! Extend that schedule out a bit mate. It is a two turn cycle. You just lose the first turn setting it up. That's OK ole chap, you'll find your tail someday. -Henry Morgan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur Lord Tedric Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 I just can't resist! :lol: I just have to point out that you're wrong again..... Seeing as my colony ships have been on a 2-turn cycle for months and months, let alone that our dear old British maths does allow us to extrapolate beyond that very first MOVE,WARP..... You ARE able to get a round trip in every 2 turns once the cycle is running with starting tech. 2 = 3 ...... priceless.... Mx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha'thar of the Gosht Kohr Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Sha'thar hmmms. She's not so sure about complexes being better than dedicated industrial-scale fuel skimmers. She's put her first 25,000 fuel/turn skimmer into operation, thus allowing her to DIS 1000 fuel refineries on a world. Which mean returning 1000 population units back to the pool to be used for other things, and ramping down her Gaseous Elements production. Another skimmer added and she'll debuild all her Fuel Distillation complexes, adding -those- population units back into the mix, undoubtedly to become colonists or army units, or to man (cat?) various kinds of industrial complexes. And certainly large skimmers make for handy, instant fuel sources way out in the beyond. However, she can see where FDCs would be great on a friendly world with a large petrochemicals deposit. Perhaps the best strategy would be a combination of the various fuel technologies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Morgan Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Ur Lord Tedric, I would say that in this case that British math is a bit more precise than Yankee math. :lol: -Henry Morgan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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