Suggestion for a Galactic Exchange Medium

[ShadowKitsune]

The question we have is this: Does the Matter Transporter operate using the Transmitter-Receiver pair model (i.e. Stargates) or the Self-Contained Unit model (i.e. Star Trek Transporters)?

 

If they are Self-Contained then a monopoly is a good thing, if they're not a monopoly is not as advantageous.

 

-SK

[The Benthis Collective]

The reason we brought up the Bill in the GS is because some sytem is needed. What ever we pick as a Galactic Standard just needs to be agreed upon to get the system working. Once a standard is agreed to we can create a commodities exchange market. Eventually we might actually have big commodities exchange world in some asteroid belt somewhere:-)

 

The Gold Standard was fairly arbitrary from a purely economic standpoint, but many currencies were once pinned to it. Really what we are trying to do is come up with a common unit of exchange so we can creat, in-game, our own system of Galactic Credits. Once you have the unit you can have relative flux on the actual prices, expressed in that unit, based on supply and demand. What I envision is a Galactic Economy using G$ of ][ as a sort of common way of talking about value, and then setting up commodities markets expressed in those units. This is very interesting because we could potentially end up with "commercial paper" speculations on bills of ladden etc. The possibilities are limitless once we agree to use a common system.

 

President Logion

Betnhis Collective

[Krelnett_of_Kraan]

And that common system should include the effort to create an item, not just its components. The more this gets argued, the more strongly we feel that Tedric is sticking to his model out of stubbornness and refuses to rationally consider our model.

Expecting civilizations to trade only "finished" products is not only presumptuous, it is detrimental to his case by stressing the very same products whose prices are uneven in his model.

Those that contain Level 1 resources are consequently ‘cheaper’ than others, and those that contain high percentages are more ‘expensive’ than others on a ton for ton basis.

Of course it's also possible the Ur-Lord doesn't PAY his drones, so higher-level products are no more expensive in his empire than their low-level components. Or perhaps the workmanship is so shoddy that his jump drives are worth no more than the dirt from which they're derived???

[Guest Zy'lar'isa]

And that common system should include the effort to create an item, not just its components. The more this gets argued, the more strongly we feel that Tedric is sticking to his model out of stubbornness and refuses to rationally consider our model.

Keep it simple......Senator. The G$ is as complex as it needs to be. It is only a base. The buyer and seller will decide the final price.

 

And if he isn't ignoring your attempt to further complicate the complicated, then We are.

 

Queen Zy'lar'isa

The Nest of Zylaria

4933

[Ur Lord Tedric]

"There are some interesting consequences of this approach. Many will have noticed that nearly all ship items are produced on a 5:1 basis. Those that contain Level 1 resources are consequently ‘cheaper’ than others, and those that contain high percentages are more ‘expensive’ than others on a ton for ton basis."

 

 

When you say "and those that contain higher percentages", what are you refering to? If you are refereing to Level 1 resources, it should read "lower percentages". If you are refering to something else, could you clarify?

Greetings Clan Elder

 

You are quite right - it's a case of 'brain in advance of fingers' - I've now edited the original.....

 

Chief Trader to Ur-Lord Tedric

[Ur Lord Tedric]

And that common system should include the effort to create an item, not just its components. The more this gets argued, the more strongly we feel that Tedric is sticking to his model out of stubbornness and refuses to rationally consider our model.

Expecting civilizations to trade only "finished" products is not only presumptuous, it is detrimental to his case by stressing the very same products whose prices are uneven in his model.

Those that contain Level 1 resources are consequently ‘cheaper’ than others, and those that contain high percentages are more ‘expensive’ than others on a ton for ton basis.

Of course it's also possible the Ur-Lord doesn't PAY his drones, so higher-level products are no more expensive in his empire than their low-level components. Or perhaps the workmanship is so shoddy that his jump drives are worth no more than the dirt from which they're derived???

Clamness Oh Krelnett, hardworking, industrious and actually quite correct one...

 

We are not ignoring you at all, and have tried to pay the attention to your model, and others, that they deserve. We too went down this route originally and have contributed to several, quite highbrow, mathematical models.

 

What we respect totally are the efforts of your workers and we can assure you that ours need paying too.

 

However, we do keep them employed all the time and they are continually producing. For this reason the 'cost' of producing 5,000 CMs (or ICMs/ACMs) is exactly the same as producing 5,000 Electronics. Therefore, provided the model shows that they are the same price, then they are equal in relation to each other.

 

Now, there is a, pretty small, discrepancy between producing a certain 'value' of Steel against the same 'value' of Electronics, but this pales into insignificance when considering the same cost if Orbital Crystal Refineries are in the equation. OTOH an empire has made a significant investment to gain such technology and they should be rewarded.

 

What became apparent is the overcomplexity of most models, when accepting less accuracy simplifies the model so very much.

 

When it comes down to it, every trade arranged in the end will be determined by supply and demand.

 

But I can see no reason whatsoever, mind you, for the trading of resources rather than finished items (apart from the rare occasions that last for a limited time when one empire can produce the item, but not yet the resources). Even if there's nothing of any value close to what I am trading, I will always accept payment in Fuel Tankage, albeit at a reasonable profit. It rather depends on what it is the other empire wants.......

 

Chief Trader to Ur-Lord Tedric

[Turok]

Why does anyone want to trade? Why don't you just take whatever you want? It works for me.

[EternusIV]

Turok-

 

I don't believe you to be THAT naive.... :lol:

 

One cannot research everything in this game....when you stumble upon a pair of neighbors whi diversified their technology and have a significant edge over your warrior peoples, you'll be cursing the day your people chose to isolate themselves from local trade.

[ShadowKitsune]

Krelnett, have you gazed upon AKO's model? It is quite similar to what you are desiring.

 

----

 

All,

 

One request I would like to make is that power consumption be excluded from the economic exchange model. While Mines, Refineries and the lot require power they do not produce finished goods. Industrial Complexes, which produce finished goods, do not require. Only Shipyards produce finished goods and require power and their 'finished goods' are non-tradable items (e.g. Starships). The vast majority of trade will be in finished goods.

 

FWIW,

 

-SK

[EternusIV]

I agree with SK about ignoring power consumption.

 

Hoepfully we can find a simple standard that heavily accounts for the 'level' of goods (standard, improved, advanced) used to make the item.

[The Benthis Collective]

How about a G$ + system? What I mean here is we take the basic G$ value and then adds a percentage markup of everyother prime number to account for tech leves.

 

Thus:

 

T1=G$+0%

T2=G$+1%

T3=G$+5%

T4=G$+11%

T5=G$+17%

T6=G$+29%

 

It is arbitray, to be sure, but it gives a cost enhancement more or less commenserate with the difficulty of researching the tech level so the intellectual Property value implicite in an item could be represent in the equally arbitrary but standardized G$ system of exchange. Plus this is simple and easy to work with.

 

President Logion

[The Colony]

We wonder if these distinguished empires have accurately factored their exchange medium. It does not show technological requirements. An example would be a tech that requires going up 2 paths to reach. If it is a weapon it has taken longer to research and may only produce the same damage. We take our trusted ESAP Beam as an example. While only a poor weapon it has requires 7 previous technologies to get. Now compared to a 10cm autocannon it inflicts the same damage and takes approx. the same to build (resource/tonnage is =) but many players do not have a defense against it.

 

This would of course be factored in the desire of the player to trade for them but this makes the entire equation and formula pointless.

 

Queen Mother

[EternusIV]

Tech Path is an interesting approach.

 

However it seems that the path to get to items that require Improved Goods is pretty close across the board.

 

Same with Advanced Goods.

 

I know some of the exceptions....but...its not that huge of a difference it seems. Are you suggesting we price items based on their pre-requisite techs? If so - based on raw number of pre-req techs?

 

Interesting thought.

[Hannibal]

The Colony Posted on Jun 29 2004, 01:36 PM

We wonder if these distinguished empires have accurately factored their exchange medium...Now compared to a 10cm autocannon it inflicts the same damage and takes approx. the same to build (resource/tonnage is =) but many players do not have a defense against it.

 

This would of course be factored in the desire of the player to trade for them but this makes the entire equation and formula pointless.

 

Not pointless, Senator...it is simply a baseline. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Proponents of the G$ system have pointed out that supply and demand still have their place.

 

In your example, I would expect the demand for ESAP weaponry to be higher than that for 10cm autocannon, garnering a nice profit for yourself in the purchase/trade. It is no more complicated than that...nor we think pointless.

[Turok]

Hi Eternus

 

No, I don't believe I am that naive but let's keep that between the two of us. I would prefer it if all your fellow Senators looked upon me as some big-mouthed, brainless idiot.