Krelnett_of_Kraan Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Tedric: Some of our drones have started whispering... If you want such a "simple" economic model, why not just use the finished weight of the item in question? You'd still have finished items worth more than basic materials, and you wouldn't have to go through all the cumbersome calculation of the raw resources involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTGRuss Posted July 7, 2004 Report Share Posted July 7, 2004 (edited) File posted by request of Ur-Lord Tedric Russ The_Galactic_Raw_Resource_Equivalent.zip Edited July 7, 2004 by RTGRuss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krysia's Krusader Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 File posted by request of Ur-Lord Tedric Russ <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I can't read that. It comes out all scrambled and in characters I don't recognize... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LenLorek Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 File posted by request of Ur-Lord Tedric Russ <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I can't read that. It comes out all scrambled and in characters I don't recognize... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have no trouble reading it. I used Winzip to extract the .doc file, and I successfully opened it using MS Word 2003 (11.6568.6568) SP2, on Windows XP 2002 SP2. /Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasn Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 I have no trouble reading it. I used Winzip to extract the .doc file, and I successfully opened it using MS Word 2003 (11.6568.6568) SP2, on Windows XP 2002 SP2. /Len <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Interesting. When I clicked on the link it went to another html page with garbage text. When I right clicked and tried to download it, it downloaded as an index.php.htm file, which had garbage text in it. I did all this using Firefox. Based on your success, I switched to IE where clicking on the link downloads a nice zip file with a doc in it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ali-t-akua Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 I have no trouble reading it. I used Winzip to extract the .doc file, and I successfully opened it using MS Word 2003 (11.6568.6568) SP2, on Windows XP 2002 SP2. /Len <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Interesting. When I clicked on the link it went to another html page with garbage text. When I right clicked and tried to download it, it downloaded as an index.php.htm file, which had garbage text in it. I did all this using Firefox. Based on your success, I switched to IE where clicking on the link downloads a nice zip file with a doc in it! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I had the same problem. I am also using Firefox so it may be related to the browser for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan Elder 'Keen Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 I didnt scroll back through the thread to see if it was already posted (I assume it might be), but this is the content of that file: The Galactic Raw Resource Equivalent – GRRE – G$ A Suggestion for a Common Base for Trade and Economic Calculations Background We have seen a number of models that calculate the ‘cost’ of making items/resources in the game so far and nearly all have a logical basis. In various ways they have tried to include the effects of the various steps needed to produce the items, the power requirements and the ever more complex variable introduced when empire deviate from simple Stripmines and Industrial Complexes, into Colony Mines, Improved and Advanced ICs/SMs, and the effect of Industrial Science breakthroughs. However, we realised that all these models assume that you are effectively ‘investing’ from scratch, which tends not to be the case. With very few exceptions, we believe, empires are set up to produce resources and items in similar ways. On that basis, one is merely swapping one sort of production for another and it is all relative. This certainly applies to any desire to trade, when one is normally arranging to effectively trade-off production ability, but with items that an empire cannot produce for itself. On this basis it is possible to reduce the model to one based upon the lowest common denominator – the Raw Resource…. Basis The basis for the model is very simple. It merely assigns a value to any item based upon the number of Raw Resources (RRs) it would take to build that item assuming that all you have available were SMs to make the RRs and ICs to convert them through the various stages to get to the finished item. Because it is assumed everyone has sufficient industry to do just that, then the model will work for comparing the cost between items on that, very simple, basis. What this achieves is a comparative value expressed as a number of GRREs or G$’s. What the model does not do is change the ‘cost’ of making any item with the effect of Mines, Improved or Advanced production facilities, or production bonuses. It is assumed that when an empire gains such things it produced a net increase in the economic output of any particular empires. Thus the cost of producing any particular item goes down relative to another empire with a smaller economy. In addition, the model shows no effect from whether the items are made from Improved or Advanced resources. Any such disparity would be reflected in the actual trade negotiation between the parties concerned. The ‘cost’ of production doesn’t actually change, however. Costs Whilst it is possible to fairly easily work out the costs of items from first principles, it is suggested that the simple Level 2/3 resources that appear in the ANZs of items are used. These then have the following values (Improved and Advanced versions too): (Level 1) Iron, Lumber, Light Metals, Petrochemicals, Gaseous Elements, Industrial Chemicals, Crystals, Radioactive Elements, Grains, Meats, Water, Fruits & Vegetables, Fibers, Coal, Precious Metals, Gem Stones, Rare Elements, Rare Herbs & Spices, Mineral Fertilizers, Caldaran Crystals, Garoxx Jewels, Jinn Crystals, Ghuran Demonblood, Shenn Stones, & Tritantantalum - G$10 (Level 2) Steel, Timber, Transaluminium, Petroleum, Fuel, Synthetic Materials, Refined Crystals, Processed Radioactives, Textiles, Pharmaceuticals, Luxury Goods, Plantfoods & Weapons – G$30 Food Concentrates – G$40 Consumer Goods – G$50 Black Market Goods – G$70 Construction Materials, Heavy Machinery & Electronics - $90 Results There are some interesting consequences of this approach. Many will have noticed that nearly all ship items are produced on a 5:1 basis. Those that contain Level 1 resources are consequently ‘cheaper’ than others, and those that contain a high percentage of Electronics are more ‘expensive’ than others on a ton for ton basis. Examples A few examples may illustrate the results of this costing: Mk I Computer – 500 Electronics – G$45,000 Mk II Jump survey Sensor – 20,000 Electronics, 5,000 Synth Mats – G$1,950,000 10cm Autocannon – 400 Steel, 100 Electronics – G$21,000 Mk I NJD – 100 Steel, 100 Electronics, 100 Synth Mats, 100 Proc Rads, 100 Rare Elements – G$19,000 Mk I Force Shield – 200 Transaluminium, 100 Electronics, 100 Synth Mats, 100 Rare Elements – G$19,000 NTWD – 250 Mk I NJD, 250 Mk I Force Shield, 25,000 ImpElectronics, 25,000 Imp Synth Mats, 25,000 Adv Fuel – G$13,250,000 Economy It is also possible to gauge the size of your economy and the value of mining colonies, as well as the effect of such things as Orbital Crystal Refineries, the Fuel Installations, etc. Simply add up the values of the Raw Resources and Level 1 & 2 Resources produced and multiply by the appropriate cost as above. At the very start (since single pop gp’s were introduced) everyone’s economy was the same as we all had 85,000 SMs. They produced 85M RRs and therefore the economy was worth G$85M. However, as soon as mines were established on the HW and CMs were moved around to everyone’s satisfaction, then this will have jumped straight over G$100M, and probably higher. Summary This model is now submitted to the galaxy at large to use as you will. It has the virtue of being very simple – it even fits on just two pages!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krysia's Krusader Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 Okay. Thanks guys. Someone has also sent me a copy via e-mail. I don't know enough about computers, but I also use Firefox, so that may be the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cestvel Posted June 9, 2006 Report Share Posted June 9, 2006 If you would have renamed the file you downloaded as zip, you would have got it. The garbage text was the zip archive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasn Posted June 10, 2006 Report Share Posted June 10, 2006 If you would have renamed the file you downloaded as zip, you would have got it.The garbage text was the zip archive. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, that makes sense. I should have realized that myself. Thanks. With all of these tricks listed, no one should have any trouble accessing the file now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandaemonium Posted June 11, 2006 Report Share Posted June 11, 2006 Krelnett, My own empire's main restriction is population, so the fact that it takes several times as many to run the industrial complexes as the mines makes that my main constraint and causes me to appreciate the ICE proposal. If the materials cost system is used, I would prefer that the class of Raw Materials be used as its basis, rather than Raw Resources, eliminating a factor of ten from the already too long numbers. As for your (facetious?) proposal of final tonnage evaluation, my problem is that I have, thus far, found ship components requiring from 5 to 141 tons of Raw Materials (50-1410 RR) ingredients, per ton of final component, to construct them, with the even greater cost range for ICE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur Lord Tedric Posted June 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2006 Wow! Forum necromancy at it's best!!! We still use this all the time in trade planning...... Chief Planner to Ur-Lord Tedric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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