Gary Carpenter Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 HANNIBAL-LOGION Anti-Piracy Bill GS BILL 061704-2-04 The Galactic Senate declares piracy as a strictly illegal activity. No empire is allowed to steal or capture property belonging to another empire, unless under a declared state of war. Piracy is not in keeping with the Senate’s stated goals. Any empire found by the Galactic Senate to be engaging in piracy, will be branded as an outlaw empire. All empires, both in and out of the Galactic Senate are free to engage, indeed encouraged to engage, an outlaw empire wherever it is found to exist. Piracy is defined as the act of intentionally attacking, raiding, blockading, bombarding, extorting, or plundering of any thing of value, actively run by a real player, without provocation or legitimate justification. Piracy shall not be deemed to include the capturing of legitimate prize during times of just war, nor shall it include the confiscation of contraband or tariffs by customs and revenue authorities provided the collection of same is openly and conspicuously announced beforehand and the territorial scope of such collection is specifically and intelligably defined. The liberation of contraband from a known pirate shall not itself be deemed piracy. Whenever possible, stolen property should be returned to its former owners. The liberator of stolen goods may keep 30% of any liberated goods as a salvage fee. Lets look at this. Piracy is defined as the act of intentionally attacking, raiding, blockading, bombarding, extorting, or plundering of any thing of value, actively run by a real player, without provocation or legitimate justification. Lets see the Scanners did attack, without declaring war. So the question is, if having ships at a warp point able to survey, that had time to move but did not, is PROVOCATION OR LEGITIMATE JUSTIFICATION.. What should the GS do? Write a new law? Lets see what the current law says! Any empire found by the Galactic Senate to be engaging in piracy, will be branded as an outlaw empire. All empires, both in and out of the Galactic Senate are free to engage, indeed encouraged to engage, an outlaw empire wherever it is found to exist. Looks like the law says the GS needs to brand the pirate empire as an OUTLAW EMPIRE. Though it is not stated directly, it is implied that all the GS needs to do is VOTE. The vote is implied, how else would the GS declare an empire OUTLAW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mechanica Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 Not sure about you but having someone move a flock of explorers through a no return warp point AND not communicating with me about their 'mistake' would be provocation in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennarian Star Imperium Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 Mister Bates, Are you truly trying to get us all to believe that if you told someone not to bring more than one ship into your territory and they then moved as many ships as they wanted to inot your territory, without any contact or responding to your inquiries that you wouldn't find this justifiable provocation. Are we to truly believe you are that much of a fool? First Citizen Anastasia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 how else would the GS declare an empire OUTLAW? Trial by fire, Gary. We are voting on Incident Enforcement this turn. I wouldn't expect anyone to brand AKO as an outlaw quite yet. Please be patient for a bit longer. I'm going to hold off commenting further on this topic until we pass the enforcement act and start Committee. According to AKO - the Scanners and Pheonix Empire are on talking terms. Hope you guys can resolve it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ur Lord Tedric Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 If we may, to add to the pot for discussion....... Considering that we would propose, and have indeed before, that shooting on sight is never the best way to start an intra-empire relationship - if a potentially interloping empire arives at an unexpected WP and doesn't move after being asked not to, then perhaps they don't deserve to be destroyed out of hand? Now, in the case under discussion, a whole flotilla of ships appeared when only one extra was expected. This was obviously what triggered AKO's worry and reaction. But consider this - what if only one ship had arrived - but was a 1M ton 10AP surveying monster? That would have, most probably, been much more 'dangerous'..... So, one ship could be far worse than 9..... What obviously happened is that there was a breakdown/break in communications and it was not possible to determine how deliberate this may have been, if at all. Patience could have been exercised..... We do not believe AKO acted as a 'pirate', but as a paranoid xenophobe as many 'out there' seem to be....... Empires are going to 'bump' into each other and arrival in any system may, or may not, be totally unexpected. We would, perhaps, propose that the GS consider a First Contact Protocol? Agreeing to stay at the WP of arrival is a sensible start. A total lack of communication, perhaps, could be considered intrinsically hostile. Whatever happens, once an empire has discovered a way to a system, that system is now known. There is little point short of the commencement of hostilities in throwing them back out of it. Communication is key! Lord High Seneschal to Ur-Lord Tedric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKO Posted July 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 Just one addition: Gary presumes that the Phoenix ships had time to move somewhere else: They did not get that time. Kind regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Carpenter Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 Mister Bates, Are you truly trying to get us all to believe that if you told someone not to bring more than one ship into your territory and they then moved as many ships as they wanted to inot your territory, without any contact or responding to your inquiries that you wouldn't find this justifiable provocation. Are we to truly believe you are that much of a fool? First Citizen Anastasia Really? Let me tell you a 100% non aggressive way to solve this problem. Leave the ships that you can destroy the fleet with on the other side of the warp point he would have to go through to get out of the system, and set them to blow up anything that warps into the next system. 1) This would still protect him from gaining any more info. 2) Since he had not been in contact with you for a time, it would insure there was not just some error. 3) And it would keep you from being a pirate. 4) There by making him the 100 % aggressor, With no excuse, and still covering your rear. So the answer is NO, if I had been talking to him, I would not of blown up his fleet. The 9 more ships, were too small to worry about, 9 battle ships, would be different, but some probes and survey mk III ships.<BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID, NOT> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turok Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 It would keep you from being a pirate Is there something wrong with being a pirate? It would make all your lives so much easier if you attacked everything that moved and expected the same in return. I don't really understand what the problem is. Somebody destroys a few Pathfinders - bigdeal. Just return the compliment, only with bigger and better ships. If they say you are in their territory all the better, it means you are getting closer to their HW. Don't whinge - Kick arse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crossroads Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 Mister Bates, Are you truly trying to get us all to believe that if you told someone not to bring more than one ship into your territory and they then moved as many ships as they wanted to inot your territory, without any contact or responding to your inquiries that you wouldn't find this justifiable provocation. Are we to truly believe you are that much of a fool? First Citizen Anastasia Really? Let me tell you a 100% non aggressive way to solve this problem. Leave the ships that you can destroy the fleet with on the other side of the warp point he would have to go through to get out of the system, and set them to blow up anything that warps into the next system. 1) This would still protect him from gaining any more info. 2) Since he had not been in contact with you for a time, it would insure there was not just some error. 3) And it would keep you from being a pirate. 4) There by making him the 100 % aggressor, With no excuse, and still covering your rear. So the answer is NO, if I had been talking to him, I would not of blown up his fleet. The 9 more ships, were too small to worry about, 9 battle ships, would be different, but some probes and survey mk III ships.<BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID, NOT> You asume that there is only one warp point into the Scanners realm. Maybe there are more. Personally i consider breaking an agreement as an act of war. If you agree on one ship there should be one ship. And no, they cannot blow much apart but they can map the way for bigger ships. If those nine ships would break up in little fleets it is almost impossible to catch them. Also keeping silent is a big red flag that there is something wrong. If his mail did not work he could have posted something here. He did not. His own fould i would say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Carpenter Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 Mister Bates, Are you truly trying to get us all to believe that if you told someone not to bring more than one ship into your territory and they then moved as many ships as they wanted to inot your territory, without any contact or responding to your inquiries that you wouldn't find this justifiable provocation. Are we to truly believe you are that much of a fool? First Citizen Anastasia Really? Let me tell you a 100% non aggressive way to solve this problem. Leave the ships that you can destroy the fleet with on the other side of the warp point he would have to go through to get out of the system, and set them to blow up anything that warps into the next system. 1) This would still protect him from gaining any more info. 2) Since he had not been in contact with you for a time, it would insure there was not just some error. 3) And it would keep you from being a pirate. 4) There by making him the 100 % aggressor, With no excuse, and still covering your rear. So the answer is NO, if I had been talking to him, I would not of blown up his fleet. The 9 more ships, were too small to worry about, 9 battle ships, would be different, but some probes and survey mk III ships.<BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID, NOT> You asume that there is only one warp point into the Scanners realm. Maybe there are more. Personally i consider breaking an agreement as an act of war. If you agree on one ship there should be one ship. And no, they cannot blow much apart but they can map the way for bigger ships. If those nine ships would break up in little fleets it is almost impossible to catch them. Also keeping silent is a big red flag that there is something wrong. If his mail did not work he could have posted something here. He did not. His own fould i would say. Geez, I guess I must accept the mantle as the Number 1 Peacenik, IE White hat. I did not see that coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krelnett_of_Kraan Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 We would happily vote to declare the AKO outlaw. But then, we don't believe in arming our starships beyond what is necessary to avoid the occasional stray asteroid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.