Outlaw Empire

[Kurassier]

I've read all the above, and here is my humble opinion.

First, Unless and until the matter (any act of aggresion/piracy/whatever not just this incident) is brought to the attention of the Senate and an investigation requested, the Galactic Senate should not be involved.

Second, the above is certainly NOT a criticism of Mr. Carpenter bring it up. In fact, I think it should be the policy of the Galactic Senate to answer any and all reasonable inquiries of non-members.

So that being said, we should have a policy of investigation, and I propose the following to the Galactic Senate:

 

"Once any incident between two or more empires, where at least one of the empires involved is a member of the Galactic Senate, is brought to the attention of the Galactic Senate an Investigation Committee (hereinafter 'Committee') of three Senators shall be appointed to investigate the incident.

The Committee shall investigate the incident in question and review all material/documentation/etc. provided to determine if any action should be taken by the Galactic Senate. The Committee members are authorized to initiate their own investigation and requests for information. All Galactic Senators shall comply with any and all reasonable requests of the Committee. The Committee shall submit a recommendation to the full Galactic Senate, which shall be voted upon by the Galactic Senate if the Committee is recommending that action be taken. All votes of the Galactic Senate require two-thirds approval of all Galactic Senators, with an Abstain vote counting as a non-vote. The recommendation of the Committee needs to be the unanimous opinion of the Committee before being submitted to the full Senate. Should the Committee make a finding that no action need be taken, or that the Galactic Senator(s) involved are blameless then that report should be made to the Senate and no vote will be required.

-Selection of the three Committee members: The first Investigation Committee shall consist of the first three empires that joined the Galactic Senate. Thereafter, each Committee member shall appoint another Galactic Senator for the next Investigation Committee. This shall be done at the close of their report to the Galactic Senate, or upon the beginning of a new investigation, whichever comes first. No Galactic Senator shall serve on a second committee until all Galactic Senators have served or are serving on a committee. The same shall apply to each subsequent 'round' of appointments."

 

I specifically did not define 'incident', as I believe we should investigate any claims.

 

Alcorn the Honored One

Sabeli Ecok, #2996

[The Benthis Collective]

We second the proposal by the Right Honorable Alcorn.

 

Senator Logion, 4579

[ali-t-akua]

I am making sure no one in the GS blames him, as Older messages suggest, blowing up people is a bad thing. I am making sure the precident is set. We will see what happens when a non GS member blows up ships that are considered to be dangerous scouts.

 

I agree. The precedent has been set but frankly this result is common sense. Also all precedent relies on the facts in the specific case. A different set of facts, a different result. Frankly until the Phoenix Empire shows up and shares their side of the story, I cannot and will not condemn the Senator involved.

[The Colony]

Esteemed Senator -

 

We will bring this action to the attention of the Senate. Please hereby understand that Queen Mother wishes this action discussed. We voted against the anti-piracy law because We felt that the law would never be enforced and that it would only cause problems when a Member Empire was the agressor. Again We were overruled thereby opening this situation to the public.

 

Comments from our Queen Mother point out the following:

 

1. The Anti-Piracy law that was passed states attack without provocation.

2. The story (as written by one of the concerned empires [thereby making the story at least somewhat firsthand) actually implicates said empire.

3. The IMperial Diplomat on board the fleet was concerned about the perception of the action to the extend he desired another fleet to instigate the attack.

4. The other fleet did not open fire.

 

Here are our concerns as a member of the Senate. We have experienced One Way warp points. A possible action was that the Phoenix Empire's fleet went through the one way and ended up in the aformentioned location. They did not conduct hostile actions and their fleet did not have combat ships. They were attacked. By the letter of the law there has been an act of "Piracy".

 

Of course this will be discussed and debated thereby proving that the GS will not be a body with any muscle.

 

Queen Mother

[Moonshadow]

I've read all the above, and here is my humble opinion.

First, Unless and until the matter (any act of aggresion/piracy/whatever not just this incident) is brought to the attention of the Senate and an investigation requested, the Galactic Senate should not be involved.

Second, the above is certainly NOT a criticism of Mr. Carpenter bring it up. In fact, I think it should be the policy of the Galactic Senate to answer any and all reasonable inquiries of non-members.

So that being said, we should have a policy of investigation, and I propose the following to the Galactic Senate:

 

"Once any incident between two or more empires, where at least one of the empires involved is a member of the Galactic Senate, is brought to the attention of the Galactic Senate an Investigation Committee (hereinafter 'Committee') of three Senators shall be appointed to investigate the incident.

The Committee shall investigate the incident in question and review all material/documentation/etc. provided to determine if any action should be taken by the Galactic Senate. The Committee members are authorized to initiate their own investigation and requests for information. All Galactic Senators shall comply with any and all reasonable requests of the Committee. The Committee shall submit a recommendation to the full Galactic Senate, which shall be voted upon by the Galactic Senate if the Committee is recommending that action be taken. All votes of the Galactic Senate require two-thirds approval of all Galactic Senators, with an Abstain vote counting as a non-vote. The recommendation of the Committee needs to be the unanimous opinion of the Committee before being submitted to the full Senate. Should the Committee make a finding that no action need be taken, or that the Galactic Senator(s) involved are blameless then that report should be made to the Senate and no vote will be required.

-Selection of the three Committee members: The first Investigation Committee shall consist of the first three empires that joined the Galactic Senate. Thereafter, each Committee member shall appoint another Galactic Senator for the next Investigation Committee. This shall be done at the close of their report to the Galactic Senate, or upon the beginning of a new investigation, whichever comes first. No Galactic Senator shall serve on a second committee until all Galactic Senators have served or are serving on a committee. The same shall apply to each subsequent 'round' of appointments."

 

I specifically did not define 'incident', as I believe we should investigate any claims.

 

Alcorn the Honored One

Sabeli Ecok, #2996

I am wondering what is required to consider an Incident brought up? Did not Gill Bates bring up the incident? Or is more required? Or can only a GS member bring up stuff?

 

I am glad we Pirates have the nice clear Code to follow.

 

 

 

 

[Octus Imperium]

The Pirate's Code is more like a guideline....

 

Paar-Laay anyone?

 

Octus

[Kurassier]

I am wondering what is required to consider an Incident brought up? Did not Gill Bates bring up the incident? Or is more required? Or can only a GS member bring up stuff?

 

As indicated in my proposal, the incident just needs to be brought up BY ONE OF THE empires involved. It does NOT have to be a Galactic Senator who brings it up. The incident just has to INVOLVE a Galactic Senator. It was written this way, so that we won't bother ourselves with an incident between two non-members. That is not our concern. And, since a Galactic Senator who is in violation of our bylaws is not likely to bring up such an incident, the proposal as written allows a non-member to report.

As far as an 'incident' definition, I specifically mentioned that it was not defined, as to allow any matter involving a Galactic Senator to be brought to our attention. This may result in the Galactic Senate reviewing frivolous or trivial matters at times, but I would rather do that than ignore something more serious.

[looker]

Esteemed Senator -

 

We will bring this action to the attention of the Senate. Please hereby understand that Queen Mother wishes this action discussed. We voted against the anti-piracy law because We felt that the law would never be enforced and that it would only cause problems when a Member Empire was the agressor. Again We were overruled thereby opening this situation to the public.

 

Comments from our Queen Mother point out the following:

 

1. The Anti-Piracy law that was passed states attack without provocation.

2. The story (as written by one of the concerned empires [thereby making the story at least somewhat firsthand) actually implicates said empire.

3. The IMperial Diplomat on board the fleet was concerned about the perception of the action to the extend he desired another fleet to instigate the attack.

4. The other fleet did not open fire.

 

Here are our concerns as a member of the Senate. We have experienced One Way warp points. A possible action was that the Phoenix Empire's fleet went through the one way and ended up in the aformentioned location. They did not conduct hostile actions and their fleet did not have combat ships. They were attacked. By the letter of the law there has been an act of "Piracy".

 

Of course this will be discussed and debated thereby proving that the GS will not be a body with any muscle.

 

Queen Mother

Colony, Are you a PA member?

If you are not, does it not bother you that you are apprently the only non-PA member to even concider that the fairy tale presented was in fact a confession.

The scouts were so easy to kill because they were in fact not scouting, just sitting still waiting for their diplomat to talk to the host diplomat. The host diplomat was only talking to his military, KILL KILL KILL! Then he has the gall to complain that another diplomat will get credit for aquiring a neutral. Maybe the other diplomat was flat out a better diplomat. Clearly, this diplomat is a loose cannon ( KILL,KILL, KILL!) That is why decent empires have separate corps of diplomats and naval officers.

 

mho

[Arnold]

We see that the Pirate's Alliance (PA) is so wimpy that it needs the Galactic Senate to resolve a border incident!

 

And we see that the Phoenix Empire is too ashamed to come here himself so he sends in others to do his complaining for him.

 

As it has been pointed by many esteemed Senators, you guys don't exactly have a good reputation. If only half of the rumors are true, nobody would trust any of you.

 

No inquiry needs to occur because you guys already qualify as pirates.

 

Grow up. You only lost a few scouts. Next time, either deal honestly, or bring something more than a 10cm autocannon to a war.

 

-Arnold

[Gary Carpenter]

We see that the Pirate's Alliance (PA) is so wimpy that it needs the Galactic Senate to resolve a border incident!

 

And we see that the Phoenix Empire is too ashamed to come here himself so he sends in others to do his complaining for him.

 

As it has been pointed by many esteemed Senators, you guys don't exactly have a good reputation. If only half of the rumors are true, nobody would trust any of you.

 

No inquiry needs to occur because you guys already qualify as pirates.

 

Grow up. You only lost a few scouts. Next time, either deal honestly, or bring something more than a 10cm autocannon to a war.

 

-Arnold

OK, ET

[Gary Carpenter]

We see that the Pirate's Alliance (PA) is so wimpy that it needs the Galactic Senate to resolve a border incident!

 

And we see that the Phoenix Empire is too ashamed to come here himself so he sends in others to do his complaining for him.

 

As it has been pointed by many esteemed Senators, you guys don't exactly have a good reputation. If only half of the rumors are true, nobody would trust any of you.

 

No inquiry needs to occur because you guys already qualify as pirates.

 

Grow up. You only lost a few scouts. Next time, either deal honestly, or bring something more than a 10cm autocannon to a war.

 

-Arnold

 

 

Board Troll

***

 

Group: Members

Posts: 776

Member No.: 84

Joined: 4-July 03

 

Have you read the Preamble to the Senate Charter? Sorry for taking the statement literally!

 

 

GALACTIC SENATE PROPOSAL and CHARTER REQUIREMENTS

 

PREAMBLE

 

WE THE SENTIENT RACES OF THE UNIVERSE COMMIT

*to resolve territorial disputes among member empires

*to abide by the Galactic Bylaws

*to maintaining open communication to all sentient empires through public broadcast

*to pass bylaws designed to promote peaceful exploration and prosperity among member empires

 

AND FOR THESE ENDS

 

*to unite our leadership to maintain intergalactic peace and security through the Bylaws

*to enforce the bylaws ratified by the Galactic Senate

*to recognize the sovereignty of all member and non-affiliated empires with the exclusion of their obligations to the Galactic Senate

[Azuth]

Boy, I'm glad I'm not part of any of your groups. That's too much reading and discussion and clutter of the galactic communications. My philosophy is much easier to deal with. Shoot first and if they're still alive....shoot again. :lol:

[T'Lariss]

I find myself in an odd position. I have no faith in either the PA or the GS yet find mysel in agreement with the head of Macrohard. If the stated purpose of the Senate is towork on border disputes before they come to war then the senate should do just that. in this case there is an obvious Border problem and the Senate shuld do what it was designed to do and attempt mediation of the problem. Especially if one of it's members is involved.

This looks to me like it is the perfect occasioon for the Senate to strut it's stuff and attempt a mediation. If the Phoenix empire proves false they will reviel the character of that Empire (and in part of that alliance). IF the Galactice Senate huddles behind an "us Vs. them" attitude than it will reviel them as just another alliacne.

If the story of the fleet attack is accureate in it's salient points than there was justification, but I admit to having heard only one side of the story and am interestind in hearing from the other side

 

Witch-King T'Lariss the Great

[AKO]

I am also very interested to hear the Phoenix empire's arguments, but that's one of the main problems: in the beginning there was communication, the last 5 cycles there was none.

 

The other issue was: we agreed that Phoenix empire would send one (1) ship. There came 9. That was a clear violation of an agreement. I am interested to hear how others that qualify my actions as piracy, would have responded.

 

Please consider the following facts:

1) Phoenix empire arrived via a one way warp point into URS space

2) We agreed it was URS space

3) I stated that I had security concerns about Phoenix empire scouting.

4) We agreed that Phoenix empire would stay at the point of entry and not move until URS had found a way back to Phoenix space. There was and is no other contact as yet at any other location between our empires.

5) We agreed that Phoenix empire would send 1 ship with a diplomat to negotiate a political agreement

6) We then proposed a non agression pact (the diplomat had not yet arrived).

 

This proposal was met with silence and there has been no communication since, although I attemted to re-establish contact (email).

 

7) Unannounced 9 ships appeared, of which 7 were clearly recognisable as scouts, with names like "FS WARP-MK3" and "FS Warp2A".

8) This entry is a clear violation of the agreement mentioned above at item 5)

9) In the first step (order 1-priority 1) of the new cycle my 1st defense fleet moved in to catch them before these scout would move.

 

My main concerns were that if Phoenix empire would split his forces into 10 different fleets, it would be very difficult to track them down, and he would gather sensitive information near my home world.

 

For those critisising my actions as piracy, please explain what you would have done and why that would have been better. Please do consider my security concerns in your response. If you do not see 10 explorers scanning your space as a security concern, please explain why.

 

Kind regards,

[Clan Elder 'Keen]

AKO, I would not get too distracted by the huffing and puffing of the Phoenix Alliance. They apparently have some interest in the matter. And after getting caught by your prudently placed safeguards, now there is an attempt to sow confusion on the political front and to make you look the aggressor.

 

I would expect more silence in private, more obfuscation in public, and more fleets coming through that warp point.