Kurassier Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 Aren't these two separate incidents? What are the rules of procedure and evidence that will govern these inquiries? Very well may be. I was just responding to the prior comments. I believe it is the Committee's job at this time to investigate and report to the full senate. The Committe members may do whatever they wish to investigate. I would presume that the Committee will request information from those involved and the cooperation or not of those empires will, I'm sure, affect the decisions of the Committee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
looker Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 On some planets room temperature is very cold indeed! :lol: Senator Perota Boo Consulate, 1006 Great Quote/Response Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 Honored Senators here is our claim. We entered into a peace agreement with your esteemed senator. The agreement was as follows: 1. Deliah to be neutral space 2. Eyre to not conduct war operations in Deliah and to not WARP into one system leading from Deliah. 3. GS Senate member to provide PMAP/GEO/CSV of systems/orbits in Deliah Means of Communication were to MadMartinB@yahoo.com (several emails from said Senate empire still reside on yahoo server so communications were in place) Eyre was providing PMAP etc for 2 of the bodies in system (more than 10) and then communication ceased in March/April of 2004. Eyre build and moved several war ships (non NTWD) from home system to Deliah (6-10 systems out) to guard frontier because of lack of communication. Eyre moved to cover warp point egressing to senate space. Senate ship conducted movement and was attacked. Eyre claims that Senate member has violated their portion of the Quid-pro-quo agreement (I do this and you do this) and thus nulls and voids the agreement making Eyre valid in the case that Senate empire has decided to violate an agreement. End of Transmission Best wishes Eternus... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted September 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 As one of three of the initial committee, I will be happy to commence the investigation once the other two Senators check in. As for procedure, I am going to suggest that we proceed privately to encourage open exchange of information. I am also going to encourage every committee member to maintain confidentiality about the proceedings. I envision a series of emails betwen the parties. Procedures could be made into a Bylaw and if a Senator were gracious enough to provide some....(I'm pretty busy and wil lbe out of town the next weekend...I know it seems like I LIVE here :lol: but even the least wary of the boards would notice I've posted far less than I usually have time to ) I have promied MMB privately that I will act impartially despite my personal remarks, and renew that intention here. Suggestions from the Senate are always welcome and encouraged. With that said, I think we can wing it just fine (exchange emails, etc) What worries me is that the only way to prove anything is by looking directly at PDFs. How can we get around this? Who in their right mind would want to share that information even with an oath of confidentiality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krelnett_of_Kraan Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 Why not look at just the critical portions of the PDF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 PDFs would do nothing since my claim is that Valkor failed to live up to his side of an agreement. Perhaps the committee could ask Valkor if he agreed to provide information and then if he did wether he lived up to that part of the bargain. PDFs would show nothing of that...and of course it would be my word against his but we will see how honorable Valkor is. I'm fine with him saying "I screwed up" and "I'm going to kill you pirate scum" in the same sentence....I just want it to be known that he did not live up to his side of an agreement thus starting a war and that his alliance is based on me being a agressor. If he has defensive pacts they should not kick in.... best wishes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshadow Posted September 11, 2004 Report Share Posted September 11, 2004 MXC INDEED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galactic Enquirer Posted September 12, 2004 Report Share Posted September 12, 2004 As one of three of the initial committee, I will be happy to commence the investigation once the other two Senators check in. As for procedure, I am going to suggest that we proceed privately to encourage open exchange of information. I am also going to encourage every committee member to maintain confidentiality about the proceedings. I envision a series of emails betwen the parties. The Galactic Enquirer demands that the process be open and above board. Secret meetings and such are the bane of a free society, at least a member of the press should be present to report to the people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakarissa Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 That assumes that the people actually care........ Sakarissa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Benthis Collective Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Honored Members of the Senate, I would like to propose thr following: An Act to Provide for Procedures and Evidence in Senate Inquiries Whereas it is necessary to maintain the rule of law and the sanctity and dignity of the Senate; It is hereby resolved that there shall be a regularized procedure for all present and future Senatorial inquistions. All inquistorial panels shall consist of no less that three Senators and shall always consist of an odd number of Senators. Senators should never be judges of their own cases and should a conflict of interest arise which would prevent the impartial administration of justice, then the panel on its own motion or either party under inquiry may move for the recusal and replacement of one or more members. The plaintiff shall forward to the panel and the oppossing party an opening statement with legal argument and documentary evidence which may include any relevent evidence. After a reasonable time the defendant shall respond to both the panel and the plaintiff with a rebuttal and legal argument and any relevent evidence. Thereafter the Panel shall foward to the parties any and all questions and or requests for more evidence or for clearification of arguments. Finally each party shall provide the panel and each other with final arguments but no new evidence. The panel will then break and deliberate in secret. A final report will then be presentated to the Senate as a whole detailing the findings of the panel and recommending a course of action. A simple majority shall decide all ancillary matters before a particular panel and any and all motions brought by the two parties. Deliberations shall be open unless a party moves to the contrary. A database of panel decissions and recommendations shall be archved for future reference, but their shall be no rule of precedence. The sources of law employed by panel shall consist of the laws of the Senate, intergalactic custom (common praxis + opinio juris), and natural reason. Senator Logion, 4579 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMartinB Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Honored Senator. We your Galactic Senate members accusations so that we may rebut them. Since we are the defendant (his actions led to this war and he has declared us a "mean and nasty" empire) we anxiously await what kind of documentation he provides... Again we stand by our claim that we were forced into this conflict by the spurious actions of a Galactic Senate member who did not live up to the creed and manifesto as explained by your learned body. I apologize in advance for having provided my legal rebuttal prior to the charged being brought forth by the aformentioned empire but we were not aware of the protocol as clearly articulated by you after our rebuttal. We hope that our rebuttal stands (we can of course repeat it) as our rebuttal to the charges brought forth by your GS empire. As a recap for those new to these hearings the Eyre were slandered and accused by a Galactic Senate empire. The accusation stands that the Eyre (in their piratical nature - and we do protest this since we are scientist) did cause this war through a causi bellum in the Deliah system. The Eyre has rebutted this by stating that the plaintiff did not follow Galactic Senate protocol and did violate their treaty with the Eyre High Command. The rebuttal still stands after 21 days with the Galactic Senate member refusing to answer the rebuttal and instead hideing behind discussions and poorly crafted historical antidotes from some bizarre alternate universe (Earth? we have never found that system). Honored Logion would 21 days of refusing to answer my rebuttal be consituted as an admission of guilt. Our only defense is to ask the following simple questions: Did you agree to provide information on the Deliah system as part of your peace agreement with the Eyre? Did you stop providing this information? Reasons for the second are immaterial. My accuser is a Galactic Senate member and has accused me of foul play and treachery. Numerous other Galactic Senate members have defensive agreements with said empire and have been called up to wage war against me. We stand by the fact that we are not the agressor and in fact the defender and WE EXPECT a public apology from those empires who unjustly accused me of foul play. We doubt that they will be "men" enough to stand up and admit to their errors and thus we will continue to defend ourselves. Again..senator Logion, thank you for your defense of my position in your articulation of the procedures of this esteemed body and we await the counter argument to my rebuttal. High Command of the Eyre Empire (the peaceful empire) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Colony Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 OOGC (out of game context) We would request that the panel members state their player names in order to prove they are not part of either side. We would have to abstain from being on the panel since we "do not have any knowledge of the player named MadMartinB" but we would be concerned to see who is playing which empire so that some form of neutrality is maintained. Martin Proud member of the Galactic Senate Feared Ostrich Leader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKO Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Gary, Why do you want to draw us into the debate? There is not even a plaintiff, and I have already come to an agreement with the said empire. Kind regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Benthis Collective Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Honored Senator. We your Galactic Senate members accusations so that we may rebut them. Since we are the defendant (his actions led to this war and he has declared us a "mean and nasty" empire) we anxiously await what kind of documentation he provides... Again we stand by our claim that we were forced into this conflict by the spurious actions of a Galactic Senate member who did not live up to the creed and manifesto as explained by your learned body. I apologize in advance for having provided my legal rebuttal prior to the charged being brought forth by the aformentioned empire but we were not aware of the protocol as clearly articulated by you after our rebuttal. We hope that our rebuttal stands (we can of course repeat it) as our rebuttal to the charges brought forth by your GS empire. As a recap for those new to these hearings the Eyre were slandered and accused by a Galactic Senate empire. The accusation stands that the Eyre (in their piratical nature - and we do protest this since we are scientist) did cause this war through a causi bellum in the Deliah system. The Eyre has rebutted this by stating that the plaintiff did not follow Galactic Senate protocol and did violate their treaty with the Eyre High Command. The rebuttal still stands after 21 days with the Galactic Senate member refusing to answer the rebuttal and instead hideing behind discussions and poorly crafted historical antidotes from some bizarre alternate universe (Earth? we have never found that system). Honored Logion would 21 days of refusing to answer my rebuttal be consituted as an admission of guilt. Our only defense is to ask the following simple questions: Did you agree to provide information on the Deliah system as part of your peace agreement with the Eyre? Did you stop providing this information? Reasons for the second are immaterial. My accuser is a Galactic Senate member and has accused me of foul play and treachery. Numerous other Galactic Senate members have defensive agreements with said empire and have been called up to wage war against me. We stand by the fact that we are not the agressor and in fact the defender and WE EXPECT a public apology from those empires who unjustly accused me of foul play. We doubt that they will be "men" enough to stand up and admit to their errors and thus we will continue to defend ourselves. Again..senator Logion, thank you for your defense of my position in your articulation of the procedures of this esteemed body and we await the counter argument to my rebuttal. High Command of the Eyre Empire (the peaceful empire) Eryian Sophist! Wait your turn. I am not "lucky" enough to sit on this panel. I would recuse myself in any event since by treaty the Collectivity now regards your band of brigands as a hostile power. I have put forward a resolution which must be voted upon by the whole Senate. No one has even seconded it yet. If it passes then we will have a procedure. It is up to the panel to indulge your lack of respect for the rules of right order. Senator Logion, 4579 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Benthis Collective Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 OOGC (out of game context) We would request that the panel members state their player names in order to prove they are not part of either side. We would have to abstain from being on the panel since we "do not have any knowledge of the player named MadMartinB" but we would be concerned to see who is playing which empire so that some form of neutrality is maintained. Martin Proud member of the Galactic Senate Feared Ostrich Leader For the record, the Collectivity declares war on the Colony, Senate member though it be. Not only did the Colony breach its sacred treaty obligations to the Collectivity when it violated the old GSL charter, but the Collectivity's intelligence services have sufficient reason to believe that the Colony harbors and aids terrorists and pirates, to wit the Eyrians. We have stated this publically for all the galaxy to hear so that history will not call us hypocrits when we do what justice demands. Senator Logion, 4579 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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