Prospective Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 I believe I have an understanding of how to get to Improved Stripmines and Improved Ind Complexes. Can anyone share what research pre-req's are required for Advanced Stripmines and Advanced IC's? Also, lets say it takes x turns to get to improved IC's, then x+10 turns to get to advanced IC's (assuming you SRP your way there). Does it make more sense to hold on to the stockpiles of lumber and iron and use them to build advanced construction materials and advanced heavy machinery? Or, does it make more sense to use the stockpiled lumber/iron on building improved CM and Improved HM, build the Improved SM and Improved IC's and THEN use their output towards building advanced stuff? I'm trying to do some long term planning and am curious what others thoughts are... Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clan Elder 'Keen Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Improved CMs have other uses such as in Domed Cities or Orbital Crystal Refineries. No point in having the base resources in your stockpile when you can reuse the Imp. CMs so easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 My guess for advanced stuff.....double the requirements for the improved stuff? I havent seen any of it myself. Maybe some gracious soul who has somehow miraculously developed them can help out? I'm not so sure anybody has them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Let me just say that information on Advanced IC and Adv. Stripmines does not fall into the category of "freely given information". There has got to be some advantage for haveing played this game for over 2 years now. Never hurts to ask though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 As far as stockpiling resources goes - I would build all the improved IC's that you can while you can. When you get to the next level you can switch over and build those. You have so many standard industries that most will never be able to convert all standards to anything better, even if that was a good idea in the first place. However, I would never build any standard CM's for anything. Even early in the game you are bette off just scrapping some industry to get resources. JMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prospective Posted October 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 Well, I gotta try don't I Hobknob ? Anyway, to me, it would seem logical that you'd need to at a miniimum, have to research into the same fields that get you to improved SM's and IC's. Whether there is a "missing ingredient" in addition to that is of course possible (in fact, I'd guess probable). Also, my guess is that while it is possible to SRP your way to Improved SM/IC's, you have to go the "old fashioned" route to get to Adv SM/IC, even assuming you have enough SRPs banked. As far as conversion goes, why wouldn't you eventually reduce the amount of standard IC's and SM's on the HW? I understand that you can't use their recycled CM's to build Improved IC's and SM's (which require Imp CM's). However, you can use them on a number of other things too. And, that free's up POPS that could be used to run the Improved installations (or used for colonization purposes). I agree with the philosophy of not building additional CM's... save the steel/lumber for the improved versions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobknob Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 (edited) Generally speaking you would be reducing the number of starting industries. At first the biggest reason to lose industries is the need for more stipmines each time you get an industrial science boost. It is a very long project to try and convert your homeworld production over to improved industries and stripmines. In a lot of ways it can be a real waste of time and effort. If you convert 50,000 industries to improved it might take your full production for 20 turns give or take. At the end you can produce 25% more than you could before. That's really nice all things considered. Also at the end of this process you will have some 25M tons of standard CM's sitting around. Some of that will be used for colonies and other stuff but the majority will be sitting around. I have talked to folks who have between 15 and 20M of the stuff sitting around. Now if you don't try and convert your industries and only build enough to service population growth and colonization, you will need anywhere from 4M to 9M tons of CM's to handle all the growth and colonization. Less if you are paying the attrition price for colonization and less if you have taken less than average growth rates. After building enough CM's for yor growth you will still have another 15-20M tons of other stuff to use for war ships and defensive equipment. The payback time is so long that you may never get payed back. In addition, if you are found by somebody who isn't inclined to be neighborly you will really wish that you had 10-15M tons of ship stuff just sitting around to defend yourself with. Even with a 25% bump in production it will take you many many turns to get caught back up if you have devoted all of your efforts to industrial conversions. Rather long winded and may have missed the point entirely, but there it is. Edited October 29, 2004 by hobknob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternusIV Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 I agree with Hobknobs analysis 100% Building CM early on is pointless...unless you want to forego the whole Improved IC/SM thing maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Miles Avatar Posted October 30, 2004 Report Share Posted October 30, 2004 lets see. Im not sure what Advanced stripmines or advanced industrial complexes require but I would think they would require higher generation horizon techs and the assiciated advanced materials required to build improved ones. IMP stripmines required 3rd generation planetary science and the ability to produce IMP heavy machinery which in turn required the succesful research of 2nd gen industrial science. soooo if we extaplolate a bit you would need to research 3rd generation industrial science to be able to research advanced heavy machinery as well as researching perhaps 4th or even 5th generation planetary science to be able to build advanced stripmines. and of course you would need to be able to build advanced steel to build the advanced heavy machinery. Advanced Industrial complexes would be a bit trickier. IMP industrial complexes required 3rd generation civil engineering as well as 1st generation Cybernetics.. if you already know how you got 1st generation cybernetics then I would bet it would be just a matter of getting 2nd generation cybernetics which requires a slew of other horizon techs to aquire like Psychology, Civil administration, and Computer systems.. not to mention the higher gen civil administration. Of course i could be way way off but I dont think these higher tech complexes would have fallen too far off the original tech tree... my aplogies for the pun. One thing to remember.... While this path is nice its really for those races that really stink at colonizing. ie low birthrates and not enough CB to makes colonies worthwhile. those races that a great at colonizing would be better off colonizing thier homesystem and getting all thier resource requirements from mining. that in itself would free up your IC's, normal or improved, to build things straight away vice having to use those IC's to convert RR and then convert them again to the finished product!. If your race grows like cancer then you would bascially be able to have so much 'normal' production capability that your race would be just like the race with advanced complexes Now if your both a great colonizer and researcher then my hats off to you. Just make sure you get a nice burly trusted neighbor to help protect your assets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lostworlds Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 I started the game on turn one and cannot build improved stipmines yet. However, I find that I am now moving over 3,300,000 construction/improved materials per turn off my homeworld and this is not enough. I will have to increase this to keep pace with my growth off world. In a few turns, I will be able to build improved strip mines. This will increase my production by 18%. However, I find that I cannot build improved construction materials fast enough to replace the construction materials I send off world. My increase in production off world compensates for any losses. I think the game is very balanced for colonizers and brain blobs. Someone told me I would fall far behind in tech but this has not been the case either. Unfortantely, I am at war with two empires that have entered my space. Instead of colonizing which I love to do I will have to build some real warships. I have also discovered that I need to decide whether I am going to leave population with nothing to do until I get more advanced tech. One thing that may happen is that I might have to build regular construction materials in the future. It appears that my empire is balanced in that I do not recieve a new tech before the old one pays off. Richard Johns Lostworlds 1290 Currently at War with the Pheonix Arisen Alliance Onarri Hegemony 2417 The Crushbone Clan 4338 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Miles Avatar Posted October 31, 2004 Report Share Posted October 31, 2004 I rest my case... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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